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There’s a lot of talk about the gal who tried to stop the gunman in Florida, but I think everyone should see this whole thing. I want to know what you think. And what you feel.
And for those of you who heard about what the woman did, here’s a closeup of that encounter.
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Uppity Woman
NoEmptySuits
mcnorman
freedomfairy01
ProudMilitaryMom
thetownecrier
lorac
Anita Finlay ("Ani")
imusthavepie
I’m taking this really slowly because I want to understand. Did the gunman say that his benefits had expired, and he was broke? Or am I imagining things. And did the politicians ignore that? I’m not trying in any way to justify what this chap did. Going back to the video.
She was suicidally brave – unfortunately she picked the wrong tool for the job…
Instead of her handbag, she needed a sledgehammer. I wish I could say I would have done the same…
Not justifying what he did…..but:
1. Sorry for the situation the shooter found himself in.
2. I thought the woman with the purse was silly – and you notice he did not retaliate against her by shooting her?
3. He missed everyone he shot at?
4. Suicide by School Board.
I don’t know Val. If I used my bag to hit anyone with, they would go down. I carry a laptop, wallet, files, and personal stuff. The thing is luggage.
This guy has a record of being
an a**hole deluxenuts. That may seem severe, but he really didn’t know how to handle much considering what he did in 1999. I don’t like to see death, but clearly this was his only way out. I think that he had some serious mental issues before.In 1999 he held his gf at gunpoint. He had two loaded Glocks and shot out her tires as she drove off to get away from him. He got 5 years. He served 4 and was supposed to be on probation for 10 more. He had a gun. Felons are not supposed to have guns. His bennies ran out, but he had $$$ for a gun? I’m sure that his ex gf is happy that she never has to worry about him shooting at her again. As for his wife, I think she is probably happy that she wasn’t there.
This is sad. The spouse said that he was a “gentle giant.”
One pic they were showing on teevee last night was a FL Dept. of Corrections so I assumed he had had a previous run in with the law.
I am sure he was crazy and eventually dangerous but as I told Uppity I just cried and cried.
I don’t think he wanted to kill – i think he wanted to die after a lifetime of trying and failing and now the money was gone and there wasn’t any more coming.
I think the woman was brave and trying to keep her fellow board members from being shot. I think she was brave and probably a second waver (just kidding). She was trying to protect them and thought she could not just do nothing and only save herself.
The gunman did not shoot her. I think he wanted them to listen to his despair – he did not intend to kill anyone but himself.
I think there is going to be a lot of this among the old and the dispossessed even if they are not crazy. Not at school board meetings but in their bedrooms or cars. Like my uncle who is 62 and the factory he works at just closed. Or the GM ex-workers here in town. Can’t make the house payments on unemployment. I am telling him about reverse mortgage but after a lifetime of factory work his hands are empty – his son unemployed, a child on the way-their first grandchild. For some the unemployment almost stopped. The anxiety.
I just cried.
Green, I’m of the same mind as you. My beloved mom attempted suicide many times. She was put into a mental hospital, behind iron doors with bars and we couldn’t even visit her. I remember how desolate I was, because my mom was the smartest person I knew, she just got overwhelmed And believe me, my mom was brilliant, although I didn’t realize that until I was an adult.
If the fellow had intended to kill, he had the optimum opportunity, yet, when he discharged, oddly not one of his shots touched anyone. Despair is a terrible thing. I am perhaps giving him more credit that I should because of my previous experiences with my mom, but I cannot condemn him out of hand. Look at the way he is dressed, look at the way he conducts himself. He is clearly (to my mind) in distress. He’s without hope – he’s at the end of his rope, he’s ill, and no one has recognized it. I guess I really am a bleeding heart liberal.
I think you are exactly right HT. It takes a special understanding to know how these people are driven to do what they do. So many more will be feeling this despair now.
Now on Tee Vee, Hillary is reorganizing the state dept. No more private contractors. 500 new hires. But it looks like she is getting into a tussle with the military (if you operate where we are tell the ambassador!) but she is expanding the counter terrorism office. I
Karen I TOLD you this unofficial ambassador stuff was getting to be a little much.
Green, just read your latest on Dynecorp – sickening – truly disgusting.
Everyone, check out greens’ blog.
I will say this. that board president, or whatever he is, made a grave mistake asking over and over again “What did she do?”. Dumb. Very dumb. Probably wouldn’t have made a difference though.. The guy decided to take his life and that was clear from the start. I do think he deliberately didn’t hit anyone with his shots. Nobody could be that bad a shot unless it was deliberate. The lady with the purse probably wanted to stop him from hurting anyone but using her purse was just plain dumb. She should have been carrying this, which I carry, in search of pitbulls since that attack my dog and I had in August.
http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-SABRE-Red-Pepper-Sprays-cln-Magnum-Defense-Spray/Categories
I do agree that despair can drive people to this kind of thing. But after reading McNorman’s rundown on the guy, I am not sure I put him in the same category with normal, law abiding citizens.
Green & HT:
It takes depth and courage to say what you just both said.
This man, unlike the animals in the Sudan video, is clearly not enjoying his utter sense of failure and his family’s total dependence upon the “system”.
Systems, I might add, that we are all learning can be so corrupt and merciless that they will destroy peoples’ lives in order sustain their undeserving self-preservation.
… so corrupt in fact, they think nothing of destroying the very ones who entrust them with their contributions to managing their vested interests in successful governance for the good of all society.
The only difference in this horrifyingly, deranged failure of a man and those who enable, hone, then exercise their individual power in such horrifyingly deranged systems?
Commoners get labeled a criminal for life for their past acts – and are usually blamed for their inability to capitalize on the systems as they are.
It’s just one more case of where one turns his brand of symbols of power and control on others and – in this case – on himself.
I find what he did as terrifying and wrong – but, no more so than British Petroleum, quite frankly.
I think the woman who swung with her purse has a hero’s bravery. And it *could* have worked, if he had been holding the gun loosely.
But I was disappointed in those other women who left out that same exit – one walked literally an inch from that gun, as she passed him his back was to her, she could have tried something. But all of them could have come back with the other woman, he stood there for a while with his back to that exit, they could have all snuck up and tackled him. He was big, yes, but he was out of shape and there were several of them. Making him land with a thunk on that big belly would have knocked the wind out of him. They could have pulled a Flight 93 on him! I wonder if she suggested the all rush him, and the rest wimped out.
Anyway, I think the one person in the whole room who tried anything was brave! I want her on MY team!
I believe that he should have gotten help a long time ago. He didn’t develop or nurture any coping skills. I can only imagine that being an adult without some semblance of those skills would easily lead to this path.
I think that we are going to see more of this. Remember the eighties when the mental institutions released all those people and they ended up on the street? Some made it and many did not.
By the way, where were the Municipal POLICE? All that was there was a security guard. There was plenty of time for a police department to respond to this. Cripes, where the HELL were they? You mean NOBODY called the police? I kind of doubt that.
The security guard was a retired cop.
Although not applicable in this situation, I think about the unemployed, the “99ers”. They won’t be helped by whatever unemployment package grudgingly passes through the Congress. They are s.o.l. How many of them may decided to end it by death-by-cop or something else? We are truly in some rotten and horrible times that I don’t see ending soon.
Fredster, I think that you are absolutely right. It doesn’t take much to push off the cliff for the many who are in the midst of so much turmoil. We will probably be witnessing more of this.
mcnorman: I don’t know how those people, the 99ers are making it. I wonder how many have moved in with family members or friends or something. I don’t know why they-Congress didn’t try to get *some* additional coverage for those folks. I guess they just don’t exist anymore in some minds.
Uppity at 10:40 – I think they called him but he had to get the one bullet loaded first.
http://www.newsrealblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/barney-fife1.jpg
It doesn’t matter if the security guard was a retired cop. The police are to respond to any calls within the city. The police department should have rushed to that scene. Crickets.
I wonder about the response time as well.
Oh yes I remember when “Saint” Ronnie dumped all the mental patients on the street AND arbitrarily dumped people off of disability to see who fought. SOme died. I know one. Saint, my ass. The only solace there is that I’ll bet his last lucid thought was Why Did I Refuse To Fund Alsheimer’s Research. Makes me sick the way they talk about that guy like he was all that and a bag of chips.
I did all right under Reagan, don’t get me wrong, not nearly as well as I did under Clinton, but well enough. But he was NO Saint.
I’ll bet he’s doing some Hell time just for declaring ketchup a vegetable.
The security guard left the first time to go get a gun. lol.
I think I saw on one of McNorman’s links that SWAT was called and busted down the door and ordered everyone to the floor… after the fact. I guess the dead guy was already on the floor. I’m not making fun (I did w/Barney), but I think that’s what the article said.
Oh yes, the ketchup is a vegetable. Sounds a bit like Meechelda’s musings.
Where do they get this stuff?
Fredster, I strongly suspect that Obamacare is going to send a lot of sick people over the cliff.
Yes Fred, the man had already shot himself when the cops appear in the video. Everyone is told to get their hands up.
I’m not defending the guy. Just saying I find it harder and harder to look upon this particular person as a the worst of the garbage in America these days.
The purse lady was an idiot – or had a death wish hero moment without a thought of failure and getting them all killed, imo.
Fredster – the people who have exhausted 2 years of unemployment – can’t they apply for welfare payments now….?
(that will probably be another “pay cut”, but at least it would be something, and they could get a food stamp debit card)
I honestly don’t know why people aren’t storming the white house, why newspapers aren’t having big headlines, all screaming “why have you ignored jobs for 2 years????!!!!”, “why did you waste all that time on your republican health care plan when everyone was screaming about jobs??!!!” If they had jobs, a lot of them would still have the d*mn health insurance! (but of course, it wouldn’t have been hisinsurance)
Just saw this in comments over at pumapac – looks like it started an hour ago – don’t know how long it’s going to last…
Hiya Murphy and Pumas!
Phyllis Chesler joins Betty Jean tonight..show starts at 10 pm EST
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/freemenow
.
oops looks like it started TWO hours ago…
This is the face of America now. The despairing, the walking wounded, the hopeless, the homeless. While the man sounded like he had already had mental problems, something certainly compounded them and set him off..
I agree Uppity. I remember Reagan as someone totally out of touch with real people. The deregulation, the institutional closings, the people dumped on the street, the comments that people wanted to be homeless. I cannot for the life of me understand the Reagan worship. We are still suffering from his deregulation policies followed by Bush I and II.
In the industry I worked we lost hundreds of thousands of jobs, and I knew several who committed suicide because they could not find work anywwhere.
I read in one of our newspapers that my state is “bracing itself for tens of thousands losing their unemployment benefits over the next four months, culminating in 35,000 in mid April.”
And Barry continues to party and preach. I am personally blessed in my life, but I know many who are not and one friend, in another state, is now living in her car. Welcome to the new American Dream. Sigh. We could have had Hillary…
lorac: about “welfare”, I don’t know. Most of the time what we think of as welfare is/was AFDC, Aid to Families with Dependent Children I believe it’s called. I don’t know what all the criteria are for that. Usually that’s the single moms where there’s no daddy.
I’m sure they are eligible for food stamps but that doesn’t cover a roof over your head.
Lorac: I found this on welfare. I guess things have changed. I’ve personally never known anyone who was receiving these benefits.
http://www.welfareinfo.org/
LOTS more details on this story coming out now.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/15/police-florida-school-board-gunman-had-planned-attack/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C190216
Senneth, all this health insurance greed and the problems started under his presidency. I saw it happen, piece by piece. And look where it is today. Having health insurance, if you can even afford it, is a chore. Work. They make you work and pay them for the ‘pleasure” of being insured. I remember when nobody even THOUGHT about health insurance. You just had it, it was affordable, you went to the doctor, they paid. Now they have people running through hoops living in fear even if they DO have insurance, and for single pay, many people can barely afford it, and, since Obamascare, MANY cannot afford it.
Uppity from your link:
So why was her employment terminated? The supt. naturally isn’t going to talk about one personnel matter but were there general layoffs of teachers in the system? If so, this may not be the last *incident*.
Well, given the details coming out – I guess I should be quiet on how I feel about the political rat-bastards driving American families into the ground – not to mention the BP’s, etc.
I wonder who thinks we all sound mentally ill when reading us ripping them a new one? lol
I’m one of those that wouldn’t pull the trigger on another human being – they would just have to kill my ass. Of course, if I saw some animal flogging a woman I don’t know what I would do after I called 911 – it wouldn’t be pretty. If it was a child? I’m pretty sure I would die trying to hurt the perp badly, with my bare hands.
I went deer hunting ONCE – stood up in the blind when I saw 3 deer in the distance and screamed “RUN! SHOOO! GRRRRHHHH!!!”
Her
I love you too
He was a manic-depressive and their benefits had run out. There was no where to go in his world.
green – he was aware he needed help, but the only help he wanted was the resumption of free money for his wife (he wasn’t working and apparently hadn’t been and wasn’t receiving UI).
An option would have been to go to the ER and tell them he had homocidal and suicidal ideation, or to call 911 or a crisis line and tell them. People do that. He would have received help.
There’s a reason some people ask for help and some don’t, and it’s not related to the economy.
IMHO, people who resort to the type of conduct are no different than terrorist. The guy just wanted to get out his guns and go shoot some public servants and make a big spectacle of himself. He has the Timothy McVeigh gene. And this morning I saw a video of the wife trying to put a good spin on his actions. And God bless the woman with the purse. Like many other woman, she has more testicles than POTUS.
UW. No matter what a person’s situation is, this type of behavior is wrong.There is no right to a job, finacial security, or even a retirement. What we do have in this country is the right to the opportunity to succeed, or fail. Usually, us far right guys are blamed for this type of behavior. Dude was on the otherside of the political spectrum. The more people allow themselves to be enslaved to the federal government, the more we are going to see incidents like these.
btw…this guy must have been a lib, notice he missed all his targets, except himself at point blank range! LOL!
[...] Over at Uppity’s we were discussing the Panama School Board shooting. Clay Duke said his wife was terminated. Money problems. Clay Duke, the Florida gunman who opened fire at a school board, ranted against the rich in what appears to have been a final manifesto on Facebook. [...]
Did anyone see the interview with his wife?
It’s heartbreaking. He must have not been all failure and all bad.
“She wanted to surprise him – that she had found a job – and tell him that everything was going to be ok”
I have a dear, dear friend – I love her as my sister, trust her with my life, I would die for her in a heartbeat.
She’s severely bi-polar – due to a brain injury from being thrown from a vehicle doing 70 MPH – years ago.
There are times that are so difficult – the side effects from her medications make the “cure” less than ideal for her. When she’s stabilized on them, a part of her “aliveness” is definitely “missing.”
Sometimes, when she can’t stand the impairments because life is life-ing and the stresses are higher – she, too, believes “if only I could do more, think better, have more energy… and she tries it one more time off of her medications to see if she can be more normal without them – if something has change – one more time.”
She doesn’t do it to intentionally become insane – she does it to intentionally try to be more – normal more helpful, more a part of the solution to the situation causing the added stresses.
All hell usually breaks loose.
This particular brain illness – and its antidotes – are like that.
I love her anyway – she is my closest friend – and if she did what this man did, I would stick by her – not because what she did wasn’t horribly wrong – but because her challenges to cope with life on life’s terms are beyond the “norm”.
Nope, John, he wasn’t a leftie. He hated both parties just like me, if you read his stuff. He didn’t like how the rich was sucking everyone’s blood and it made no difference what party, they are all sucking our blood. And I agree! You are getting YOUR blood sucked by them too John. I agree with that, only I don’t plan on pulling a gun on anybody over it, unless, of course, they are trying to break into my home. In that case, all bets are off. He was just an seriously angry man who didn’t do much for himself and gave up because the government didn’t give him what he felt he was entitled to. I don’t think anybody is really getting blamed for this, except that he wasn’t eligible for disability. He’s not the first biplolar who wasn’t eligible. bipolars are perfectly capable of working. Honestly, and i know I am turning on my moderate tone here, but everybody treats everything like permanent disability these days. In order to be eligible for disability, you have to be UNABLE to work. he was very much able to write on facebook, buy a gun and show up at a meeting. I am sure he was also able to flip a burger instead. If we take our emotional feelings out of this, we have a guy who was living off his wife’s income and she got laid off or fired or whatever in JANUARY.. So from JANUARY to december, neither of these two people could find any work at all, and i find that hard to believe. She’s presumably a teacher and he looked like he wasn’t missing any meals and would have done well to do some outside physical work. One of the things missing here in this current Depression is Drive. I listened to my parents and grandparents talk abou what people did for a living during the Depression. They did whatever it Took to put food on the table. They didn’t sit around waiting for the job they THOUGHT they should have, they did whatever job there WAS.
I will agree that no matter what, this behavior was wrong. But I’ll be damned if I am going to take one more piece of blame for somebody else. He wasn’t eligible for disability. this was obvious. He tried three times because this was going to be a replacement for a job. He also had a criminal mentality and that’s not my fault or anybody else’s fault either. He had a history of violence upon a woman, according to McNorman and that just about puts him on my dogshit list anyways.
Oh shit, Green is gonna kill me.
It would have been a lot more OK if he had hauled his ass since January and got himself a job too. Just saying! Apparently, this guy wanted everyone else to take care of things for him, up to and including his wife. That’s all I’m saying.
Her, I have a family member that has suffered from bipolar personality since his early twenties. It is a difficult disease to manage and when they go off their meds, all hell breaks loose. I foresee much more of this happening.
Yeah, Uppity, and life used to be a hell of lot less expensive to survive times like these.
We all got what we wanted didn’t we? We all got every choice of luxury and convenience we could possibly want – no matter how fucking much it drove up the price of the ticket to this game of life.
Who the fuck do we hold accountable for THAT!?
(Just think) 100 million trees sacrificed to pay for 20 billion product catalogs every year? Not to mention the land ravaged, mudslides – the cost of home-owners’ insurance on everyone for hillside developments, over looking “god’s country”.
…and on and on and on. Aren’t we ALL so special now? And the “problem children” of society are just eating our lunch?
BTW – People who have a criminal record are the last to be given benefits – even if they were mentally ill when they committed a crime.
We didn’t give a shit about them then, either – they were too much trouble then too – the “system” was being designed for those that could pay to play – while more and more “average” players couldn’t keep up.
How’s that working for ALL of us, now?
Yes you are right. We were driven by “Things” her. And credit card companies made it too easy. but I will say, nobody was FORCED to fall for it. I didn’t. I never bought a thing I couldn’t afford. I watched friends dig themselves a hole that they now can’t get out of. Much of it has to do with giving their kids every damned thing they want until they are practically monsters expecting more and more things with less and less responsibility themselves. But seriously, digging a debt hole was not a requirement, just a fool’s errand. Now I will have to help pay for it. I resent that too. But I won’t be showing up someplace with a gun.
God I LOVE riling people up.
Gotta run.
Heh.
My farming grandparents use to live by “Love thy neighbor as thy-SELF” – when times were hard back then, entire families and communities would share their resources.
I guess they were all Pie Suckers?
Personally, my Self-Love-Self-Preservation left “love thy neighbor” in the dust a long, long time ago on the road to bigger, better and more Utopia.
I wish I were you, Uppity, have more of what you have within – I really do and I mean that. But, I’m not.
I know I have Blind Spots based upon a lot of things – influences, life-experiences, choices – good and bad.
Just saying – survival of the fittest ain’t necessarily the end-all-be-all to the whole of society.
Her, you are just FINE the way you are. People like me need people like you to keep us balanced. Seriously.
I think this thread is living proof of the Butterfly Effect.
Just saying.
Yes, they would take in other people’s clothes to iron, shine shoes, run errands, anything…nothing was turned down. I have been through some very serious financial hardship. Although I would have qualified for financial help, I worked two to three jobs doing whatever. If I didn’t know what the work entailed, I learned it. I remember creating a sound track for a beauty pageant. Believe me, I didn’t have a clue but I did it and it got me another job. Many small jobs added to the rent payment every month. Nothing was beneath me, and I mean nothing. I don’t see that attitude much these days.
Good Eye.
Her, I still live by what your grandparents taught you. I also see what people are capable of doing when the “gimme” monster is unleashed. I think that private charity works far more efficiently than the government does to help folks in need.
If you were sheltered by nuns, they expected you to work for it. They also talked to you and helped you not to lose the sense of self when things seemed to be at their worst. The government hands out money, food, shelter but they don’t talk to you about how to get out of the cycle. At 5pm that office closes and no one is going to talk to you about anything unless they are on the clock. You mean nothing because you are their work. The sense of self becomes demoralized. Sometimes, all someone needs is someone to listen. When you have someone interacting with you, the information bounces back as guidance. Good or bad, it may not be what you want to hear, but it is a thought that perhaps a correction of sorts might be needed to rectify the situation. It may just be the right attitude adjustment one needs to hear. It may not, but it is someone who is saying something because they care about you as a fellow human being.
I don’t know that this fine Utopia is doing anyone any good. IMHO, we have created a generation of “me” and “I” which seems to separate us more than unite us. It is disheartening.
UW, ya know I luv ya! And while we taxpayers/citizens are getting sucked dry, it is by the federal government and “some” large coprorations who are in bed with them. What I don’t agree with is people who use class envy. I might be poor, but I support those folks who “earn” million, and even billions, if they earn it honestly. I want everybody to have low tax rates. I don’t want a death tax.
I guess what I am saying is, as I see it, the more the federal government has their grimey fingers in our lives, the more we are going to see response like the above incident. The term going postal comes to mind.
If I have not told you before UW, you are an awesome writer! I really wish I could get my thoughts and feelings across as well as you can.
What’s a mentally ill man with a history of violent criminal conduct doing with a gun anyway? so much for those gun laws.
John, thanks for the compliment and steal my stuff any time!
UW: Thanks, and I do!LOL Merry Christmas
mcnorman – excellent points and agreed.
John – I agree also – it isn’t earning capacities or even the lifestyles that bother me nearly as much as the political cronyism and legislation it can buy.
It pisses me off the same as the many people that have known that milk the disability system that are no more disabled than a relatively healthy person.
I know a car dealer who sells a lot of vehicles – to lots of people that come in with huge amounts of cash for down-payments on their “work trucks, etc.”
What do a big percentage – according to him – report as their source of income? “Disability”
That’s just one dealer that I know of. Multiply that across the country. It goes on every day.
Ever heard of people who get the “Lone Star Food Aid Card” and sell the purchase “benefits” for cash? Some do it, of course to buy “non-approved” items – but many have made a nice business out of it.
Ever see people in line paying with that card in brand new PUMAS and 200.00 jeans or loading a boatload of groceries in their cars with $10,000 rims? I have.
That too, goes on every day at a grocer near you while many, many elderly on fixed SS incomes – no extra benefits – go without.
Uppity says something like “trickle down corruption” – yeah, and the “effects” are just as bad with the “I’ll get mine, too!” mentality.
The Well-Positioned have the capacity to be relatively unscathed by high or low-end corruption – it’s the middle class getting stuck with the deficits.