Phyllis Chesler: “Did Second Wave Feminism Destroy Women? Nonsense!”

When you read Phyllis Chesler, you should be reminded that she was a major leader of the Second Wave Feminism movement, before she got skewered by her cohorts for refusing to be Politically Correct regarding things about which she is an expert who combines first-hand experience coupled with exhaustive dedicated research. This would include the subjects of Islamofascism, Honor Killings and other Sharia-Related threats which the current wave of Feminists-Turned-Politically-Correct refuse to acknowledge at the peril of  all women. She has continually risked her life and her livelihood because of it.

It’s not just about the Left.  The Far Right bedroom-meddlers skewer her too. You might recall that I called for a ban against any links to Pajamas Media on this blog–after they removed her column. You should refresh your memory here before reading any further.

Phyllis Chesler ticks off both sides daily for YOUR daughters who might be too busy making Haul Videos on Youtube to notice what is happening to the rights of women, bit by bit, piece by piece.

I just want you to understand that Phyllis Chesler thinks of what is best for women at her own peril. She stands alone because of it.  What does that tell you? There isn’t a person reading this who  shouldn’t wish we had fewer PC cowards and more Phyllis Cheslers Noticing What Is Really Going On, not only with women throughout the world, but right here in the USA.

Editor’s note: This post responds to Megan Fox’s “ Open Letter to Second Wave Feminists: You Failed”

Words fail me. Well—not really.

Megan Fox should think twice before dishonoring an entire movement because she disagrees with its position on reproductive rights and its analysis of marriage. My Second Wave generation of feminists bravely exposed the pre-existing epidemic of rape, woman-battering, and incest within families and we exposed the sexual harassment and sexual abuse of women at work and on the streets. We lobbied, demonstrated, counseled the victims of violence, and passed legislation to prosecute these formerly “secret” crimes—as crimes.

Where were the pro-family and pro-life forces? They certainly were not the ones who exposed abuse within the family nor did they work on the violence against women issues. They did not counsel girls who had been raped by their fathers, older brothers, male cousins—a far more common phenomenon than by strangers.

In addition, Second Wave feminists were the ones who first challenged the pornography industry and that of prostitution. We led the way. Many of us were “abolitionists” where prostitution and trafficking were concerned. We took these billion dollar industries on and despite great effort, even genius, we failed. Fox is right: Some feminists believed that pornography was a personal matter or a First Amendment right—but so did everybody else except for a handful of dedicated Christians with whom we worked.

My generation of feminists discovered that women were faking orgasms; that many men did not know how to please women—and that included their wives, mistresses, and paid sexual companions. We were interested in fairness in the bedroom as well as fairness in the marketplace. More important: We also pioneered the work against drug companies and the medication of both menstruating and menopausal women, which medication caused women to die from cancer. We did not embrace birth control; there was a very important argument that the late, great Barbara Seaman and the National Women’s Health Network (I am a co-founder) made against birth control.

Read more about what the Second Wave achieved that women today take for granted here. And don’t forget to leave a comment for the little piggies in the comment section.

******************

Megan Fox’s 1950s-inspired tirade and Phyllis’ response have stirred many thoughts in my mind, and I hope you don’t mind if I share them.

I’ll tell you who  I think “Failed”:  A nearly non-existent Third Wave who took their rights for granted. They took those rights for granted because somebody else stood in the rain and snow to give them those rights. Complacency: It’s the Enemy. But it’s the Friend of those who would love to continue the Whittling Away at the gains that were made by the Second Wave.

I can think of a number of times during the past two years when 20,000 “Third Wave” women should have appeared in force on the Capitol steps. Instead, what we saw were press releases and some comments that nobody with any power paid attention to, because if they did pay attention, Health Care “Reform” wouldn’t be the travesty it is today, the announcement that women really don’t need those mammograms that cost money, or even have to do breast exams (until they already have cancer) would have never DARED  be published, Stupak wouldn’t have even been a thought and Harry Reid wouldn’t have duped women with his fake Paycheck Fairness Act game just before election day–when he already had two full years to pass it easily. The Press would have never gotten away with the crap they pulled on Hillary Clinton,  because their lobby would have been barnstormed at the first hint of the filth coming out of the mouths of the likes of Chris Matthews, not to mention Keith suggesting that someone take her in a room and only he come out. I won’t even get into that pig Glenn “The Psychosis that is Chickdom” Beck.   

This is what a feminist looks like.

When the Second Wave made this country understand it was serious, a guy like Barack Obama would never have been calling female reporters Sweetie, nor would he have suggestively implied to two women that his phone was vibrating in his pants and it wasn’t really his boner, much less would he have made snide remarks discussing Hillary’s “Periodic” blues. He would have never told a female reporter covering the BP oil spill that he wanted to hear more about the tar balls she found in her bathing suit. His adolescent speech writer would have never shown up on the internet humping a cardboard-cutout of Hillary Clinton. Alan Simpson would have instinctively known he would be run out of DC on a rail for making his Tit remark.  These are NOT cute, funny, endearing things, ladies. These are erosive Signs of disrespect, disdain and  a belief that women are a man’s objects for his own amusement and pleasure–and they are not to be taken seriously except as an object of sexual jokes and pleasure. When this behavior comes from a President of the United States, shit rolls downhill into every facet of women’s lives, by degrees.  I just don’t know how else to put it.  What part of this are so many women having trouble understanding?  If you don’t expect respect, you won’t get any.

Truthfully, every second-waver I know instinctively knew Barack Obama was a pig who not only didn’t give a rat’s ass about women,  but actually didn’t like them much at all. If you aren’t convinced yet, I honestly do not know what to do with your Density Quotient. This is NOT What A Feminist Looks Like and he does not fear the power of women or their voting block one bit, else he would have never used their health care as a bargaining chip for votes. He did it because He Could and He Could because he has no fear or respect for the Third Wave’s ability to elect, re-elect or Un-elect, even though women do have that power by sheer numbers. You can bet that when he was planning his attack on women with the Stupak Amendment, he and his advisors said at least once with a grin, “Where else are they gonna go?“.  When they don’t see the power, they have no respect. This is true for every voting block.  He knows he’s Got Em because they let him get away with assaults on women’s rights and never really push back in a meaningful way,  in a way that matters to him.  Ditto for Harry Reid and Congress in general. For two years that party gave women exactly what again? The Lilly Ledbetter Act with the Paycheck Fairness Act stripped from it. A snowball in the summertime. It melts right in your hand. It’s as simple as that. If I had one hope for women today, it would revolve around a wish that they would stop giving Barack Obama and the Democratic Party continual free passes when they don’t stand firm on behalf of women as they have continually promised to do but have failed to do for decades.

The rest of the truth is, once the Second Wave took hold and made sure this patriarchy knew we weren’t just blowing smoke and we expected our rights to be respected, our politicians and media wouldn’t have even tried the crap they are pulling today. And the sexist pig ads we see on TV and in magazines wouldn’t have even been a consideration.  The Megan Fox’s were out there and I can assure you they weren’t calling the movement a failure. What IS a failure is the unwillingness of the next wave to be good, vigilant and forceful stewards after- the- fact. Women like Fox wouldn’t be acting like women who don’t follow their line are the reason for every social ill –and that their perfect utopian selves should be in charge of everyone’s lives, positions in the patriarchy and bedrooms — so that the far right can complete the circle of placing your bright daughters with awesome futures into the kitchen bearing as many children as possible–including,  if necessary, the “Make Lemonade” child of a psycho who decided to rape her one night.

For these people, this is all about abortion and birth control, and how they want you to live the life they tell you to live, and nothing else.  Their obsession with everyone’s sex life and personal life has gone past legendary and they see an opening: A HUGE opening given to them as a gift from comparatively complacent stewards known as the  Third Wave. The fact is, these people know that once they get control of women’s reproductive organs, they control everything about women, including their lot in life and their futures–a hallmark of organized religions in general.  I hate to clue anybody in on this, but Barack Obama knows this too. He has been far more hellpful to the far right than he has been to you. If 20,000 women didn’t show up to protest on the day he signed the Stupak Amendment, I don’t know when they ever will show up.

So, before anyone addresses the Second Wave, might I please point out that You Can’t Argue With Results. Results that saved plenty of women from a dominating patriarchy who viewed women as their servants. You can’t argue with results, but you can see results reversed by being complacent and imagining It Can’t Happen, while your detractors blame you for every social ill under the sun as proof of how awful you really are for not being what someone else demands you should be–just like the days Pre- Second Wave.

We are fighting Theocracies in other countries and we have our own theocrats seeking to rule our lives right here. That’s the Religious Right’s narrow focus as they try to shove their personal beliefs onto you until you toe their oppressive line carved by their religious views.  They no longer separate God’s Work from God’s Job. They try to do God’s job daily. Most women know this. However, it’s not just the far right doing this. No sir. While the PC Third Wave watches, smiles and nods, strong Sharia supporters with intentions creep. They creep into the White House. They creep into the universities. They creep you out. I really cannot understand how anyone can notice one clear threat to American women’s freedoms and not notice the other even more frightening threat. Do you believe Sharia law is compatible with the Constitution and that it should be considered in a court of law like it was in New Jersey, where a brain-dead judge ruled in favor of a husband who repeatedly raped his wife and pleaded innocent because of his religion? If you don’t, then you really need to rethink your complacency about placing religions and cultures from other lands before our own laws–which, imperfect as they are, at least  recognize that rape and violence against ALL women is illegal. The Second Wave fought repeatedly against lax laws on rape and domestic violence. Though these laws are once again not perfect, do the women of America really want to Undo what has been achieved for the sake of Political Correctness?

Ok, I know I’ve been going on and on and on, so I will leave you with this one thought: While all of this is happening around us, who do we see defending  the Second Wave and all women who want to make their own choices,  without a hint of Political Correctness? The Third Wave? Nope! Phyllis Chesler. If the inheritors of the work  of the Second Wave  were awake, people like Megan Fox wouldn’t even have an opportunity to pull this Pie In The Sky 1950s Father Knows Best crap, because she would be a gnat in the crowd. The inertia is glaring, and  to compound the problem, it’s spilling over to affect the lives and peace of gays and lesbians as well.

I do wish Women’s Right’s leaders would actually do something significant about all the sexism in this country that grows daily with blessings from our leaders on BOTH sides, from advertising to the media to Capitol Hill and the White House — because if they don’t, women can plan on watching the Megan Fox’s of this country turn their TVs black and white again while they watch Leave It To Beaver. Because the Democratic Party sure as hell doesn’t have any real interest in standing up for women. Never have they proven it more than in the past two years. Any woman who doesn’t see this by now deserves to be Megan Fox’s target. Women are on their own. They had best figure that out before it’s too late–and what they are doing now is not effective enough.

Please take heed, Third Wave, because you are losing – and both parties are helping to make that happen– together. I don’t worry for myself. I had my time. I would like to see the same opportunities for all women in the future, and quite frankly, I don’t wish “Starting Over” on any of them. The Second Wave was not a piece of cake. Cherish and protect what it gave you or give it  all up in the end.

Once again, I request that anyone who is considering contributing to this blog in the near future, please reroute your donation to Phyllis Chesler. Keep her going! There are plenty of people who are working very hard to make sure her work disappears from the net, both Left and Right.

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158 Responses

  1. Uppity, As a second waver, thank you. I went over to Phyllis’ column yesterday and after reading the comments was absolutely drained. It was as if I was back in the 60s – the hatred of women was laid bare – worse, the comments were made by adults who had not been in the trenches, yet did not appreciate that their existence was because a WOMAN decided to give birth. I am just happy that I don’t have more than 20 years left in this life, because Attwood’s distopian novel is coming to life, right before my eyes and not one of the third wavers recognize the danger. I have no regrets about my part in the march for equal rights, however to see these younger women incapable of recognizing the signs of their own oppression in anathema to me. To quote Santayana, “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it”.

  2. I’m afraid this is totally off topic, but I don’t know where else to go to ask.
    Does anyone know why pumapac.com has been disconnected? Has the censorship already begun? Is Murphy alright?
    I’ve been trying all weekend to get on that site and I’d just like to know what’s going on.
    Thanks.

  3. Dora I have no idea why the server is down but it could be a number of reasons, from a software problem to something sinister. I like to think it’s the first. I think I will send a couple of emails out and see if I can find out what’s up. Hang in there.

  4. I seem to have misplaced danceswithpumas’ email. I did email Murphy, hopefully I will hear something about the site being down, Dora.

  5. Dora, glad you asked that question. I was trying to get in, and got redirected to a Window message. Uppity, thank you for checking it out. I never comment there however I do read it, and I suspect there are many more like me.

    You and The Widdershins, and now SkyDancers are the only place I come out of hiding and comment. If I could not access you for a day – well, I don’t really need that wall outside the kitchen.

  6. Uppity,

    Thanks to you, I learned about Chesler and am now on her e-mail list. I agree. We need more Phyllis Chesler’s and less PC cowards. Women who believe that men and particularly, the men who advocate sharia law, ever want women to achieve their rightful place in society “beside” men as equals and not behind them as chattel.

    I applaud your giving her another venue to share her message with women. Until men, who do give a shit about women, “get off the sidelines”, which Hillary so appropriately said, we cannot stop the horrific treatment and injustices bestowed upon women by men everywhere.

    Until that day, we are indebted to you for making it possible for more people to learn of this courageous woman who speaks truth to power.

    You both are extraordinary, courageous women for doing what you do every day and I am proud to be a fan and supporter of you both!

  7. Sorry,for some reason my computer deleted the ending of this sentence above…”women who believe that men, and particularly those men who advocate sharia law, ever want women to achieve their rightful place in society “beside” men as equals and not behind them as chattel, are dangerously dillusional and will someday come to regret their silence.

  8. Thank you Kathleen. That felt good. I appreciate it.

  9. Thank you Uppity for trying to contact Murphy and find out what is going on.
    Obviously, many of us are concerned.
    I’m glad now that I posted the question.

  10. Dora, if I hear anything, I will keep you posted here.

  11. Why is it that the women who did not live through the 1950s want to go back there?
    Who would want to go back to
    Sorry , we are giving this promotion to a man you trained because he has a family to support.
    Why are you working when you have children, you should be home with them.
    You know you are just working for the extras you really do not need the job.
    Hey honey get the coffee while I use the idea you thought of at the meeting and get the credit.

    you have to a certain amount of living children before you can get any birth control pill.

    You have to have your husband’s permission to get you tubes cut and tied or even if you need it you need his permission to get a hysterectomy .

    Girls do not need funding sports teams in school, that is just for the boys.

    If a girl gets raped ,she had to be asking for it. How did she dress, what actions did she do to provoke it.
    If a girl gets pregnant, the slut can not finish school and sully our good kids. But the boy who got her pregnant needs the education.

    Father Knows Best and Happy Days were tv shows not real life

    I lived in that era, been there, done that and do not want the tee shirt.

    Many young girls are getting the wrong message today. They are not taught that if they do not respect themselves no one else will.
    Rights and respect are not granted, they are fought for and earned

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  12. Uppity – excellent post. Thank You!

    I, like HT, have been at Phyllis’ article since Friday and reading both Phyllis’ and Fox’s articles from where the most recent refers to.

    The comments, alone, are both an education and a jarring ride in a time capsule back to my earliest youth.

    I, too, started a post, but it was lacking some honest, candid substance on “pre-2nd wave life among the neanderthals and their dis-empowered little women” – along with some links to posts like YOURS.

    Thank you, again, as this has all been quite stirring and thought-provoking for me – on many levels.

  13. Helen, thank you for reminding me why I hated life back then. Father Knows Best – Pfffft. Leave it to Beaver – double Pfffft. I tried so many times to kill myself that I’m an expert at self immolation. My beloved brother – went the drugs route. He was brilliant. Today he’s a broken down old man. I canot believe that women and men want to return to a time where it was all a fantasy. Women were cattle.

  14. her, I started to write several times, then gave up. My comment would have been so vitriolic and insulting that it would not have persuaded anyone. I do not want to believe that woman gave birth to those cretins, yet there they are – Loud and Proud in their ignorance. Scum of the earth, and I really hope they don’t kiss their moms with their mouth. Bleeping arseholes, and I would suspect most of them are living off mom.

  15. HT
    I am sorry if I brought up bad memories for you.

    The rose colored glasses that many look through and think they see a time when life was perfect is just so wrong.
    There was never a perfect time in history
    The wise learn from the mistakes made and go forward trying to make things better.
    The foolish look back and do not see the truth.
    In looking back they can lose the good things gained.
    Right now many young women are being foolish.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  16. Helen, you are a wonderful commenter, and perhaps I needed a reminder of where I came from/ I’m constantly amazed these days about where we are going, and I’m constantly amazed about the stupidity of young people. My son tells me I’m being overzealous. My daughter is finally clueing in. She is expected to do the job of three people – two of whom were fired without a plan to replace them.

  17. Each generation lives through the
    Too Soon Old and Too Late Wise
    syndrome.
    Just hope that this one does not lose all the gains of previous generations and adds to the gains.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  18. I really don’t feel that too old, too late thing much. I had a good life. At least part of it was luck and the other part was making some decent decisions. Not that I never made some bad ones,I did. It’s just that I didn’t hang around dwelling on them and tried to fix what I could and live with what I couldn’t. We do make at least some of our own karma. I have always believed that. So I have no regrets and my age doesn’t bother me at all. I wouldn’t want to turn the clock back unless I could take my current knowledge with me. There was a time when I thought I should leave home while I still knew everything. lol. The older I got the smarter the generation before me got, isn’t that amazing?

    We have to learn the way we individually learn. Even if it means learning the hard way.

    The other thing is, you can’t tell people anything. Did you ever have a friend who was hooked up with someone you just KNEW was bad for her/him? but you knew instinctively if you mentioned why you felt that way, you risked a relationship and he/she was not going to listen. So you were forced to watch the carnage. And when the carnage was done, you Were There For Your Friend. I see wave 3 that way.

  19. Too late wise I might agree with- though I am with Uppity- I would not go back unless I could take what I have learned. And yeah- it was amazing how much my Mom learned in the years between my being 14 and 24- lol.
    What didn’t kill me made me stronger. And grateful I can share what wisdom I have gained with those of the younger generation willing to listen.

  20. I turned 18 in 1956 and on my birthday was no longer part of the foster system.Luckily a friend let me live with her family until I could go to work and find a apartment. At that time a girl living alone was looked at like a whore with no morals. You would be surprised at the “good” people who thought I was trash.
    Maybe I look at things a little differently than a lot of people because of my experience. I was made stronger and more suspicious of people telling me what is good for me. I study and learn before I commit to something and do not follow blindly .
    Everyone has inner strength and at some time in their lives has to use it.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  21. Some beauty to lighten up the day.

    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap101205.html

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  22. OK Your work is not in vain. Women from that site once they were assured that NOW does not represent US 2 wavers are asking where they can join up. They want to work on child abuse (read rape incest) and pay discrimination. I had to tell them there is no feminist movement right now but there will be one again (assuming no Apocalypse) and told them to come here and read until it happens. There are also some feminist males there – rough but still…. I told them to come here and read till PC’s new edition of MOT comes out.(March) Start thinking of names.Feminist Tribes ?(because there will be cell groups, affinity groups) shit I thought of one in a dream last night but I can’t remember it. I know the initials were FF — it has to have feminist in the title lest there be any doubt about who we are.

  23. And will Phyllis be Chief Advisor?

    And will the group agree that NO SHARIA is a huge goal? Because that is the major part missing in the 3rd and it is the antithesis of Freedom For Women.

  24. Phyllis got your donations people – she wants your emails which i do not even have – here is her message:

    This is very moving to me, and very heartening at this moment. Please thank them, send me their email addresses and I will be happy to do so myself. One is Paw…something? There is another one as well.

    With happy warmth,
    Phyllis

  25. Well I just got kicked off NRB for complaining about the moderated reply system -Susie Q said the comment section was not my personal litter box for complaints about their system and i said OK, I will leave your litter box.

    It is OK because PC got 150 comments which should help her out with the bosses over there. And the women looking for feminism know where to come if they are serious. Whew! That was a trip.

  26. FFW – Freedom for Women, hmmmm

  27. Yes, any new movement or re-energizement (is that a word?) of the old movement, would absolutely have to posit that women’s rights take precedence over any cultural belief in subjugation.

    On His44 some of the commenters seem to be suggesting that the pac’s disappearance may be intentional and not temporary. Well, that would be unfortunate if it’s true.

  28. Thanks Uppity – again you hit it out of the ballpark.

    I gave Phyllis a donation yesterday and have been on her email list to get her updates for some months.

    As a state NOW President I worked with third wavers. Two of them were outstanding and really “got it.” The rest wanted to know when they could be president and run the organization despite not knowing any NOW policy or any women’s history.

    As many of you know I was part of the team that tried to take NOW back from the likes of Kim Gandy, Ellie Smeal, et.al. It was one of the worst National NOW Conferences I attended. The level of name calling had reached unexpected heights and support.

    Although our team won and we installed Terry O’Neill, we didn’t realize how bad NOW really was. How could we since Kim had lied to us on a continual basis. The debts the organization owed were astronomical and the slide in membership was more than severe. Additionally the national board was lined up against Terry and her officers.

    The National NOW officers were unable to even get paid for months if not a full year because there was no money. The rebates mandated by policy and bylaw which were to go back to chapters and states were left unpaid for over a year. I do not know if those rebates have now been reinstated.

    Additionally, NOW has been catering to third wave feminists – “young feminists” for the past decade. These young feminists mostly don’t get what real feminism is – maybe in an intellectual fashion – but certainly not at a gut level. It’s hard to understand when you were born into a world with contraceptives and abortion available and when women could apply for any job. Where sexual harassment was illegal, etc. etc. etc.

    I have worked with Terry O’Neill in the past when she was the Membership VP of National NOW. I like her and she is a competent administrator. She is not a passionate leader – the sort that NOW needs. The woman who we all wanted to run for that position had developed severe health problems made worse by trying to get NOW to do more work for Hillary, to take a stand and having to buck Kim Gandy and her other officers. Eventually she took time off and went on the road for Hillary with several of the state presidents.

    I know this is a long post but I think it is important to know these things. Until NOW is totally destroyed and I mean legally no longer in existence, the organization will continue to pretend they represent women and the news media and the populace will consider them to be that also.

    NOW was a great idea and we accomplished much, but it no longer stands for those values so many of us fought for so long and hard. I believe the same is true with NARAL. They even went so far to endorse Barry before the primaries ended after all Hillary had done for women. Ditto Emily’s List, the Feminist Majority. Thanks for listening to my rant.

    Fredster: TPTB means The Powers That Be.
    I’m hoping that my cats live another ten years or more. I think by then I won’t have enough energy to caretake even a pet. But who knows stranger things have happened.

  29. Senneth

    what do you think – take NOW back or start over — I respect you tremendously for your work and enjoyed the long post — actually all the people of Uppity are like a gold mine – and i gave PC your name as a contributor.

  30. I’ve been worried that the bad economy will be an opening for the 1950s-pushers. I don’t believe that women who are established in their careers will bend, but the younger ones in high school, college – if the messaging gets too strong that it’s so wonderful to be taken care of and not have a career, when combined with the dismal economic reality, many of them may fall prey to that regressive kind of thinking.

    Not that there is something wrong with a stay at home mom, but it has to be a free choice, and a woman has to understand that she needs education and a healthy, strong personality, so that if she is one of the more than half that get divorced, she can take care of herself. Otherwise, we’re back to the place where women are having to stay in abusive relationships, or do leave, but either way they’re dependent (on the husband or the welfare system) and have no sense of self to fall back on.

  31. I don’t want to deal with all NOW’s financial problems –

  32. Oh I actually came to tell you about the miracle. I am here in my snow pants and PO boots and thermal underwear and polertec jacket and mitten and gloves and wool scarf dragging out the snow blower and pouring gas into it when who drives up but my old friend Bruce — can you believe i am now inside while Bruce and his friend are out side taking care of everything. There is a God and she loves me. now where did I put that chocolate money candy?

  33. Green I don’t envy you the snow, but you gotta admit it’s a little funny, you’re posting about women’s equality, and you just let the big strong men take care of you lol :)

  34. Hi Green,
    Thank you for your kind comments. We tried retaking NOW and go back to our roots. Unfortunately, one must also take over the national board and that is a state-by-state problem, as the board members are elected from regions.

    The reason NOW was so successfull in protests and rallies is because we were an action organization and we operated at grass roots levels through chapters and states. But you’re really only as good as your chapters and your states. They have to be strong. I don’t see that happening.

    Those of us second wavers are older. I, myself, had expected the younger generation to take over and build upon the work we’d done. I don’t believe that will happen.

    I dissolved my state organization rather than let the bots take it over and have it become an Obama mouthpiece. It was an extreme decision and had to be voted on by my state membership. Most state leaders won’t go that route.

  35. Senneth, thank you for the information on NOW, it explains a lot and it is heartbreaking.

    Lorac, the only people who want to return to the 50′s are those who didn’t live them first hand. I could regale everyone with so many horror stories that most would think I’m exaggerating, but believe me, no exaggeration. It was horrific. I first attempted suicide age 12. I just did not want to live – I didn’t know why I was born and had to live through that horrible time, but that crap that passes for nostalgia is just crap. I hated Donna Reed with a passion, same with Barbara Billingsley and Margaret O’Brien. .

  36. This is the next club they will hit women over the head with. I hope the 3rd generation is prepared.

    http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/12/participation-rate-of-25-to-54-age-men.html

    You are taking a man’s job and he has a family.
    You are just working for extras
    You should be home with the children.

    sound familiar?

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  37. we’re back to the place where women are having to stay in abusive relationships, or do leave, but either way they’re dependent

    Not we. They. We are not going to be in that position. Nor will I be in the position mentioned in that article about not taking a job away from a man in his family. THEY will. And THEY will have to deal with it. It’s up to THEM to refuse to be without choices. I can’t refuse FOR them and neither can you. And if they are too goddamned lazy to fight back, no skin off my nose. That’s how I feel. I am not up for taking shit from stupid little pissants who don’t even see a train when it’s coming at them because they are too busy texting and doing their hair.

  38. GREEN, if NOW has financial problems like somebody said, it’s because they can’t get the membership they need or the private support they need to exist. Why don’t you consider a survey? Also, I would imagine Marcia Pappas would be a great source of advise. I’ll bet she knows where plenty of bodies are buried.

  39. WOW Senneth! You helped flush Gandy out? I am awed!

    She brought NOW down. Sellout to the D party even if they pissed all over women.

  40. It’s hard to understand when you were born into a world with contraceptives and abortion available and when women could apply for any job. Where sexual harassment was illegal, etc. etc

    Well this will all be going away soon enough. Then they’ll “Understand”.

  41. helen, if men and women were paid the same for jobs, men wouldn’t be having such a hard time in the market. It’s called BACKFIRE. Companies will keep the woman because she’s cheaper. Tough Shit. Do something about it then. Or start working as cheaply as the woman sitting next to you had to and see how you like taking a financial hit to be “equal”.

  42. Yeah but big strong men who want to do the heavy lifting are totally welcome here and I am not even laughing.

  43. Anybody have any word on pumpac? I emailed murphy but no response.

  44. Uppity

    that Backfire analysis is deep and excellent

  45. Green, you’re a businessperson and you have 20 employees. Ten of them do the same job. Five of them get paid more for having a penis. You need to cut cost of labor. And you will do what?

  46. It’s a BACKFIRE straight out of the book of Karma. Men’s salaries are about to go down and everybody will be paid the same then.

    Karma. It’s a bitch.

  47. the same thing that I will do if I can have an illegal immigrant do the work for half of what I pay the woman

  48. uppity
    I agree with you about the salaries. The only place I ever got the same salary as a male was on the railroad. The pay is based on the job not who is holding it.
    But is much easier to blame the woman for taking the job then to admit they are hired because they work cheaper. It is a lot like hiring illegal immigrants, who are they going to complain to?
    Distract and point the finger of blame toward the women not the facts.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  49. ck your email – you made someone very happy

  50. Green, of course you would continue to pay the woman and lay off the men, but only if the woman is worth the effort. I used to work 60 hours a week, minimum. I was on the internet sending messages at 2 in the morning. If I had a business, I would want clones of me to work for me.

  51. I suddenly have “testing” “testing” in my blog comments — so chuck is on it.

  52. HT

    I definitely know what you mean — and dare I say it, from your comments I would want you to work for me also

  53. Hey Senneth, helen, et al, EVERYBODY….do me a favor. Go over to cheslers post I reference inthis post and make a few comments. And send some other people over. Without getting into too much detail, the more activity, the better on that post.

  54. Sorry Uppity, I tried to comment on Phyllis’ article, but could not. I notice Yttik is there blaming second wave feminists for excluding conservative women. Geez, you know, back in the day, I don’t recall asking anyone about their political bent. I suppose I did exclude conservative women by refusing to abide by their rules as exemplified by Donna Reed and those other women I indicated in a previous comment that I despised (not the women, just the roles) I guess I wasn’t all inclusive by allowing my hatred of men controlling my body to get the better of me, and excluding women who agreed with those men. Gosh, I’m an awful feminist. I should never have fought for a woman’s right to control her own body, after all, what is a body – some blood, bone and flesh. I should have just succumbed to the dominant males and submissive females – going along to get along. I should never have divorced a MAN. I should never have had a successful career, when there are cookies to be baked. I should never have had two children – bastards I think they call them, on my own and raised them by myself. I should have just been what these people want women to be – silent, in the background, unpaid slave.

  55. Thanks Uppity and HT. Will go to Phyllis’ site and comment.

  56. HT
    How could you not mop the floor in a dress and high heels and not have a hair out of place?

    I did go and leave comments.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  57. my favorite saying of all time was Anne Richards telling some one
    “Ginger Rodgers did every thing that Fred Astaire did but she did in high heels and backwards”

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE
    .

  58. HT

    HT

    Nobody excluded anybody — it is like i said there – these women who did not want to work – spoiled brats, just sat around criticizing the worker bees – First they said feminists were only white middle class women like that was a sin in itself and then it was not enough “diversity” yak yak yak All they do is talk and the deal is they divide women — feminism finds the common denominator – false feminists find fault just to feel special – they do this where ever they go AND THEY STOP THE WORK and leave destruction as their only accomplishment.

  59. Uppity,
    Can’t comment at the link to the article. According to WordPress they have a Senneth in their data base but they do not have my email address. I have tried to get an avatar and got the same thing. I’ve been using this name for some years now and have never noticed any one else using it.

    So wish I could comment to Phyllis but don’t know how.

  60. senneth

    same thing happened to me — i changed my name to 2roses

  61. SENNETH

    i used helenk1 when it happened to me

  62. helen, I could never quite figure out that high hells thing. Most of my working life involved pant suits and flats – fashionable of course. but bleeping expensive – a woman in pants – say it isn’t so.
    Green, I never excluded anyone who wanted to be part of putting women first, but in the past year, them there Palin supporters are coming out and accusing the older fems of excluding conservative women. It’s a bunch of hooey, cause conservative women never wanted to be part of the feminist cause. I don’t quite know what conservative women want, because I suspect that they don’t know what they want. I have given up being an activist because I am older and more jaded. I fought for the rights that are being eschewed today by simpletons. I fought against people like yttik, who came cloaked in reasonableness but with an underlying purpose. I’m tired, and I hope that the younger gen will take up the torch and move forward, because frankly, I’m tired of this sheite. I have my home, my children are grown (beautifully well rounded individuals) and I’m done.

  63. UW here’s your answer to the FLA orange problem.

    We live in a “world of nasty bacteria now,” says Calvin Arnold, a scientist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. An insect-borne bacterial disease that is ravaging Florida’s citrus crop means the juice squeezed from the Sunshine State’s fruit may soon come from trees that have had their genetic makeup modified.

    The blight, commonly known as “greening,” is the world’s most destructive citrus disease.

    GMO juice would likely be reviled by critics of the biotech industry as “Frankenfood.” But Arnold and other experts say there simply may be no other choice in the battle against greening.

    “It’s the most serious disease threat that the Florida citrus industry has ever faced,” said Arnold, a 67-year-old official with the USDA’s Agricultural Research Service.

    Welcome to Frankenoranges!

  64. Green my last email to you bounced and the mailer daemon visited me. I just sent another one, a different one, hope it makes it.

  65. Green please I am BEGGING you, do not make me work on a pissing contest by naming people personally. You KNOW the result and it is simply unfair to me.

  66. Senneth, just use another name.

  67. Well DE it figures. Monanto isn’t going to let oranges get a free pass.

  68. USDA, where an Obama appointed Monsanto person has planted his seed. Golly, what a shock.

  69. HT

    Bunch of hooey is right — and nobody has been excluded from the non movement – shitfly is coming out with a book that has all the lies and we cannot let them define anything — our answer is no one has been excluded — there is no movement because a cabal of women took over our orgs and bled them dry abandoning the organizing of the grassroots and accepting leadership from the grass roots — also we had to fight millionaire funded women like shitfly with no money of our own as for NARAL and PP they became corporate directed and some once leader were simply democrat party operatives which is different than feminists — DO not let them define the problem – you did not exclude anyone but recruited — what did the people who say we excluded do? What leg did they pass? Throw the questions back on them because believe me they were not there and they did NOTHING

  70. Green, seriously, if you had a WP blog and transferred all your posts with ONE button, you wouldn’t need to be at the mercy of some geek who tells you that if a person can’t comment on your blog it’s all their own fault and tough shit. WP is easy, and you don’t NEED any help. And if you need help SETTING it up, I’ll help you with a more pleasant attitude. When people read a blog and want to comment, they are not interested in ths story, they want to comment. If they can’t, they don’t bother doing it any longer.

    Countless people on this blog will tell you that they don’t even bother trying to comment on some blogs with that useless open ID that google wants to interfere with and snatch who you are and what your website is, whether you want them to or not.

  71. Funny, i don’t remember Phyllis Shafley being involved in the second wave. She was sitting on her ass somewhere. Now she’s an expert on it. How Shafley of her.

  72. Phyllis Shaffley was “involved” – she was fighting AGAINST us. I remember her.

    Flying around the country, telling women they should be home taking care of their children. No mention of who was taking care of HER children while she was flying around.

  73. Okay everyone, thank you. Will try Sennethtwo at the site.

  74. Isn’t Schafly the ancient non thinker whose son is gay?

  75. Flying around the country, telling women they should be home taking care of their children. No mention of who was taking care of HER children while she was flying around.

    Hahaha. Doesn’t it just figure. Do as I say…..not as I do.

  76. She should be thankful for the second wave. If it never existed she wouldn’t have been bankrolled by guys who wanted them broads harnessed and she probably would have been waiting on tables instead.

  77. She has a gay son?

    Don’t you just ADORE Karma?

  78. Well, I would say that conservative women were excluded in the sense that they wanted to push for no abortion, and the feminist women wanted pro-choice. Any of the other issues they MAY have agreed on, there was no working together, because of the abortion issue.

    IF (and I emphasize IF) the movement going forward wants the strength of the conservative women, when they work together they will have to focus on all the other issues affecting women, and leave abortion to groups specific to abortion, to somehow agree to disagree on that and work together on the other things. So, if people want all women to work together for all the other female issues, abortion can’t be the gatekeeper issue.

    If people need abortion to be a gatekeeper issue, then either it will just be the women on the left, or maybe both sides will have their own groups for the other issues, that don’t work together.

  79. Lorac, thanks for the reminder. She’s the one who made a mint on disparaging us. Now I remember! She roamed all over the media telling women that they were not abused, that their concerns should be limited to hearth and hubby. She also was anti gay to an extreme. Is she back? Jeebus, why don’t some people just fade away into obscurity with dignity.

  80. Yes, Lorac, if you tell me you want to be included in my circle but you don’t like what any of us think or want to do, and you plan to change our agenda, why would we invite you to lunch. So you could tell us where to eat, what to eat when we’ve already decided. I don’t join things I have no interest in or i don’t agree with. They aren’t excluding me. I am excluding them. So basically, don’t come to my house and rearrange the furniture because I’m going to throw your ass out. But don’t complain later when I never invite you again.

  81. lorac, abortion is not the be all and end all of feminism. Feminism is about having control over all aspects of one’s person which includes the sexual side of the equation. I would never have had an abortion, but I remember when young women went to back alley abortionists and died from complications. That should never happen- ever. If conservative women do not believe that women have the right to determine their own way forward, then they are not feminists, period.

  82. What I’m trying to say is, I think from their point of view, because “feminism” came to be equated with pro-choice, they were excluded.

    Of course, they could have started their own groups for fair pay, workplace childcare, etc, but they didn’t.

    I think it might be better if women from both sides were united in fighting for the other issues, if somehow we could agree to disagree on abortion (and let other women’s groups focus on protecting pro-choice). If women from both sides stood up to the male power structure, I think we’d have so much more leverage on all the other issues, and they couldn’t pit us against each other. I suspect the abortion issue/divide is the best weapon the patriarchy has against us.

  83. She was a big conservative operative for Barry Goldwater types before she found her niche hating women — always on the payroll of rich old men – always out in the world – never a homemaker – a cynical operative who knew where to get her bread buttered – the Eagle Forum — she was and is such a liar — the weird thing is how anyone falls for it but they all love phonies everyday one of their politicians, ministers, teenagers comes out but they march on ignoring reality. It is mostly the anti abortion crowd.

  84. HT she’s got her own crowd that will read her book, so she sees a way to make some bucks. Preach to your choir, make some bucks. Lots of people like that out there right now making a killing. People like her never change anybody’s mind, she just keeps harping to her choir and makes money doing it.

    I’ve listened to that pig Rush call me a feminiazi for decades, so who are the disparagers again.

  85. Yes Schlafly was very prominent against the ERA. I didn’t know that about her son and I’m laughing. Karma is a good thing.

    Well The New Agenda is currently taking on misogyny and not using choice as an issue, so there’s a place people can go to do some work.

    Two nuns helped found NOW and when NOW decided to become pro-choice they went away and others as well. When Rita Mae Brown forced NOW to address lesbian rights lots of folks left as well.

    We’ll probably be fighting for equal right until the end of time. For some reason we, women, are considered less than equal, and that’s okay with many of our gender.

    t I’m getting older and too tired to continue this fight. I also think I’ve done enough. Like you, Uppity, let the young folks fight for their rights which are going to go away because of their inattention and being coopted.

  86. but she encouraged the group “feminists for life” which was a group that never did anything feminist but speak about sacred fetus and bad feminists — that tactic got under my skin and I would go ballistic around anything that had to do with them – then I learned all I had to do is ask them to name their feminist achievements outside of being anti abortion

  87. Of course, they could have started their own groups for fair pay, workplace childcare, etc, but they didn’t.

    Too much work. And more fun to throw wrenches thru everybody else’s window. Listen, why waste our time on Shaffley, really. SHe’sbeen around for decades and has impacted nothing, seriously.

  88. one of them was a WI nun from alverno college –I think her name was Sister Jo-ell Reed

    Senneth – did you know Mary Jean Collin Robison from the Sears Action — the Chicago office

  89. lorac I don’t think women on both sides can agree on much of anything. One side wants your place known, no birth control, no abortion, stay home, raise the kids.

    And the other sides doesn’t want much of that. I say if that’s what you want to do, you should do it. Just don’t tell everybody else they have to do it.

    You don’t see pro abortion people running around insisting everybody get an abortion. What you DO see is anti abortion people interfering and insisting that you don’t get one. Cripes, I’ve seen clinicswhere they stand out there with statues of saints and photos of jesus and it’s just a ludicrous carnival. They are an embarrassment to themselves. I mean these people are very pushy and make DEMANDS that women do what THEY say They stand in front of dr’s offices where LEGAL abortions have been performed and insulted patients and bombarded them with their bile. SO exactly who are the feminazis again?

  90. Hey Green,
    I helped campaign for Mary Jean Collins when she was running for re-election to national office. That was before the “team” elections and individuals ran for office. I have a photo of me holding a Collins sign at the National NOW Conference in New Orleans back in 85. One of my friends was the campaign chair of Judy Goldsmith who was running for re-election to National NOW President.

  91. Green, they are One Issue people. Period. That’s why they are so well funded by men. Men know if they get control of your reproduction, the rest is easy.

  92. And the other sides doesn’t want much of that. I say if that’s what you want to do, you should do it. Just don’t tell everybody else they have to do it.

    I must have missed something. I’m thinking out loud. Where did I tell everybody else what they have to do?

  93. Agreed Senneth. I have little to worry about. The next gen has the problem. Let them deal with it. they will learn soon enough that you don’t ask for rights, you take them. They are yours and nobody has the right to dole them out to you at their pleasure.

  94. Basicallly, saying, “I don’t want to be like you so get out of my face” would go a long way.

  95. lorac I don’t think women on both sides can agree on much of anything. One side wants your place known, no birth control, no abortion, stay home, raise the kids

    I think that’s true of the bandleaders, but I think there’s a possibility that there are conservative leaning women who do have some agreements with feminist thought. I would guess that most conservative women are out in the workplace – regular women who aren’t the ones you hear from on TV – I would think they would also want fairness in pay, etc.

  96. No no no lorac. I was using You as the generic, not as in You-You.

  97. Well I’m off to the gym, will check back later. This has been a really stimulating thread.

  98. lorac

    absolutely not -no feminist group can

    ” leave abortion to groups specific to abortion,”

    but we can

    ” to somehow agree to disagree on that and work together on the other things.”

    You have within a feminist organization task forces specific to an issue women want to work on like trafficking but the organization has in its platform policies regarding freedom of reproductive choice and when an issue comes up that women want to work on, as in the NY disclosure law regarding the phony pregnancy counseling business , the org forms a task force on that as well. Anti choice women do not have to work there — one big org — many single issue campaigns.

  99. Green, they come in like lambs and then they muck up the entire organization like wolves.

  100. I would think they would also want fairness in pay, etc.

    Nope. The boys who fund them say No. Not ONE republican woman voted for that act. Basically, those people do NOT want women to be equal except in the religious sense. Go to one of those evangelical churches and hear the pastor tell you how women are the same but different. Then you get the pic. That and a woman is supposed to submit to her husband.

  101. I was reading one vitriolic post over at PC’s and there was mention of how women behaved as if they didn’t need men. Well they don’t, for Chrissakes. I don’t NEED a man. I CHOOSE to be with one. Nobody should be with ANYBODY out of need only. That’s the path to subjugation.

  102. Senneth —–I am screaming — she really used me a lot A LOT and I mean used — we probably knew each other — were you at the Karen De Crow NOW Conference where they were trying to get rid of her around her non support for the Sears employment action — I do believe that was the beginning of the end of NOW –

  103. Judy Goldsmith — so long since I have heard her precious name – blessings on her name

  104. Who are you talking about Green?

  105. I am finding it bizarre that we are in the year 2010, almost 2011, and women are still begging at the table for scraps. We’ve been around since the dawn of history, yet here we are, thousands of years later, still considered second class. We are the single, sole reason that the human race has continued, yet we are treated as afterthoughts. We are the majority of the human race, yet still we are treated like slaves. As mentioned before, I’m tired. Let the current gen fight for themselves over the very same rights we fought for forty years aso, and which through political expediency we are losing. On a good note, my geraniums that I brought in to try overwintering are actually putting out new sprouts and some of them are putting out blooms!

  106. the NOW wars Senneth and I it turns out were on the same side supporting the same women — it was the last gasp of those who were direct action organizers against what turned out to be the vultures — i don’t know what else to call them

  107. I just feel so frustrated. I can’t tell you how EXHAUSTED it made me feel to just READ those comments over at that site. We had those same arguments 30 years ago.

    On the one hand we’ve got the “third wave” which thinks feminism is about the freedom to be a prostitute and is totally clueless about the huge tidal wave of repression arcing just over their head,

    and on the other hand, we have a whole batch of conservative women getting elected into office, and thanks to BO, we have a lot of people moving to that side. And of course, all the women’s orgs enabled BO.

    And the economy sucks, and that’s going to feed into Donna Reed, dad bringing home the bacon, and mom staying in her place.

  108. HT

    When I started working you were not allowed to wear slacks in the office. In the winter we would wear slacks to and from work but change in the ladies room before going in to the office.
    It was after the horse and buggy days honest.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  109. they come in like lambs and muck up

    that is why you make them work in their own task forces — nobody just sits around and your by laws have a series of positions which cannot be changed without dissolving the organization and putting the funds in escrow

  110. helen. I remember those days. I could not wear slacks to school in the worst winter storms imaginable. My feel and hands have frozen because of the ridiculous rules about dress that I grew up with. Today, I cannot go out in the cold for very long, because once you’ve had frozen limbs, it doesn’t take long for them to freeze again.

  111. OO, OO, guys, keep your fingers crossed. Tomorrow I have an interview with a foster mom to see if I’m a suitable type to be a mom to Millicent – a beagle/spaniel cross. Just got off the phone with the foster mom. My son will kill me, but tough noogies for him.

  112. HT, what happened with Annie? The foster parents didn’t want to do a phone interview….?

  113. Green, i want some of what you are having. Anti Abortion people are not going to want a single thing to do with an org with a mission that includes abortion. These are not team players. There is no such thing as consensus. Now I want you to succeed at proving me wrong.

  114. I remember Judy.

  115. see this post – i told them the bottom line is feminist orgs would be pro choice but there are ways to work with them on other issues and their general attitude is summed up here:( I wish I could go there and tell her “right on” but I am banned – you go lorac

    intolerantfox replied to your comment on Did Second Wave Feminism Destroy Women? Nonsense. / NewsReal Blog:

    I would work with anyone trying to get life sentences for child molesters/rapists. The life issue is one conservative women aren’t going to abandon. But certainly it would not stop us from joining the fight to protect children from sexual abuse. Certainly NOT. And I do agree with the above poster who said that feminism’s big mistake was to exclude conservative women. It really was a mistake. All women should be allowed to have a voice in a women’s movement. Even if they disagree.

  116. tell her she was not excluded –there is no movement

  117. I see that All woman should be allowed a voice as a death sentence when you have an anti abortion person in the room. That’s all I’m saying.

  118. yeah I thought you and Annie were soulmates — get both of them – what the hell

  119. Like Phyllis said, WHERE WERE THEY? The same place they are now. They wanted nothing to do with the movement and they didn’t participate in all the fights for rape and child abuse laws. They did nothing but wave the anti abortion flag and follow Shaffley around yelling Get Thee In Thy Kitchen. They could have started an opposing movement that embraced all those things but as I said before abortion is their ONLY issue. Domestic violence pfffffffffffft. You have to ask yourself why ANY woman would oppose the ERA.

  120. lorac, I spoke with foster mom and she suggested that Millicent, being a bit older, would be more suitable. Annie, apparently is a bit of a cracker – high energy type. Millicent is a year older, more settled and not as manic.

  121. Uppity

    I know exactly what you are saying — i had no problems with those women -as i said the catholics funded me for 3 years and i was as radical as it got – don’t worry about the women who want to work when there is work to do — now if we only talk with no movement then there is trouble — and the vultures who don’t work – they are trouble — the thing is NEVER work with anti abortion women on ANYTHING to do with reproduction – not even sex education curriculum — NO – that is a waste of time and energy

  122. if they come to you and say I want to work – take them — Alinsky says when the anti abortion gun toting nun comes to the neighborhood watch and says she will work to pass legislation concerning rape victims, put her on the sexual assault committee. And we can — because we will have other committees where she has nothing to say. And the only people on the board or staff is people who agree with all the non negotiable positions — it can be done

  123. Who the heck is that Aaron guy. If I were married to him I’d kill him in his sleep.

    What he calls he “right” is a “privilege” for a female, no doubt he gets to dole out privileges. And then they wonder why the 2nd wave occurred.

  124. the ones who follow shaffley don’t come — oh no because they are about more than anti abortion but on displaced homemakers I worked with anti abortion women (here is a secret – they do evolve sometimes) and yes on DV some of those who opened their homes to the railroad were radical catholics — it happens you can’t tell until you give them a job and see how they do

  125. Well like i said, prove me wrong. The whole thing makes me want to take a nap. I’m not 25 any longer and I’m not going to pretend to be for a bunch of little ingrates who only want to work on things if it doesn’t interfere with their social life.

  126. Uppity – you are so funny — my mother used to say I’ll kill him in his sleep whenever she got mad at Fred.

  127. you understand all this is far different from compromising with them or changing feminist positions to work with them — this is not what BO does every time the Dem’s might be actually winning – his sickening “lets compromise and work with the repubs ” crapola — i am not talking about changing to work with them – i am saying welcome them when they want to work on an issue — there is a difference in those two positions

  128. Green, why bother. I’ve no time for anyone that does not believe in equality – none, nada zip. I have no desire to be lectured to, none nada zip. For the first 30 years of my life I tried to get along with everyone, which usually meant that I gave way to their opinions/feelings. The last thirty years of my life have been on my terms and I’m a lot happier being me. I’m not about to get into any arguments, so I would prefer that the zygote brigade stay far away from me. Perhaps that is counter productive in your scenario, but I’m not willing to compromise anymore. I did that, did not enjoy it, will not do it again.

  129. HT, do you really want a hound?

  130. UW – OMG, I just checked my email. You sent me an email. I thought this whole thing was a joke, The Other Place. I didn’t know it was real!

    Ok, I officially feel stupid lol

  131. Uppity, I was wary when Beagle came up – I lived next to a succession of Beagles when I was young, and they drove me nuts. However, this is a mix with a spaniel. I’ll see tomorrow whether we will fit.

  132. lol lorac. Your wish is my command.

  133. HT it’s not a combo for me, but if it’s what you want, go for it!

  134. Uppity, I actually want a Westie, but alas, it’s not in my budget. Is there a problem with a beagle spaniel mix that I don’t know about?

  135. Well the thing is, HT, the general characteristics of a westie are far removed from those of a beagle or a spaniel. Terrier vs. hound.

    But don’t listen to me. To me if it’s not a herder and if I have to bend down to pet him, it’s not what I want.

  136. Uppity, in other words, I made a huge mistake. Ah well, Milly needs a home, I have a home, If all goes well, we will adjust to each other. The only thorn is Zeke. If he hates Milly, well it will get dicey. Zeke has a way about him – he cows every animal and most humans he comes into contact with. But I love that little furball, and Zeke rules the roost. So Milly relies on Zeke’s approval. If he turns his nose up and attacks – I’ll keep looking.

  137. Did you ask them if the dog has ever lived with cats?

  138. YOu would do well to introduce zeke and the dog in a supervised and gradual way over a period of days or a week. Let them sniff at each other under a door. Short supervised visits in the same room, slow, let them get used to each other. Is this a puppy or an adult?

  139. It’s a two year old, and the foster mom has cats. It’s a crap shoot really. Zeke is the king. I would never introduce a male dog. Tried that once when daughter got Sam the Jack Russell. Zeke was not impressed. They finally called a truce, but Sam, to this day is scared shitless by Zeke. And Lilah, his sis is terrified of Zeke. I don’t blame them, the 10 pound ball of fury scares the shit out of me too.

  140. Well okay then. The dog knows cats so the dog knows about the Five Razors. Zeke will set the tone. Try not to let the dog get injured.

  141. Re: pumapac

    On Hillaryis44 website, they pointed to some old webpage for pumapac. If you go to the url, and scroll down to the bottom of the comments, there are some from the last couple of days. The commenters there don’t seem to know what’s going on, though.

    http://blog.pumapac.org/2009/06/08/weve-moved-2/comment-page-3/#comment-213061

  142. Hi all !!

    lorac,

    I’ve sent mails out to Murphy and DWP. Haven’t heard anything back yet.

    I will post back here if I hear anything back.

    XOXOXO

  143. Thx, goofsmom!

  144. Your welcome lorac. :)

  145. HT, hope the adoption works out.

    Green, I vaguely remember the Karen de Crow incident. Gawd so many years have passed. I’m sorry Mary Jean used you so badly. I can truthfully say that just because a woman claims she’s a feminist and belongs to NOW doesn’t mean she isn’t going to stab you in the back. Lol.

    I’m with Uppity, I’m not going to work with those young feminists either, but then I don’t plan on working with anyone. I quit working in the local democrats since 2008, did try to take back NOW and you all know what’s happening there, and now I’m just going to clean house and enjoy the new deli in town.

    They had a fabulous apple pie which when heated and topped with french vanilla ice cream was heavenly.

    I’m actually tired of the ingratitude of the youngsters, which includes people in my family BTW. Let them find out what life is like without those rights we fought for. I’ll just eat pie. I know that’s Imust’s stock in trade the pie thing, but that apple pie was really good.

  146. From further up in the comments, yes Phyllis Schafly has a gay son. And he works for her organization. That should make him a traitor to both women and gay men. :evil:

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1889757,00.html

    Now I wonder, with Phyllis being of the old school, does she believe in the popular myth that the mother has/had something to do with the son being gay? Hmmmm…

  147. Great post and comments. As Up said above, I never needed a man, I occasionally wanted one, but now I am very content to be on my own and take care of me.

    If the time comes when I need help in my life, I have a very well rounded and independent daughter to care for me in my old age. God forbid I impose on her.

    My ex-husband of 27 years let me do everything and he played dumb. I did the shoveling, the cooking, the gardening, the full-time job, the child care and the taxi-mom bit, the caring for his aging parents and mine too… no wonder I feel like I retired since I divorced him.

    It took me a while to realize why I do not watch TV at all – I never had time to watch it for a decade or two! I don’t regret a thing. I finally found my one selfish bone and am holding onto it for the rest of my life. I wore the “women power” t-shirt and lived it for most of my life, so let them lose all we worked for, it is no skin off my nose anymore, it is their battle or not, now.

    NOW and the rest of them lost me for good over Hillary. Obama wasn’t worthy of their support and they not only supported him they gushed about it. They had no clue and wouldn’t listen to reason and couldn’t see the obvious disaster in the making.

    Fuck ‘em. Like we told them when they held our uterus’ over our heads – we’re done being blackmailed – our uteri are on retirement now.

  148. My ex-husband of 27 years let me do everything and he played dumb. I did the shoveling, the cooking, the gardening, the full-time job, the child care and the taxi-mom bit, the caring for his aging parents and mine too… no wonder I feel like I retired since I divorced him

    ROFL!

    .

  149. Goofs, I emailed Murphy yesterday. No answer.

    It certainly is a mystery. I know some places are saying it was deliberate, but I just don’t think Murphy would do that to her loyalists without adequate warning. So I am holding out that there is either a server problem or a denial of service attack, preferably the first.

  150. This is a wonderful thread. What a sane, feminist, and bright spot this blog is! Thank you, Uppity and crew.

    I’m in my late 50′s, BTW, and it is really weird to see women’s accomplishments and rights diminished and derided long after I’d hoped they were permanently achieved. Seriously, even my poky mid-sized Appalachian city once had a two-story designated women’s center with a mural of first-wavers on it–right downtown where all of the city/county government, courts, etc. were centered–and the city held a special women’s rights’ day of celebration every spring. There’s nothing high-profile feminist here now, and that building’s murals were painted over long ago.

  151. Shaffley’s gay son does not really work for her-after he did some interviews about her they found a way to shut him up by assuring him of an good income for the rest of his life.

  152. Thanks, Uppity. I always learn so much from you and appreciate your willingness to stand up and keeping the issue of fair treatment to women front and center. I really tire of women who would rather win the approval of men by pretending feminism is no longer necessary. I was blindsided in 2008 by the venomous treatment of women, Hillary in particular. To say it changed my life and my life’s path would be an understatement. I also appreciate PC’s courage and continued fight.

  153. Hi Anita. How are you doing, sister? I know this all changed your life path and you probably have incurred more than a few punishments along the way. You are a brave and good woman. For those of you who missed it, you need to read Anita’s piece at NQ,
    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2010/11/17/on-behalf-of-women-in-politics/

  154. A friend shared your post on Phyllis Chesler. I loved the post, Uppity Woman, and I loved all of these comments. (And I went and left a comment at NRB but I may be in moderation there.)
    I’m so sick of those Third Wavers who don’t want to appreciate the struggle or do any work. (I’m sure there are some who do.)
    My best friend from college sent me your post Monday along with this one
    http://thecommonills.blogspot.com/2010/12/not-in-damn-mood-today.html

    which also calls out Third Wave only that woman uses the phrase that they pinned on themselves in the early 90s “Do Me Feminists” — which I’ve never forgotten because I thought it was both a pathetic thing to call yourself and a sign of how pathetic to please men they were.

    Thank you for being there Uppity Woman. There are few rays of light for feminists who believe that the struggle continues. I have a daughter and she’s younger than Third Wave. Hopefully she and her friends will pick up the struggle (and she’s already one to stand up for equality loudly and proudly).

  155. “Do Me Feminism”? Jaysus, no wonder they are losing.

    Stick close Carolyn. We may need you to find more women like yourself who Get It, before it IS too late. If it isn’t already. Bless your daughter. She may have to start all over again. And that makes me sad.

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