Yes you read that right folks.
My cajones are THIS big!
Remember when Arnold sent tax rebate IOUs to the few remaining people in California who pay taxes?
The taxpayers don’t have their money, but California is going to tax the money they are supposed to get. Not only that, but they refuse to recognize their own IOUs as real money.
A class action has been filed on behalf of small businesses who weren’t paid by the state for products and services rendered and who are now faced with being taxed on California’s IOUs, which not even the state itself will recognize.
Small businesses that received $682 million in IOUs from the state say California expects them to pay taxes on the worthless scraps of paper, but refuses to accept its own IOUs to pay debts or taxes. The vendors’ federal class action claims the state is trying to balance its budget on their backs.
Lead plaintiff Nancy Baird filled her contract with California to provide embroidered polo shirts to a youth camp run by the National Guard, but never was paid the $27,000 she was owed. She says California “paid” her with an IOU that two banks refused to accept – yet she had to pay California sales tax on the so-called “sale” of the uniforms.
The class consists mostly of small business owners, many of whom rely on income from government contracts to keep afloat. They say California has used them as “suckers” as it looks for a way to bankroll its operations while avoiding its own financial obligations.
I don’t suppose any of this affects Octomom, do you?
Filed under: Uncategorized |
--Graphic by Freedom Fairy
"This is not culture. This is not custom. This is criminal."
Uppity Woman 
“The class consists mostly of small business owners, many of whom rely on income from government contracts to keep afloat. ”
first mistake.
Not even the National Lampoon (do they still exist?) could dream up something as macabre as this…
And THEY were pretty imaginative!
-MS
Seriously f*^$^&% up!!!!
Nevada should offer to accept their IOUs if they move there from California. I hear Las Vegas is seriously trying to lure business out of California now.
Good idea- then they can register to vote and get rid of Harry Reid!
Wonder what would happen if you sent the state an IOU with your tax bill?
THIS HAS BAD IDEA WRITTEN ALL OVER IT.
Constitutional rights or not these people should be removed from anywhere near the president. How could the SS protect oilsoc from a few dozen people at the same time if things got out of hand.
Was this something written into law by the Democrats or is it a policy of the Arnold Administration?
The link you provide for the story seems broken.
deadenders: I agree with you completely. There is a time and place for everything. Carrying guns to a public event is a bad idea in all kinds of ways.
shhhh Arnold is no republican…….well he might be a new school republican.
People who carry guns to events such as this should have their extremist asses hauled off for a long time. Come on, there is no good reason to be doing that unless you are a nutcase. I cannot believe they bothered to give the first guy who did it any air time, they should have thrown his ass in a mental institution. He is a living confirmation of the argument that we need to be more careful to whom we give guns. He looked like a crazy ass too. And so do these crackpots. Frankly they scare me as much as Obama’s extremists do. Not much difference between them. Two fringes that are ruining America with their crazy ideas.
Link is fixed in post.
And that SOB who wielded a billy club outside voting booths in PA during the election should be in the slammer right now and it should be a long time before he was allowed out. Instead they let him go and as far as I’m concerned, this is the reason the other crackpots carrying the guns exist to begin with. This violent streak comes from both extremes and they all need to become examples or this country is going to be in a convoluted revolution led by crazy assed emotional defectives.
Gangster Government.
http://therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/bachmann-on-the-obama-gangster-government/
Pay your congressman to play. or to survive.
Very funny!
Preaching to the choir sister. Amen!
Gang, I’ve got a job deadline so I am going to be a bit scarce the next few days. Hope you understand.
Yeah mcnorman the Octomom is Octoexempt from IOU’s.
AARP losing more members due to their stance on Obamacare than to attrition.
And if that’s what Katie and the gang are reporting one can only imagine what the real numbers are.
UW is comrade Obama’s potato harvest ready to be dug up in your area or something? Support Dear Readers glorious cause UW!
And when “angry mobs” stand up fearful of the government taking over health care, this is why. Government has a long track record of silliness.
socalannie – – –
there is a reply from me to you in the last thread about John Pilger…
I’m glad people are quitting aarp, but that ASA smells of Dick Armey. I would hate to see seniors just an organization that isn’t in their best interest any more than AARP is. If you look at ASA’s mission, it’s to shove a stick up the asses of seniors and eliminate social security and medicare. Here we go again. Nobody in the middle, just the shaft.
Hey mcnorman get a load of this nut case.
DE,
Why does stuff like this always happen in Texas?
Really good drugs coming across the border Grail.
I hate to see it come to this but to be honest I know some middle of the road people that are ready to take to the gun. I think the gangster government has just pushed even moderates to damn far. Be afraid be very very afraid.
I tell people to chill out because this is what the Dems are hoping for. It will lead to total gun elimination. I urge you to read the Blair Holt bill if you are a gun owner and scream out because it is step one to removal. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/textIf you are a gun owner you have the right to be outraged. But never and I repeat NEVER bring a gun to a political meeting or any other. This is scary. I am not happy. Stay peaceful and alert and stop yelling at the political boob in the meeting. Remain calm and come armed with questions you have the answers to and put them on the spot !
I really don’t know this is right wing extremists or if it is made to look that way or worse yet if it is average Joe Q. Outraged and scared citizen.
DE — While horrendous for this boy, female genital mutilation has been culturally, or tribally, sanctioned for over 2,000 years in Africa and the ME. FGM is most prevalent in Egypt (even though recently banned), Sudan, Ethiopia, and Mali. In the ME, the practice occurs in northern Saudia Arabia, southern Jordan, and in Northern Iraq. In large percentages, it occurs in an eastern band from Senegal to Ethiopia, and northerly from Tanzania to Egypt.
The list of reasons given for it are ludicrous.
Do what you need to do to get by. It’s all most of us can do these days.
utahwoman: here is a corrected link to this very important legislation.
Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 AKA We’re going to take away all your stinking guns you un-American radicals
DE, you should know that Texas is the wild West. Come over and tell me what you think?
Hey, that invite is ALWAYS extended to all at UW’s place. More laughable outrage.
If I were in CA. and got these I.O. U.s that is what I would send in as payment on the 2009 state income tax.
Shh…I don’t think that they want to mess with Texas.
hey guys you have to remember that this is arizona,ive lived here 13years and have never figuered out why it has to be legal{no license] to carry guns non concealed in this state,you see it all the time including mongols and hells angels on the bikes with a pistol worn openly.people out some of tthem still think its the wild west.
i mean brain dead stupid legislators that think the open carry law should be extended to bars,duh im a gun onwer have beeb since i was very young and a cardinal rule i was taught and live by is guns and booze dont mix.so now my rant about stupidity in az is over any questions.
The only thing that separates Texas from Arizona is New Mexico (imho)
I have friends and family in one or both, and I cannot figure out why they are still there. (sorry, but those are twa craaazyyy states)
And then there is my Sweet Home Chicago – window to the gangster world. (do I have room to talk?)
BTW:
twa means TWO
bad keyboard !
don’t take your guns to town Bill.leave ypur guns at home.Bill.
remember that song?
do what ya got to Upp..we will leave the light on for ya.(hugs)
leslie, I got it–thanks!
One of my biggest fears is that the time will come when my husband gets an IOU instead of a paycheck. I remember I was furious when Arnold got Gray Davis thrown out and wasted tens of millions for that stupid extra election. He had people all riled up because there was an increase (not a large one) in our yearly state auto reg. fees. Arnold made all these commercials telling everyone he “was going to open the books and end wasteful spending”. Well, that never happened and Californias budget problems have gone from bad to worse. Now they’re making huge cuts in programs for kids, special needs kids, elderly, etc. All 3 of the battered women’s shelters in our county have closed down. This state is so f&*ked up right now.
California, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Montana to name a few are states where open carry of firearms are legal. Me personally I have no issue with that. It evens the odds if you will and more over if more carried and the damn bastage gang bangers knew it and know they were up against people who have learned to make one shot count things coulds be far different. I never in my life feared a hunter or person who is a good gun owner because they train and will not just pop a cap.
UW what do you think of oilsoc borrowing $2 Billion from China to loan to Brazil to drill for offshore oil?
DE I think we can’t even afford to give other countries a cup of coffee and we had best stop. They all hate us anyhow. As for drilling in Brazil, we never learn. If they find oil, they will be our next enemy who exploits us. I think we had better cut the shit and start drilling ourselves.
Of course they closed the battered women shelters, socal. They just a bunch of women who asked for it. No big deal, right? Embroidered shirts for kids. That’s what’s important.
Now hold on. The journalist in me says this
gun photo has setup written all over it. This stunt
was pictured to paint health care opponents
as crazy.
We’ve seen this kind of thing many times
before. It worked so well during the election,
why stop now? Planted people yelling
“kill him” and now this black gun-toter in
Phoenix? Can you say setup? It’s so
blatant.
CNN revealed the photo showing the guy.
What is the chance of a black “protester”
carrying a military assault rifle at a “protest”
rally in Phoenix? I’d say ZERO.
This was a setup to paint the health care
protesters as a bunch of crazies…unfortunately,
they probably needed to recruit a black man
to do it, since few white people are foolish
enough for this. It smacks of black panthers
at polling places.
“I’m exercising my rights as an American
in Arizona,” the man, WHO REFUSED TO
GIVE HIS NAME, told KNXV.
(Naturally HE REFUSED, since odds are
that he didn’t even LIVE in Arizona.)
DE,
That story about the psychotic who mutilated her son confirms my belief that not only people who sell drugs but people who take drugs should go to jail.
Re: the “gun slinging” incident, I heard that at least one of these individual’s was also carrying a sign “REFORM NOW.” I heard a woman on the radio that attended BO’s townhall in Montana. She was not able to go inside. Protesters (she was one) and counter-protesters were separate. But she saw some SEIU folks wander into her group trying to start something. She indicated that nothing happened. I do not trust the left anymore. They use race baiting at every turn and I wouldn’t put it pass some of them to instigate something and then the media , of course, blames the “radical racist right-wingers”.
If it’s legal to carry a gun somewhere, carry it. If they don’t want guns at a town hall, put a metal detector at the door. High schools have them anyway.
If you needed a permit to practice the First Amendment, MSNBC would be out of business.
DE,
Smells like a setup to me…trying to make it look like “militia’s” are planning to attack so martial law can be declared and they can take away people’s guns. Too obvious……
As usual, our government is up to no good….and when I say government, I mean Goldman Sachs which IS the Federal Reserve (which is a PRIVATE BANK NOT OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT, HOLDING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HOSTAGE WITH DEBT).
Get ready for them to take a major haircut of the population. All these “government bailouts” are really the Fed Mafia buying up all the distressed and defaulted assets that they helped create by flooding the market with money. Now money is going to be worthless!
They do this over and over again to us. We must WAKE UP!
Buy HARD ASSETS NOW. FOOD, water, tools, items for running your own business, precious metals. Be prepared.
This has been a public service announcement brought to you by your new United States currency – The Amero…….
Fixing California’s economy is not exact ly rocket science. Deport illegal aliens, and prune back entitlement programs to the root–eliminating subsidized fornication, known as aid to the dependant children, would be a good place to start.
As long as the Liberals running the California legislature consider themselves too high-minded (translation= are too squeamish) to do the necessary, my state will be both broke and broken. A miniature obamaland.
From Surfergirl to DE:
“Smells like a setup to me…trying to make it look like “militia’s” are planning to attack so martial law can be declared and they can take away people’s guns. Too obvious……”
Exactly, Surfer….wayyyy to much overkill and
that pictured gun-toter was black. Uh-huh, sure
thing. What are the odds of a BLACK protester
with all this hardware in Phoenix? Does not
compute.
Not for the squeamish….
If you’re ready to see the truth about the history of our country and how it really operates, watch the following EXCELLENT movie. It’s over 3 hours long but WELL WORTH THE AWAKENING…
The Money Masters
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
What about the AA guy who got caught on FACEBOOK pretending to be a white supremicist?
Exactly UW!
A lot of this B.S. you see in the news is planted there to manipulate us and confuse us. And unfortunately, innocent people get used to do other people’s dirty work because they know most of the public is not aware of how these diabolical games work.
There are 3 campaigns (3 pronged attack) going on right now:
1. Crashing the Economy (Second Great Depression) – Stealing assets and transfer of wealth
2. H1N1 (Swine Flu) – huge profits for big Pharma and elimination of people using dangerous untested vaccines for people who can’t pay taxes (which are profits to the FED) because they’re jobless and broke/bankrupt
3. (Martial Law) – Militia propaganda to make honest, concerned, protesting citizens of BOTH parties look like radical right wing domestic terrorists, and take away their guns
Having to fight for our rights against treasonous parasites is nothing new for us. This is how our country was formed. So it’s just time again for us to make sure that these people do not get away with this Sh*T!
Anyone heard about this?
I was watching a story about Enterprise rent a car selling used cars from their fleet, one problem the told people they had passenger side airbags. They didn’t. During the course of the story the said while it’s not against the law to sell a car without passenger side airbags now, it will be next year. If that’s true that will do wonders to the used car & classic car market.
“subsidized fornication” — you’re one tough momma, Mary! I do agree that we should have had a Child Support (for dads) unit l-o-n-g before our agency did. But, come on, that’s part of boys being boys (!). You run off and don’t pay for your children’s living expenses. Some of the mothers don’t ever want to lay eyes on the abusive, alcoholic, lazy guy again.
I believe we need a safety net. You and UtahWoman disagree.
dire straits
Brothers in arms
My music choice tonight sums up aptly the current events.
Last night (well, very early this morning to be exact), I posted a video of about 5.5 minutes of John Pilger speaking (most strongly against Obama) at a conference in San Francisco on July 5th of this year. He has written and spoken out against oilsoc many times. Here is a link to the entire speech (about 32 minutes) there is some pretty powerful stuff in there. Many may disagree with some of it. At the same time, he calls out the disasters that are Bush and Obama. and He uses the words of many of our “best and brightest” writers. He also acknowledges those writers.
If you are interested in hearing the entire speech here is the link:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23301.htm
A link to the 5+ minutes directly pointing at Obama is here:John Pilger Says That Obama Is A Corporate Marketing Creation.
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23281.htm
Going to add Money for Nothing?
P4P ~ @9:17
I was just thinking the same thing!
leslie — After reading your earlier post on Pilger, I researched him and found an article entitled “The Madman did well.” We indeed did buy a brand and asked few questions.
I looked in my youtube history tonight and found 10 videos of a political nature had been removed — 8 of these were about Obama. Is he wiping the video slate clean to have no record for anyone to draw on in the 2012 electoral cycle, or are the videos being pulled for legitimate reasons?
CNN had “breaking news” about the nuclear option for health care legislation, so I blogged about it.
http://daysofchange.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/day-287/
artemis — I noticed the same thing at youtube. Missing videos on Obama. I tried earlier today to locate them (to no avail)
Also today, I received an email with information and an address http://www.ObamaSmearBusters.com
This replaces the page at the WH where you could turn in friends, family, and acquaintances for thinking bad thoughts.
Yup transparency and change. Ya gotta love it! /snark
“you’re one tough momma, Mary!”
You betcha, artemis.
I was thinking not only of the AWOL fathers, but of the women who lay babies like lice lay eggs because the state makes it profitable for them to do so. More children = more $, more food-stamps, more free lunches, more rent-subsidized bigger apts or houses, …and more unloved and unnurtured children.
Government programs are a regressive tax on the poor. Anyone on Medicaid has better health insurance than the working poor. In New York, if you mke more than $130 a week, the state will let you pay $100 a month for their insurance. That prlan has co-pays and services not covered.
Anyone think that should be the other way around? Maybe the people with no job should get health insurance for catastrophic illness and not 4 free sonograms for pregancnies with absolutely nothing wrong? I know med techs that have to do these while people on paid insurance get 1 unless medically necessary.
These are things no one wants to talk about. This is what people are annoyed about.
Hey all. Just came across this on Twitter-and UW doesn’t have a tip area anymore. Just one more reason to be fans of our royal couple…this about our First Lady. But it goes with all the reckless spending theme…and UW’s frequent observation that the agenda is “for thee, not me”.
Hope y’all can laugh so your heads don’t explode. 😀
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/13827
Palin4Prez, on August 18th, 2009 at 11:25 PM Said:
Yup. I just read the Dem’s are planning the “nuclear option” for Obummercare. Seems like yesterday they were screeching about a similar threat from the other side.
OT- uppity I would be over the moon if you cross posted my bank holiday post.
sorry it took so long to get back. scrambling for the long green like everyone else.
P4P you are absolutely correct about coverage. I’ve had the unfortunate circumstance to be around clinic and hospitals A LOT the past couple of years. There is only one pediatric clinic in my area so everybody gets treatment for their children there. I’ve been told approximately 2/3 of the patients are medicaid. I don’t know if that is true or not, but what I do know is that anything they needed was paid for and so many things we had to fight for as private insurance customers.
Some tests that really weren’t necessary unless a problem arose were routine for medicaid patients. We needed one such test because our child had a specific problem but we had to pay out of pocket as our insurance company didn’t cover it. The particular issue affects 8- 11% of the population so routine testing without some evidence of a problem is stupid…conversely refusing to pay for testing when there is evidence of a problem is stupid and potentially fatal.
The system we have sure does seem backwards sometimes.
also OT – and to be really obnoxious – my friend has made a doco on her experience with breast cancer – and i really want to get the word out. She is a photojournalist who documented the whole thing. As a person who’s step mother just went thru chemo i feel strongly that the more the stigma is removed around BC the better
http://www.liberalrapture.com/2009/08/annie-wells-from-arms-length.html
Okay. I ‘m done I promise. Except to say – thank god you’re still here uppity.
Hal,
Agreed!
P.S. are you the robot from 2001: A Space Odyssey?
surfer,
You got it all in: crash, cough, coup.
This healthcare blah, blah, blah is going on a little bit too long, methinks. We know it’s always been his intention to pass the bill by reconciliation, thereby proclaiming his sovereignty and alleged invincibility, as well as his contempt for the American people and the Constitution..
We also know 0 is the master of distraction. I have an idea or two, but would welcome your speculations on what he’s covering up this time.
btw, so far I haven’t been able to find it, but I’m guessing that Goldman was originally spelled with two n’s: Goldmann. Have you ever come across that spelling for the bank or family name?
You are on my read list every day John.
I LOVE REAL progressive men! There are so few of them left what with the Regressives having appropriated the word Progressive for themselves. But we all know what they really are.
Well, Mary, let’s punish the children of these women and men by putting them out on the street with cups to beg for money.
At least, you would have liked that I pushed birth control. Just not far enough, it seems. Joking aside, many of my clients held suspect anything I promoted because I was from the agency/government.
Let’s ease up on the snark. You know how I hate work.
Are you addressing me, uppity? I don’t know how to do “snark”.
Next thing ya know, the government will be extracting UOweTheGovt taxes from the grave.
“Well, Mary, let’s punish the children of these women and men by putting them out on the street with cups to beg for money.”
artemis,
Your words, not mine–not even mine by implication. My base plan is very simple. I suggest a law which says people not receiving public assistance can have all the children they want. Those receiving public assistance will receive no public monies for the care of children. Those children who are currently beneficiaries of public assistance will be maintained by the government for X number of years.
I think society would be amazed at how quickly illegitimacy among the poor would stop once the profit was removed. Then maybe we can talk about education, job training, and other adult ways of becoming functioning, non-infantilized adult.
Mary, some of my children were orphans. Some parents were strung out on drugs or alcohol (shift work in ’70 textile mills, among other stresses). Some were “limited”, a term we used for either lack of intelligence or education. I had some ill and mentally ill parents. (I had some welfare cheats.) We were the last resort.
You can try to legislate no tax-funded care for illegitimate children. I made my first comment because your suggestion would have never occurred to me as a viable solution. Our streets would more than likely begin looking like India’s or like countries who don’t have a welfare system.
In a country who’s moved most of their manufacturing jobs over-seas a family of 4 living on minimum wage — $7.25 an hour, even with 2 or 3 job-earners in the family will find it difficult to provide for their children. In my state such a family can receive $588 a month in food stamps. The lowest regular gasoline that I could find in my city is $2.47 a gallon — a city where a car is a necessity.
Poverty in this country is no fun even when you’re working. We disagree. Let’s move on.
I think we should pay welfare recipients a nice bonus for NOT having a child. Every year, give them 10k for not spawning. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper than supporting another generation and providing health care. No kid, no cost. And yup, I believe the birth rate would most definitely be reduced for that holy free buck.
I feel the same way I do about the $200 school supply giveaway in New York State. Sales of electronics shot up the same day at Wal-Marts all over the state.
If you give people assistance, give them the things you intend to give them. If a family doesn’t have a job or money, put them in an apartment building run by the state. Have them get their meals from a cafeteria like every college student does instead of food stamps. And if you’re proving school suuplies, pay the Dollar Store or Wal-Mart to make up 1,000,000 kits with the same school supplies and give them out with every EBT card.
Am I a target here? If so, I can easily fix that.
UW I see why you love caramel walnut apple pie. I made a couple of those rustic apple pies a few days ago, and reserved the liquid from sweetening the apples. I reduced it over medium heat with 2 granny smiths chopped up in it. Served it over vanilla ice cream with walnuts. YUM!
UW ~
I really hate to get involved in this debate/discussion. But . . .
Does your proposal eliminate support for the babies born as a result of rape and incest as well? I think the basic idea of reward for no children is worth exploring, but I can also see where this proposal has possibilities for abuse, as well as for being used as incentive for abortion, or punishment for women who were forced in some way to conceive. Please do not confuse my thoughts with my feelings about family planning, abortion, personal responsibility, publicly supported families. I, like artemis, work with the poor and recipients of public funding. (I guess artemis worked with them in the past maybe) And I have become more conservative in the past few years, but I also know the realities of the people I serve.
Yes, there is the “holy free buck”. And then there is the single mom who raises a “limited” daughter free of government support. And the daughter, who as a young adult, is receiving funding based on her limitations, is raped and becomes pregnant. This is the family who does not believe in abortion,and who, after adoption counseling, decides to keep the family together. What then?
The holy free buck doesn’t touch this family that has tried to do the right thing all along.
Saw someone comment about FDR and seizing gold. What do you guys think about this.
DE,
This is why I blog about inalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence. If the government has a military, they can make the citizens do anything. At least they can do it for a while. Only the human rights given by whichever creator you believe in are your rights.
For a few years, the US was governed by the Articles of Confederation, but it made the federal government too weak to sustain itself. The Constitution gave the federal government enough power to control the states. Unfortunately, it gave the federal government the power to expand itself. Now we have a strong federal government and weak state governments.
“I think we should pay welfare recipients a nice bonus for NOT having a child.”
UW,
Now that’s a much simpler, more direct, and less litigation-inviting solution than mine.
leslie,
artemis.
Of course we should not victimize the victims of anything, from sexual abuse to mental illness. Any laws that were written to get us out of the welfare morass would need to provide for exceptional situations.
But most of our states, including my own of California, simply cannot sustain a welfare subculture. It is not a kindness to people to keep them dependent on government handouts to the fourth generations and beyond. If anything, it infantilizes people and keeps them from becoming adults, that is, individuals who are responsible for their own lives.
Certainly there are many politicians who want to keep a sizable segment of the population dependent on their Party.That’s one way they get votes. UW pointed out to us during the primaries that it’s the same trick the Democrats use on women: Vote for us or Roe v. Wade will be overturned. As UW further pointed out, Roe v. Wade is not going anywhere.
Same with welfare recipients: Without us you’ll die in the streets. You are incapable of helping yourselves. In other words, welfare has become government manipulation through fear.
Mary,
I agree with much of what you have just said. The states absolutely cannot sustain public funding as it now stands. And the sense that people are enticed to become dependent on – even imprisoned by – the system that can and often does create a population of irresponsible adults, is often validated by what I see on a daily basis. And yes, it is quite possible that the Party likes and even wants it that way in order to stay in power.
That said, it is victim blaming when people cry out against the “welfare mother” (like the young woman I mentioned earlier). Because there is nothing to distinguish her and others like her, from the people who scam that very same system. Go to the public aid office sometime. See people who are in real need being disrespected, degraded and treated with such disregard, that you might just want to scream at those public aid workers. These applicants are not real people to the state. I have also seen public aid workers being treated rudely, too. I used to wonder why they stayed in their jobs. (And I’m not beyond thinking that the states like it this way. They treat the workers like crap and then the population that is in need gets treated the same way.)
This is a system that was initially established to help people for a short term. It is not necessarily the fault of the poor that the system has become a way of life. But to abruptly discontinue it is no solution either.
I am shaking my head because you and I have also been victimized – maybe on different sides of the spectrum, but we are polarized, too. Is it so that when there is no other distraction (war, health care, the economic “downturn”, etc.), we become a nation of haters of one another? I do not see conspiracy everywhere. But as I was writing, the thought that even though I have to work, I see people “getting” what I have to work so hard for. There are times when I resent having to work this hard when others do not. Then I wonder how/if I’d even “make it” if I had to go through what those (the people I serve) have to survive.
okay, I’m babbling and I have to leave for work. maybe I’ll make better sense tonight. (somehow that makes no sense whatsoever.)
Nah you’re not babbling, Leslie!
You see the problem here is this kind of help was never meant for Life. The anger comes from places such as my city, where half of the people are paying for the other half’s well being, either in exempt properties or welfare.. These are not rich people. These are people who work hard, pay their taxes and many of them are retired on fixed incomes. What money they have, they worked for and saved. Even that has been eroded, yet they watch their taxes go up in leaps and bounds and they find that their own security is being seriously threatened by what it is costing them to “help out” for what looks like Forever. At this pace, eventually they will all be as poor as the people they are helping. And so, yes, people are angry. Welfare is very important for people in need of a boost. But it was never meant to be a way of life, and I am sure nobody here wil argue that it has become a way of life for far too many. I’ve known a fair number of people who used that boost well and brought themselves out of poverty. I see them as an ever decreasing minority now. There is something wrong with this picture.
Mary speaks of children and I understand what she is saying. You can’t just irresponsibly keep having kids you can’t afford. It is not only unfair to the kids, it’s unfair to the people who are paying taxes. It is also unfair to you, because it makes it exponentially more difficult to leave poverty when you cannot work because you have to stay home with your kids. In the USA we smugly tell welfare mothers to stay home with their kids and go to work. As you can see, this is a No Win situation. Mary is simply pointing this out because it is real.
Schools have become parents, clinics, restaurants, psychologists and education is like a side issue now. This also angers school tax payers who see the costs spiraling out of control and, to put it simply, they can’t afford it any longer. If the idea here is to make everyone poor, we’ve got a good start. If the idea here is to encourage people to lift themselves up, we are dismal failures. You can’t help people who won’t help themselves.
As a side note to my last comment, we are seeing people flee states like california and New york in leaps and bounds. They are doing this because they see their own way of life threatened by the demands of others. America needs to take heed of this. The richest among them will leave the country. Many of them already have their villas elsewhere. The middle class will just Move. And the federal government will eventually be unable to endure the subsidies necessary to make the entire country poor.
That’s something Glenn Beck says. Alinsky’s method is to overburden the government with social programs until the government is destroyed. In that sense he agrees with Ayn Rand.
It’s just a matter of which extremist side takes us closer to hell in any given year. After years of Beck’s brand of politics, I am pretty convinced that the only difference between his philosophy and what we are suffering right now is a choice between death by fire or death by drowning.
Mary, I live in a (mostly) conservative southern state that was not liberal with its programs or treasury. We have much different experiences on this subject — state and welfare. If you are not aware of the changes to welfare in 1996, you might find you agree with the republicans’ “Personal Responsibilities and Work Opportunities Act”. I, of course, have many questions about its implementation. The link is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Responsibility_and_Work_Opportunity_Act
leslie — I was a young social worker in the ’70s in an AFDC unit, living in a city/county whose main industry was textile mills — managerial and shift work. My job was stressful, but I learned more there than in any job since. I had only 2 unpleasant incidences. I’ll explain how to react when a outraged grandmother gets ready to slap you after you’ve asked the Family Court to give the agency custody of her toddler grand-daughter (her daughter was strung out on drugs): you stop trying to reason with her, become quiet, and begin nodding your head up and down slowly in agreement with everything she’s saying.
If I’m not mistaken, Clinton signed that because it was his major weak point with voters in the 1996 election. Then he promoted it like it was his idea.
That is unless she brings out a gun, then you’re on your own!
Hell George Bush promoted everything he did like it was his idea. Everybody knows he never had an idea that wasn’t Dick’s first. Bill didn’t have a problem with voters in two elections. He wiped his opponent twice. Even with a bunch of witch hunters chasing after his zipper and his “wag the dog” in Afghanistan, which, as I recall was described by Republicans as a way to get the heat off of his Monica problem. Oooooooops! Guess they were wrong. I just don’t understand why the hell Republicans can’t get over Bill Clinton, aside from the fact that they were horrendously jealous of his popularity. Most of us democrats have a laundry list of why we think Ronnie was no saint but we don’t spend our time dwelling on it.
Bill Clinton: Last time we had a surplus.
The problem is people don’t have to do a damned thing for their welfare money. We should be offering them jobs then give them to an employer to work for their money and food stamps. Then if they do a good job, they can actually be hired for a Real Job. Then they won’t need our help any longer. If you create a state where nobody has to work to be taken care of, then don’t be surprised if NOBODY works.
I would add a rider. People with disabilities are not included in my statement.
Bill Clinton: Last time a guy won with 43% of the vote.
UW,
I was proposing last night that we treat the people on government assistance like they were on a campus. No rent vouchers, just apartment complexes. No food stamps, just a cafeteria with meal times.
Where I live, there’s a senior community where the company that owns it gets as much Medicare money as possible to get people to join up. Now, the only way you can pay your share is if you’ve retired well anyway. Why should we subsidize gated copmmunities for seniors? I don’t want people to be punished with institutional living, but I want people to realize that being on government assistance means they’ve lost something. If the trade off is worth it, then fine.
Have you read the link I offerred?
People with disabilities receive SS and some receive SSI, which the orphaned children and the boys with MD also received. Payments are getting tangled here; the 2 orphaned sets of children were drawing off their dead parents’ SS accounts.
gawd, I hope ya’ll were this upset over the unnecessary Iraq War and the military budgets over the last 9 years.
Let’s give it a rest.
Yup I was upset over that too. Like I said I’m a centrist. I am upset whenever anybody misuses funds. I’ll give it a rest when i give it a rest. I’m not tired. Maybe later. Kindly stop trying to send people to the principal’s office.
And while I know I am dumb and you are smart, I am more than familiar with what SSDI and SSI are as opposed to welfare. Many people on generational welfare never worked long enough to even qualify for Social Security when they get old. That would be 40 lousy quarters out of their lazy-assed lives. But they sure known about that SSDI. I also am sick and tired of the half dozen or so people I know who are collecting SSDI and have time to golf. They are not sick enough not to work and everybody knows it. There are too many people like that in the USA. Looking for the free way out.
I absolutely agree with you P4. I would not be happy to subsidize a gated community for well-retired seniors just because they are seniors. Some of the most annoying seniors I know are very well off and you would think someone cut off their air supply if you suggest they kick in a little. They’ve all figured out how to bury their money so that when the need a nursing home they can go on medicaid after medicare runs out. Their kids don’t want to care for them but they sure are hovering over that money.
The link was an update to attempt to settle Mary’s objections with the 1996 reform. No, the problem is I won’t cry, “uncle”, after your press.
artemis ~
I know that it must have taken such stamina and dedication to work where you did. I don’t think I could have. I haven’t had near the education you have. I hope this time of your life is filled with blessings in return for all you did then.
No the problem is, you are a fractious person. Pleasant at times and then you strike. You have done it to me. Twice. I am pretty thick skinned so I can tolerate it. But when you use that condescending tone with other members of this board, your time is up. That would be now.
Leslie, I have no idea how much or how little education you have, but however much it is, and wherever you got it, you provide us with a world of wisdom and sincerity.
UW ~
Thanks for such a generous compliment.
UW ~
I thought I just said thank you, but after I hit “submit” the comment disappeared completely. So I’ll try again.
Thank you for your generous compliment.
Leslie, for some reason you landed in spam. Must be your turn this week. It’s happened to so many people.
Spam, huh?
I thought I smelled something funny. But I was certain it was the skunk outside my dining room window. 😉
We had a skunk on the land last night. Damn thing passes thru at least once a week. My dog goes wild and knows it’s out there so I am tipped off. She has a skunk bark, no kidding. Anyways, it wasn’t long before we got a whiff thru a window. This thing is huge too. And as arrogant as anything could possibly be. Looks at you like MAKE MY DAY.
Lucky you!…LOL !
We also have a raccoon family that forages in the garbage cans just off the back porch. Mind you, I live in a condo, quite near the lake – Lake Michigan….far from the woods or any other habitat of wildlife, except the neighbors, of course. they literally dare you to try to shoo them away. So I just lock the doors and windows and go to bed. In the mornings, there is a mess to clean up, but it beats fighting off the wild life.
BTW: I was talking ’bout the raccoons.
I don’t worry about racoons. They will scatter if they think the enemy is nearby. They see my dog, they leave. But skunks are downright mean and confrontational. They will walk right by you and they KNOW you won’t mess with them.
Looks like the one day I had to go out was one of intense discussion. Will chime in anon
Leslie,
I said in the “For Rent” thread that your comment here was wonderful, by which I mean informational, passionate, and thought-provoking. I look forward to a lively discussion over the weekend.
btw, I second what UW said about your words of wisdom! Schooling and education are not necessarily the same thing. Whatever your amount of the former, you have and abudnce of the latter. Thanks for sharing it.