The Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is a Blue Dog Democrat. The right wing whackos and the Regressive whackos can’t wait to get rid of them. You see, it’s not a good idea to them to have people in congress who are actually rational and look at issues individually. We can’t have consensus! No sir. That won’t work at all. What works for these two sides of the same despicable coin is to have a big thick line drawn in the sand, their way or the highway, toe that extreme line, even though most of America can’t tolerate either of them.
The vitriol between these two sides is really ironic, considering they have both become the very thing they claim to despise in the other side. The Obot left and the Palin right both make me sick beyond description. They have taken chances apiece destroying America for far too long.
Ladies and Gentlemen, our two political parties have been hijacked by fringes who refuse to EVER respect each other. Both of them have attracted America’s most mean, most nasty, most crazy and most horrible creatures. When, oh when, will the silent majority in this country send them all packing? When will Americans refuse to tolerate anger-mongers like Keith and Glenn dominating what once was our Press, people who incite both sides of this extremist and destructive clash of the Destroyers? They have every right to be on the air, but do you not remember that there was a time when some of the programs we see on TV were considered niche ENTERTAINMENT, not MOVEMENTS?
How can anybody not see what is really wrong with American politics and how it got to be the horrible thing it is today through Hijacking? How can you trust either of these sides any longer? They are both to blame for the condition of this country. For one side to blame the other is about as phony as it gets.
Behold, the face of American Politics, brought to us by two sides who can’t wait to blame one another for what they both are.
Filed under: Uncategorized |
--Graphic by Freedom Fairy
"This is not culture. This is not custom. This is criminal."
Uppity Woman 
Uppity, well written, and oh so true. The pictures are so compelling.
I think it’s pretty damned disingenuous for the markos crowd to be pinning this on the far right, when the Congresswoman was someone they had no use for because she wasn’t a stepfordized regressive.
Spot on observations, uppity. Both sides are out there blaming the other, but it is, as you point out, the fringe on both sides. Sadly, the vitriol will have a major chilling effect on public service. Not a lot of qualified people are going to want to be subjected to the abuse and to the threats. I can tell you that the current rhetoric directed at all public servants was a deciding factor for me to leave public service. This week alone, there have been three mail bombs and 19 people shot by crazies targeting public servants. And most public servants, like Gifford, are completely exposed. If any good comes of this horrific event, perhaps a much needed dialog will begin about toning it down. Americans can complain all they want, but inciting hostility toward any group of people, including piblic servants, is un-American.
Hugo, these two fringes’ idea of “dialogue” is “Do What I say”.
I sincerely believe that this is what they want and are happy to see this. As we put ourselves right there into their plan we help to bring America to her knees. It is what they want and then we all become enslaved to a new government.
Meaning we no longer have leaders we have rulers.
I do wish the goddess would stop this insanity. And let’s not forget that self proclaimed “man of god”less, Fred Phelps, who is planning on bringing his WBC side show to picket at the funerals of these poor people.
Thank you, Uppity, you’re absolutely right – again.
True, uppity. And they hate moderates more than each other. They fail to see the need for compromise. It’s so destructive. I hope our “leaders” can use this to overcome the stranglehold these crazies have on our country. But the “leaders” will need to stop playing them for political gain. I would love to hear from Hillary on this. We need some Clinton backbone and intelligence now.
Uppity. Thank you for writing this piece. You have nailed it as ever.
utahwoman,
Very observations. I totall agree. The political right and left are working together to divide we, the people. It’s the quickest way to tyranny and a compliant populace to accept a corportocracy.
DKos blaming of Palin and the media’s complicaty are by design. Their blame game is also indrectly targeting any woman involved with or interested in participating in politics. Welcome to “A Brave New World” brought to you b the wholly-owned corporate media and the bots from both sides of the aisle, who no longer think for themselves.
utahwoman, you make an excellent point. If good people are scared out of publice service, there is more room for those with evil intentions to move in and take over unopposed. The events yesterday and the degeneration of political discourse do threaten our democracy. Another reason to mourn over this tragedy.
These two disgusting extreme fringes WANT to scare candidates away. That way, they can put their own shitbums in office forever. No, they aren’t working together. They both want the same thing though. To Rule as depots. There is no room for both of them. Only one must endure. And we vote for these shitbums every year.
I suddenly feel so tired. I think I see. And what I see is very very bad.
Utah he was using Glock 19 semi. I was sure he had an automatic. Guess not. He must have used that optional 33 shot magazine.
Westboro fringe freaks are planning to show up at all funerals?
This is an act by a lunatic…not a political statement. Wanna see the real face of American politics today? Look at the ones pointing fingers and blaming one side or the other of generating this massacre by opposing the politics of one side or the other.
fucking sick of all of them
Of course they are, McNorman. Yet MORE PSYCHOS allowed to walk the streets. That is what is wrong with this country. We let psychos go on and on until somebody dies first.
The ER doc said that the magazine still had many bullets left. I say optional 33 shot magazine.
Mcnorman, yep, that despicable Phelps already has a youtube video talking about how happy they were about the shooting of these innocent people, and how they were going to picket each and every funeral. Already!
I am with you jay. He is a lunatic.
Instead of examining themselves and who they really are, our Congress is going to beef up security for themselves. Of course, fuck us, they will continue to be the same miserable extremist assholes they always were. This won’t change a thing. You watch.
“These two disgusting extreme fringes WANT to scare candidates away..”
Add to that the fact that American males, as a whole, are filled with fear when faced with any competent, intelligent woman in a postion of power, and all of us, deprived of the leadership these individuals might provide, suffer for it.
Westboro freaks need to go back into a cave. I hear that caves and goats do well with freaks like these.
VERY perceptive, Jerome.
Damn right jay. They make me sick. All of them. We need to clean out DC, but of course, we will never do that so long at both of these horrid fringes have their fringe followers who tend to be loud and mean. They DO incite one another to do horrid things. They scream loudly. Something the rest of the country doesn’t have time for because they are busy working to pay for all of these bloodsuckers whose asses are taking up seats in the White House and COngress.
Honestly, here’s where i turn right. I don’ care if he’s a lunatic. He needs to be removed from the gene pool.
By the way, she WAS his “Target” so it has SOMETHING to do with politics.
Marcos tweeted to Palin “Mission accomplished” Imagine of all people, Marcos, accusing people of inciting threats and violence. How many of us were victims of those people in 2008, putting up with threats daily. And I DO mean threats. Fuck the whole lot of them. they belong in the same room with the UnChristian Right.
As a side note, I have a forboding feeling that they are painting the picture of Gifford’s condition with some glitter. I see no way that she could survive without brain damage unless there really IS a miracle. If she walks from this intact and capable of being a Congresswoman again, I will most certainly rethink my relationship with God.
Do any of you remember when the Regressives made it very clear that if Obama didn’t get the nomination there would be torches and pitchforks in denver? These sweet innocent people who are soooooooooooo outraged when it suits them.
Hospital News Conference with updates in MINUTES. Turn your TV on to whichever poisonous network you are watching.
I think a firing squad would work well. Penalty for killing a federal judge is death. If he is allowed to call “insanity” then send him for a lobotomy.
Markos is a freak and should be held in a cage with the Westboro gang.
LET US PRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She is young UW. She is in very good health. She will do well. Will she be the same as before? Unlikely, transhemispheric damage.
We can, UW. It is only the politicians and the punditocracy who think we’re such fucking stupid lemmings that we can’t think for ourselves.
MSNBC is already blaming the Tea Party for this. In FACT (caps intentional), the glue that holds the majority of the Tea Party together is an effort to cut wasteful spending.
Sure, there are extremists on either side, just as there are Jihadists and Muslims; Christian churches and Jesus camps.
In their effort to scam their way to fame, both the MSM and politicians from both sides are fanning the flames of vitriol.
Now, the fruits of their handiwork couldn’t be more apparent and what are they doing? Throwing more logs on the fire and pointing fingers.
Kudos to the truama team. This was a big hit with all of those people and lots of different trauma.
Oops- left out my last word:
“Jerkoffs!!!”
Dear Anthony,
xxoo.
Aunt Uppity loves you.
Uppity, even though I wasn’t affected, I remember all the nonsense during the primarys and election – the veiled and sometimes very open threats of violence. I used to read DKOS until that sheite started. Axelrove’s paid astroturf organization was very effective in driving the Hillary supporters underground – and yes they employed fear, threats and other less savory intimidation tactics. It was horrific. So for these minions now to be saying – it’s their fault – is ludicrous. It’s all “their” (far left and far right) collective faults for unleashing that vitriol in the first place. You cannot print personal information about people you think are opposed to your ways, advocate murder (subtly of course) and then pretend that you are guilt free and it’s the other side’s fault. It boggles the mind all of the whitewashing and mud throwing going on today in the intertubz. A child is dead, a federal judge is dead, 14 other people are dead, and one is fighting for her life, and all these cretins can think of is throwing blame at the other side. Shades of the crusades. Cretins all.
checking tc and skydancing,be back depending on you for input since i can;t hear very well. hugs all around .thanks
Yes, and let’s have him stare at that gun for awhile…kinda like Russian Roulette until the real one comes through.
Love ya foxy. Don’t be long!
Bloggers who gravitate to dakiniland.wordpress (as I do!)…….you need to update your blogroll to
http://skydancingblog.com/
Prayers and all good thoughts for the dead, the injured and their families.
Even the corpse of a 9 year old child can’t compel the ideological monsters at DKos or at Westboro to stop and self-reflect. It’s beyond disgusting and inhumane.
i,m baaaaaak the news is fresh n hot here..hugs all..
hugs right back atcha foxy and to all Uppityites. Today is a good day for hugs.
Yes Foxy we are all definitely fresh. And hot. lol.
Finally, the sheriff acknowledged the woman who disarmed him as he was reloading. No name. One question about her. Still no name. Last thing said: She was wounded as she struggled for and GOT the gun. from the Arizona Shooting Press Conference Live now on CNN
green, typical. It was a “female” after all. I wonder if these people realize how misogynist that is. Perhaps herlo can get all the details from her connections?
The woman was shot before grabbing the weapon. Sheriff says mentally ill people should go back to institutions
Candy Cariotti, anchor on CNN keeps blaming speech for the actions of this schizophrenic Do not buy into this. They want us to shut up so they can exploit us in peace
Maybe it is Candy Crowley – CNN Live -had the press conference
The press doesn’t appear to care to find out who the woman who stopped that freak is. So what else is new?
I was thinking that the woman who disarmed him may not want her name out there. Not everyone would. It could also be if she was wounded, they are withholding the name until she can OK is being announced.
Was it not a woman who took down the Ft Hood shooter as well? As I recall the MSM did not exactly go out of their way to portray that in a positive light and some were saying she went overboard in her response. You know, those uppity women can be soooooo emotional over innocent people being killed becuase of some nutso’s warped sense of reality.
I am avoiding the teevee people and just getting updates on line. I do not want to see that motto of “let no crisis go to waste” in action. Reading is bad enough.
OMG – was just looking for a statement (if any) from HRC. Went to the “Team Hillary Clinton” site and read the most horrible crap about how awful Palin is and how wonderful Olbermann is for apologizing that he “inadvertently” MAY have incited violence against Hillary during the Primary.
Made me want to puke. I actually watched all 9 mins of Olbermann’s Holier than Thou DERANGED RANT.
He and Kos and Beck and the rest of them need to STFU and leave America ALONE. THEY are the problem. They and they alone.
FF, Hillary is the SOS, she cannot be seen to be interfering in domestic matter – and team Hillary is not Hillary Clinton. I expect that she is awaiting direction for that wonderful, great communicator (gag) Obama before making a comment. She will
After what you wrote, I won’t bother going to that site either and I agree wholeheartedly with your last comment. They all need to STFU – for a change.
Oh Olbermann kind of like maybe almost apologized. I guess that makes him okay now. Not in my lifetime. He holds this presidential travesty in his hands along with the rest of that Regressive crowd.
Ani it is a true description of both them and their flip side. I just went over to the s**** P**** facebook and nobody is mourning for any child there either. Just a lot of back and forth hatred and disgustingly despot-style behaviors between two revolting extremist hijacking ‘sides’.
That’s why I don’t join “Team” anybody. Somebody takes charge and it all goes south. Just like Team Sarah.
Bloggers at Echidne are doing the same thing — it is Palin’s fault. But it is time for the sisters and brothers to talk to oneanother seriously about free speech. We are all on the same side as feminist but there is disagreement here. I am all for free speech as long as specific individuals are not targeted. But it is legitimate to TARGET political districts and the politicians you desire to replace. I believe we can use words like targets and reload and I understand what these words mean. I think the meaning of these words is deliberately distorted by political opponents and corporate elites. I believe incidents of violence are used cynically to induce guilt in those who have legitimate grievances with the system. Right now the left is using this violence cynically to silence the tea party because they can’t seem to win on the issues.
This is what I mean — the left can’t get a hold of this issue so they say the tea party incites violence.
I posted this the morning of the shooting
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/07/news/companies/California_blue_shield_rate_hike/index.htm
Why aren’t the Dem’s investigating these insurance company rate hikes ?–I do not care if it is state controlled. Pass legislation to cross state lines as Uppity wants. In any case investigate their profit margins, corporate pay, denial rates and monopoly agreement. Assist the states to do so if that is the only way to do it.
Then, if it is determined that the rates are detrimental to the economy and the insurance co must have them for full coverage, go to everyone on Medicare and regulate the hospital, pharmaceutical and medical supply reimbursement.
Instead the Dem’s are letting the repubs take the initiative; saying Obamacare is causing the rate increases and using that to build support for complete repeal. Repeal of all the good stuff such as forbidding refusal of insurance for prior conditions, going back to the old system WITH THE NEW HIGHER PREMIUMS! Pre-existing condition is why Elizabeth could not leave Edwards.
But instead of making these kind of arguments, or blaming the Dems for not making the arguments, the left says the tea party incites violence – they are evil – don’t vote for tea party. This is a losing tactic perhaps not in the short run for their candidates but in the long run for the people.
They might not be releasing her name because she took four shots and is probably in critical condition. If that’s the case, I’m sure that the family would prefer their privacy. I think that is why they haven’t gotten a hold of the 30 year old’s fiance or the judge’s family. I feel that the mother of the little girl wanted to vent.
They just said the shooter has been charged – 1 count of attempted murder of federal employee, 2 counts of first degree murder (judge and congresswoman’s asst), and 2 attempts of attempted murder.
I was wondering why so few counts, but then they said because the feds go first, and these charges apply to federal employees. The state will make the charges about the civilian deaths and injuries, including the child.
The filing.
They are no longer interested in the older man. He is not an accomplice. He was the taxi driver who dropped the swine off at the gathering and he went inside with him because they needed to get some change for the fare, or something like that. Anyways, the shitbum was working alone. Just him and all of his other selves.
Ok i see, McN. But the press COULD say that. I do hope she’s okay.
Just saying she is recovering, but who knows? Things like infection or some secondary thing can always take one down after the fact.
psst…. MPD (multiple personality disorder) is having more than one self, not schizophrenia….
tiptoe-ing away
The document says that the judge was doing his official duties, I had read earlier that he lived around the corner and was going to the store there and stopped to say hi…. maybe they’ve found out that he was actually there to speak…?
Mental Note: Don’t try to make a joke around lorac.
This whole thing is an sorry episode indeed. Left loons blaming right loons- right loons blaming the left- and none of them accepting any responsibility.
Twisted. Sick. Abominable.
From the little coverage on the boob tube I am able to stomach it seems the msm is on a mission to blame the tea party and the right. Tea party/right saying the guy had liberal leanings and his choice of reading material proves he was not TP.
The hate speech has got to stop. (And I include Farrakhan, Wright, Beck, Sharpton, the Cheeto crowd – all of them!) What ever happened to civil discourse?
It seems Uppity’s blog is the one of the last of the places where we can agree to disagree and set forth our arguments without threatening each other with bodily harm.
Prayers for all the victims and their families. And prayers for our country. Agree with Uppity- this country needs to stop electing extremists – and that goes for BOTH parties.
Aw, c’mon in the corner with me, UW, there’s lots of laughter here lol
I just found a ridiculous comment in spam that aparently thinks I should feel bad for this shitbag who killed all of these people because the poor baby is ill. I just listened to the 911 calls that go with this horrific event and I am sick and tired of people bleeding for KILLERS. the sooner this freak is removed from the gene pool the better, and it’s also laughable when someone drops out of the sky on this blog and tries to tell me what to feel or what to write. Like yeah, I feel really guilty that I am not just slobbering all over this swine. If people like this were taken off the street BEFORE they do something horrible, life would be a lot safer for everybody else, who incidentally have rights too, expecially the right to be safe from psychos. It’s thought processes like that the stuff in that convoluted comment that has made this world unsafe for people. You haven’t lived until you’ve seen entire families lives RUINED in deference to people like this killer. And when they are done ruining their families, they go out and ruin the lives of others as well.
lorac, I know you talk to yourself and answer yourself in different voices and that’s why you know these things.
Apparently he was suspended from his kindergarten college for his disruptive behavior, and they told his parents he could not re-enroll until he had a psych eval clearing him. The shooter decided to leave school, instead.
So his parents were aware, at least, that the world considered him damaged…. I wonder if we’ll ever hear “the rest of the story”….
Well, you know when you’re last in line, you gotta find SOMEone to talk to! lol
to be honest, I hardly think a nutcase who lists the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books is a Tea partier.
Green, they cancelled the vote to “repeal” health care becuase of the murders. The truth is, none of them have the ability, the courage, the integrity or the thougtfulness to FIX the health care bill instead of dumping it and putting the country back to the same crap we had before, which, really isn’t much different than the crap in the bill in terms of the consumer. Insurance is STILL unaffordable and it STILL works well for everybody except the middle class.
But of course, FIXING the bill would mean consensus. Can’t have that!
It is obvious the parents had no control on him during childhood. He went to adulthood as mentally disabled. What is so wrong about all of that is that society is unable to place controls over people who are without even rudimentary mental faculties. They roam amongst us ultimately.
UW at 430, no one can argue with that point.
Yes that’s right Crier. More accurately, they are out loose in the world until they kill an innocent person.
lorac, often the families protect them. Keep them out of the hospital, etc. They walk on eggs and protect them until something horrible happens. And the horrible happens to someone else who is innocent. I’m sorry, but I can’t buy this kind of compassion for the perps instead of their victims. It’s just so wrong on so many levels.
lorac, I’m very familiar with MPD – living with Zeke educates one rapidly.
Uppity, normally I am firmly against the death penalty particularly when mental illness is involved, as many members of my family have suffered from one sort or another, yet not one of them picked up a gun or any other deadly implement and tried to much less succeeded in killing another living being. It takes a certain type of person to do that. Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Wayne Gacy, Ed Gein, Timothy McVeigh – all certifiable, all deadly with multiple murders. At certain times, society needs to protect the innocent. I suspect this is one of those times.
HT do you think Zeke is living his 9 lives concurrently?
Yes- they are out there running amok. The schools are oh SOOO GOOOD at diagnosing every child that can’t sit still with ADHD and medicating them- but nobody caught that this guy was on his way to murder and mayhem?
Yup Uppity- out loose until they kill somebody- and then we get to pay and pay and pay for their upkeep for the rest of their miserable lives. The lawyers (undoubtedly also paid for by us) will play this for all it’s worth and get their mugs all over the tube. And the bastard will keep living- and living. Witness the Ft Hood murderer- still on our dime.
Well here it comes. Rep Robert Brady of PA is introducing legislation to criminalize anyone using language that may be PERCEIVED as threatening a member of congress. Specifically the targets SP used as examples.
Green- can you give us a link to that story about Brady?
I would like to see how he gets by the 1st amendment.
Uppity, honestly, I think Zeke has the life span of 10 cats. This year he has 9 lives, and those that he doesn’t use up this year is added to the nine for next year. By rough calculation, Zeke will outlive me by 20 years – so far. That won’t be a problem for him, gruesome twosome think he’s great, so they’ll take car of him. Woe become them if they fall afoul of him. I suspect he’s Merlin in a very hairy disguise.
Green, we knew it would come, yet it’s against the constitution, so how on earth are they going to justify it, based on their stated objective to put all legislation to the constitution test. This is just grand theater – it can never go anywhere.
I told you. Nothing will change. Nothing. Nothing. America is being run down by two horrible extremes. Run into the ground. They will never behave like adults. They will never see themselves as part of the problem. Never. We are poorly represented in all ways now. We must stop voting for extremists. We need more Gabrielles and less of them. Far less of them.
Patricia Maiche is the heroine that ran and took down the douchebag.
Mom, you’re right. You don’t stick the word ‘Perceived” in the law of the land either, the moron.
It was just on TV I think CNN but i switch so much — i was trying to make sure i spelled his name correctly he is extending Title 18 which protects the president. I will go see if there is a link -maybe FOX.
One thing is for sure. When things are bad, you can always count on Congress to make it worse. So it was with “Credit card reform”. SO it was with Wall street “Reform”. So it was with Health care “reform”. So it was with bankruptcy “Reform”. Funny, but it’s not hard to pick out the winners when congress makes a law, is it? And when they aren’t helping out their real sponsors, they are making laws written by fools using words like “Perceived,” designed to “Fix” everybody but themselves.
McN, thanks for investigating and finding out the name of the WOMAN who took the scumbag down. Now everyone, count all the times she is mentioned on the news reports.
green, typical. Protection for me but not for thee.
Of COURSE it’s unconstitutional, but it makes for a fine dog and pony show for now. They are so obvious, it’s getting boring.
Here.you.go.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/09/shooting-prompts-legislation-to-protect-lawmakers-officials/
Green,
What about everyone else who are not members of Congress? Even if it was feasible, what kind of criminalization would apply for innocent bystanders? Smells like self-centered thinking. “Perceived” is a flaky term anyway.
McNorman -thank you
Patricia Maiche
Kelly asked that sheriff if she was the woman and he confirmed the name.
Funny how, when it’s THEIR asses they are worried about, they move REALLLY fast. Meantime, the rest of us live with Sharia pushers in the white house and nobody seems to give a shit. We are threatened daily by pedophiles released from prison, no problem. These people just make me sick. The only important people to them are them. Why isn’t he making a law to start putting known psychos in hospitals BEFORE they hurt somebody. Is there anything in his law about 9 year old girls, or the other “Collateral” damage from this country that allows crazy people to walk the streets, offend, go free, offend, go free…..
If they’re going to use the word “perceived”, then I guess they had better just go ahead and criminalize the use of metaphors in total, then. “Perceived” is going to make it very messy.
I’m certain they’ll include examples of DKos’ and the DNC’s use of targets, as well. Hmmpfff. These people are sick, politicizing this tragedy, from the moment it happened. Totally ignoring that he was on the left. I saw a screenshot, he was railing against the right and supporting BO. I’ll bet that won’t see any air time.
This legislation will be ruled constitutional as it also protects federal judges. The only weapon we have is the bill of rights and whenever they can narrow our rights, they will do it. BECAUSE WE HAVE PASSED INTO AN OLIGARCHY -things will never be the same. They first thing we must do is control immigration or freedom is gone.because they use those people to dilute the power of citizens.
you know what is really pathetic? I have been reading other blogs. Not only the left but feminists will support this legislation. pathetic
You cannot use the word ‘Perceived” in a law of the land. Sorry but this is just a show. What congress on both sides SHOULD be doing is examining themselves and the followers they incite daily. That’s what they should spend their time doing. Not examining each other, but themselves. Seriously. And when they are done, they should be examining why we allow known offenders to get another chance and why we let known mentally ill people go unchecked so that they can do these horrible things. The signs were there for this guy and once again…………nothing was done.
It’s a waste to even worry about it Green. It won’t stand the test. Using the word “Perceived” is too subjective.
LOL Lorac, under such a law, Olbermann would have been arrested a number of times. Under such a law all the nutroots would have to close down their sites. It works both ways, you know.
Not to worry. I’m sure some right wing whacko is working on his own legislation that is different but just as stupid.
HLS memos accusing American Renaissance of being anti Semitic is based only on the southern poverty law center’s classification of them as a hate group. Their crime? They have controversial opinions about discussing race differences.
Now whether AR are creeps or not, I am more frightened of Homeland Security because Janice has been wrong about everything since Day1 of her rule. Now she is passing around political opinion disguised as “intelligence”. See how it works? Keep this stuff secret – pass it around without transparency and gag the people’s response. -= fascism.
The next attack will be against the people’s right to bear arms; something I recommend to battered women and women who have late night shifts.The left will support that right’s restriction as will feminists.
Green, it took a lot of fortitude for this woman to take the second clip away from him. Can’t say that just anyone would have done it.
I posted this on another website:
There’s APS (adult protective services) to report possible elder (or disabled) abuse, there’s CPS (child protective services) to report possible child abuse – but I can’t think of anything for the ages in between.
Apparently the shooter was suspended from college for his disruptive behavior, and they told his parents he could not re-enroll until he had a psych eval clearing him. The shooter decided to leave school, instead.
The school took action to protect the people at the school, and they notified his parents of the need for psychological evaluation. But there was no notification to the larger world, or to an agency mandated to check him out. Maybe we need an agency like that, something for the people who need help in between childhood and senior status… then the school, or his parents, could have placed a call, and someone would have had to check into the situation – before a tragedy like this happened….
.
perceived is already in Title 18 about the president according to brady
Maloney is on the gun control thing again now. Guns kill. Especially when psychos own them.
The five day old intern was a hero as well. 20 yrs old and runs to pummel the creep. The carnage could have been far worse without these people.
I don’t know why so called feminists would support that law. It will never apply to women. Women are open season. Surely we know this from all the threats we incurred in 2008. Besides, it only protects the big shots. The rest of the country is still on its own.
lorac
its that thing “a danger to himself or others” for involuntary commitment – they hold him for 72 hours –the docs declare him fine and he is out again. Sometimes there is a hearing before they let him out –mad at you for reporting.
Green, immigration is the reason those Arizonans want to carry guns. They all fear for their lives, especially the people who live close to that godforsaken border.
Ahhh jeez, now it’s time to take guns away. How the hell am I gonna kill a nasty rattler now? Talk it into slithering away?
Feminists will support it because of Palin/tea party derangement syndrome. Go read Echidne. And feminists support gun control. Don’t look at me – I never understood this.
No McNorman. Save the Rattlers!!! Just take the bite and shut up. They don’t need to nor can they ‘take guns away”. What they need to do is not let people with known mental issues have them. Just like people with known criminal issues can’t have them. Of course, they can get them anyhow so the rest of us aren’t going to give up ours. It all comes down to self-preservation against the unsavory. All such a law does is make bucks for the black market.
But Green, only certain people can place that hold, and only in certain hospitals. Perhaps it varies by state, I don’t know. But here, regular hospitals cannot put a 72 hr hold on someone – someone from a psych hospital has to come to put the hold on, so the person can be transferred against their will to the psych hospital.
But my point is, the stricken person has to be in contact with an appropriate person before that hold can even be placed. There’s no way, to my knowledge, that someone can place a call, as they can with APS and CPS, and a professional goes TO the stricken person to check them out. So it’s still left to the regular people around the stricken person to GET THEM TO the help. Otherwise, they may not be in contact with an appropriate professional until something really bad has happened.
Congress: Knee-jerk, reactionary fools who never fix anything and only make things worse. Physisicans, heal theyselves!
Like I said, I’m not ever helping S**** P****. I don’t respect her because she doesn’t respect me.
I’m kind of embarrassed for them, UW. I think this scared them, they’re scared for themSELVES, and they’re reacting – in public view.
Yup Lorac, here in WI we can make the call as long as we can show by clear and convincing evidence that he is a danger to himself or others. Cops make the final decision. It is a big help if he threatens the cops. Then they put him in the squad and take him to the hospital. Usually the person has to be incoherent and acting crazy or threatening.
Wow, I wish the parents had made a call like that.
Lorac you are correct because when they get him to the one hospital in every county that does this, that hospital has to agree to keep him for 72 hours. They do a determination to decide.
But you’re saying the police go out – that must be why there needs to be threatening. At that point, it’s already gone too far. I’m wishing there were a way people could place a call to get someone like him checked out earlier – all that talk about mind control and new money – the police might have disregarded that, but a professional would have known he needed treatment.
But I suppose, if you’re still at the point where you aren’t hurting anyone, you have the right as an adult to have weird thoughts. He was able to take care of himself (feed, clothe, bathe, etc), so he couldn’t be accused of self-neglect. It’s not against the law to be crazy, and you can refuse treatment.
But really, when the school told his parents he needed a psych eval to come back, they really needed to get him some help. It’s possible they tried, and he refused. But that should have been a huge wake up call for them.
Oh, Green, THIS feminist believes that “gun control” means hitting what you aim at!
I just renewed my NRA membership to protect my 2nd Amendment rights, even though the whiplash is keeping my chiropractor busy 😉
But they never keep them lorac –it makes no difference — because at the very very most they put them on meds, stabilize them and release them. Do you PROMISE to take your meds every day? Oh yes sir, I will. OK we will drive you home with a prescription.
Yaaaay Val but you are my kind of feminist you honey bun!
Most people wouldn’t feel the need to have a gun if they knew that criminals and crazies weren’t given so much leeway in the USA. Not even Life in prison means Life in prison any longer. We’re busy incarcerating people who smoke pot. Americans don’t feel safe any longer, I’m talking law abiding Americans. That’s why gun sales have risen so dramatically in the past few years. And especially why gun sales to women have spiked.
Yes they put them on meds with a promise. The thing is, so many of them stop their meds when they start to feel good. Nobody keeps tabs and the cycle begins again.
There are longer holds, but they’re for the really impaired. Often when someone has been brought in and medicated, their crisis subsides, and they don’t need to be there any longer.
But you’re right, many people stop taking their meds. They don’t like the side effects, or feel like they make them “someone else”. It’s best if they have some type of case manager in the community that they have to check in with on a regular basis. But they’re usually pretty overworked.
It’s a tough situation. As long as they aren’t hurting others, and can provide for their own basic needs, people are allowed to be free with mental illness. There are homeless people who want to stay that way – it feels like “freedom” to them.
lorac, all the police do with crazies is say they can’t do anything because the person hasn’t done anything. Yet. Look at these crazy stalkers. They go on and on until they kill or are killed. For my money, I would want to kill one before he killed me. A gun and a big dog. It’s the only way to protect yourself. Otherwise, you’re a sitting duck these days, because the law is far too lenient on criminals and psychos. They have to kill first and it’s best everyone make sure they are not the victim. There simply is no other way left. at least now they have to let victims know when these freaks are releasedf from prison, so they can live the rest of their lives in fear. I’m telling you, our system is seriously broken. Rapists get out. Pedos get out. Killers on furlough have killed. Americans aren’t safe any longer and there is no interest in the victims, just the criminals.
Thanks fro the link green- I just read it- I have never heard of this guy before- he represents Philly? Trying to get his 15 minutes of fame. I don’t think legislation like that would stand up in court. But hey- I grew up in the old America- my parents said “Sticks and stones…..” You all know the rest.
On another note- I just found out a relative that supported Ofraud has withdrawn support. Reason? The phone call supporting Vick.
Seriously- some people should have to take a test before they vote.
Good observation.
someone posted this in the comments on pumapac – ha! a middle aged woman knew what was what!
There were warning signs about Loughner it appears but no one followed up on it. These are emails from a fellow student who attended a math class with him in June:
Jared Loughner’s behavior recorded by college classmate in e-mails
By David A. Fahrenthold
In early June, Lynda Sorenson, 52, had gone back to community college in Tucson in hopes of getting back on the job market. One of her classes was a basic algebra class–and one of her classmates was Jared Loughner, now identified by authorities as the man who killed six people and critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) in a shooting rampage Saturday. Sorenson’s e-mails to friends from last summer, provided to the Washington Post, reveal her growing alarm at Loughner’s strange and disruptive
behavior in class.
From June 1, the first day of class:
“One day down and nineteen to go. We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I’m not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon.”
From June 10:
“As for me, Thursday means the end to week two of algebra class. It seems to be going by quickly, but then I do have three weeks to go so we’ll see how I feel by then. Class isn’t dull as we have a seriously disturbed student in the class, and they are trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he does something bad, but on the other hand, until he does something bad, you can’t do anything about him. Needless to say, I sit by
the door.”
From June 14:
“We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living crap out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird. I sit by the door with my purse handy. If you see it on the news one night, know that I got out fast…”
The class’s instructor, Ben McGahee, said in an interview Sunday that Loughner had been removed from class in its third or fourth week, because of repeated disruptions.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-recor.html?hpid=topnews
Green and Uppity, so true. My next door neighbor’S son was a schizophrenic. I always tried to be inclusive and nice to him, inviting him into my home several times. Just yesterday, gruesome male – all 6 foot 1 and total muscle, told me that I was nuts to invite him in, that Ry was terrified “George” would hurt me, or anyone in the home. I never realized that my son was so concerned. Sometimes us liverals get caught in our own petard.
Yup. I guess everybody was just supposed to stay scared and put up with it because he has rights and they don’t. Then they just needed to sit around and wait for him to kill somebody, just like he did in the end. How many things can you find wrong with this piciture?
Very good post Uppity and comments discussion is right on the mark, calm, focused and not knee jerk.
Thank you for your post Uppity. I’m going to ditto BigCat’s comment.
I’m staying away from all news sources today, just can’t handle the insanity of their reporting.
Praying for the victims and their families.
This is a link to photos of those who lost their lives yesterday.
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Arizona-Rep-Gabrielle-Giffords-shot-during-public-event/ss/events/pl/010811giffords
Bucks for the black market is right UW.
I’m not saving any rattlers. I will surely ship them to anyone who thinks they can talk themselves out of a bite though.
Thanks Uppity and everyone for your information. Been at a wedding and didn’t have time to post anything. Horrific, horrific situation. My prayers go out to all.
No surprise with congresscritters trying to draft legislation to protect them from everyone. No surprise the left and “feminists” are in there supporting them. Too bad they couldn’t support Hillary, but then she’s only a woman…sigh.
Meds
Or they lose the Rx coverage. Watch what happens once ObamaCrapCare begins. I’ve seen people who call their docs for the renewal and the guy refuses to answer the phone or is gone. No meds is a recipe for disaster.
Great article Uppity. The best I have read on this insanity.
Excellent Post, Coverage and Comments, Uppity and Uppityites.
In my state, if a person has been diagnosed as mentally ill, schizophrenic, etc.,even if they threaten you or hit you and you call the police, they are not charged with an ASSAULT CRIME because of what is called “a culpability issue” — they are considered “not culpable for their actions because of their illness.” Most are well aware of this, too.
This is the case, even if they have refused to take their medications, despite the fact that they receive SSD and other state benefits because of their diagnosis.
Under law, they cannot be made to take the medications – which is what should be changed. A law that stipulates they must take the medications prescribed and agree to be monitored or lose their freedoms and have their benefits allocated to residential facilities for their care.
Three strikes without medication and they should be remanded to a Mental Health Group Home where they are “incarcerated” among their own “non-compliant rebels against a chance at relative normalcy” kind — whereby, the SSD benefits and Public Services benefits are allocated to that residential facility.
I got pummeled by a repeat offender of “I’m not taking that shit medication!” trying to protect his 85 year old father from getting knocked to the ground – again.
The police explained “his rights” to me – took him to a mental health facility, which released him several days later to show up right back at his parent’s home, laughing at us like at hyena on steroids.
HT
He could hurt your animals. maybe not -some sick people are kind to animals. I don’t know him but watch their behavior around him. He could come when you are gone. No, you should not have him at your house and now you should take steps to safeguard your animals.
Yup like i mentioned earlier about the ex relatives’ son. Killed everybody’s dog. Smacked his mother around. He had to be contained in the basement with big men holding their shoulder on the door waiting for them to come and get him. This was a regular event with him. And still his mother protected him and he was loose more often than not. To me, this was a sign that his family didn’t give a fast shit about anybody but him because people’s lives were in danger wherever he was. He threatened to kill simply everyone. How would you like to be on a freak like that’s “Hit list”. I was because I helped have his ass carted away one day. These people are horribly dangerous and I will tell you true, I wouldn’t have hesitated to shoot him if he headed for my home. In fact, that was the time I got my first gun. I have no idea where he is today but wherever it is I feel sorry for the people around him because he is batshit crazy and should have been permanently locked up long ago. Maybe he died, hopefully before someone else died because of him. Oh and yeah, he had plenty of meds he didn’t think he needed either.
Lorac
Apparently, this is the most common reason people with psych issues stop their medicines. There is also no law that forces them to take the medicines.
The law should say you take your meds or you are institutionalized. They need to come up with some kind of time release way to force these meds into them so they can be somewhat normal and not endanger others. Because too many of them simply stop their meds. the idea that they have to “Volunteer” to be evaluated and medicated is the heart of the problem. For all we know, his parents couldn’t handle him and he refused help. Or they were afraid of him. The law should NOT be on their side with this. Letting things go on as they are gets people killed. Yesterday is the perfect example of this.
Yup, UW. Laws would be helpful in these situations.
Time to open up Creedmor.
Yeah well you won’t see congress moving fast on THAT. They’re too busy worrying aobut their own asses and to hell with the rest of the people in danger.
Creedmor is open. In NY.
It was in the early 1980’s (Reagan era) when federal monies for mental health institutions were cut back, and people were released into community programs. Supposedly more humane than locking people up. Only the most disturbed were to stay institutionalized. We see how well that has worked out. Many just became homeless.
Yes Saint Ronnie did indeed dump psychiatric patients out on the street. I guess that’s why they want to make dollar bills with his face on them. He was such a perfect president. I mean calling ketchup a vegetable in school lunch alone qualifies him for Mt. Rushmore, doesn’t it?
Creedmor largely took its residents that professionals there deemed fit, and released them into community programs. The large resident population was thinned out, and only the sickest stayed. This apparently happened at all the asylums across the country. Just how may of the truly sick remain institutionalized is a good question. They seem to be out and about amongst us.
This
http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/facilities/crpc/facility.htm
They have the teacher on TV, the one who got him removed from school and is telling how he said his rights of free speech were being violated. You should hear this guy tell what he did in that class. No wonder that student was freaked out. The teacher said he was actually afraid to turn his back in class because he believed the creep was going to bring a gun. He’s wincing right now just talking about it. The word one of the student’s used about him was she felt “Menaced”. Nah, no problem there.
Same thing with those two crazies at Columbine. People complained and nobody could do anything until they did something. Well they did. In a big way.
Psychiatrists have an ethical duty to round up their patients if they present an immediate danger to themselves or to others. There’s the problem. They have to be their patients already. It has to be an immediate danger. Otherwise, they are free to roam throguhout society, and act out at will. With or without meds.
Barack Obama (2008): “If they bring a knife to a fight, WE BRING A GUN.”
Barack Obama (2008): “I want you to ARGUE with them and GET IN THEIR FACE.”
GREAT POST ON THIS SUBJECT UPPITY!
Great and very Appropos – unfortunately.
Oh Buttered. You remembered!
Like the old saying goes, “You reap what you sow.”
Anyone entering political discourse would do well to remember, especially the fringes.
There was a blurb up about today’s game between Philadelphia (I think that is who took Vick back) and Green Bay when I checked email.
It made me think of how many people defended Vick because you know it was just dog fighting and we (as in the majority of people) just do not understand. Its cultural. They gloss over the details because this particular psycho was supposed to be this wonder of a football player. They have let him loose on society and awarded him as if he was a Caesar being fawned over as a god.
But he is a nut job. Just – for the time being – a useful nut job to certain people with “pull” so they have decided to ignore all the warning signs. The use the lax enforcement to make money – and do not give a hoot about what harm might be done down the road.
How do you get families with problems members to take a stand when society lets guys like Vick of the hook?
Vick makes the NFL money, period. When he’s done, they’ll discard him like a used kleenex.
And “culture”? My ass. “Culture” got a girl killed because she became too American, remember? I despise “culture” being used as an excuse.
My question is, when is enough enough, and what do we do then? How do we reclaim our way off life and freedoms? How do we encourage those who should run for office and not let them be run off my lunatics like this waste of cells?
Info on the heroine and heroes:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-citizen-heroes.html
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109daniel-hernandez-gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting.html
Plus Mr. Morris attempted to save his wife; Mr. Stoddard died saving his wife.
(Sniff…)
djmm
Check out GM’s new Washer & Dryer Car hybrid.
You know the worst part? I can’t tell if that’s a joke or not, considering the crapboxes like the P.U.M.A. and Peapods they have had the nerve to pimp.
wth? What a creepy little car. Their R & D is probably financed by tax $, so they can spend their time doing silly crap like this.
I am stuffed. We were given a free dinner at a nice restaurant/jazz club. I had New York steak & Lobster Thermidor!!! Brought half home for Laker. The place was Cuban, really cute, and had great Sangria & the best part of the dinner was the salad, the dressing was awesome. Oh, and the plantains were great too. They had a nice R & B band, nice Sat nite out.
Hillary did a speech in the middle east saying, we have extremists at home as well as you do. A wonderful woman was shot in Tucson. So we should work together on extremism.
Interesting use of the murders.
Except it was not extremists. It was a mentally ill
20 year old, whose mother could not afford medical insurance.
Green, he could have been institutionalized and evaluated for free if HE didn’t have the money for insurance. I’m sorry but this isn’t going to fly with me. At age 22, his mother (and he DOES have a father too) was not REQUIRED to give him health insurance. He is an adult. It didn’t matter if he lived at home or not. This is a lame excuse. today we have “kids” pushing 30 still depending on mommy and daddy in one form or another like they are 15. It’s like 25 is the new 18 or something. The truth is, people who have jobs and homes can’t afford health insurance and stand to lose everything if they get sick. Someone who has NOTHING, like this dipshit, could have gone to the emergency room and gotten his sicko ass evaluated and medicated for free. His parents would have not been responsible for his bills. If I were a betting person, I would bet he refused to get any help, his family was scared shitless of him and he was out loose because the law won’t haul these crazies away UNTIL they kill six people. Mentally ill people are being given options not to be treated and that’s wrong. How many of them are rational enough to say Yes. The reason they need treatment is because they aren’t capable of saying Yes. You can BET his lawyer will be screaming for his treatment now and the taxpayers will pay for it just like they would have paid for it BEFORE the freak killed all those people.
My heart does not bleed for ONE MINUTE for this bastard. He should have never been loose. My heart bleeds for the innocent people he took down while he still lives. If Congress wants to make laws in a hurry, and notice how fast they can do it for themselves, they need to address the legal situation that ties the hands of the law with respect to crazy people walking this earth before they kill others.
It’s crazy UW I was married at 22 and we has started a business of our own. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Anyone seen his backyard? I’m not sure, but as a parent I would have had some questions about the weirdness he had out in the yard.
Unless the parents thought he was into design, I’m with you UW…they were scared shitless of the kid.
Yeah DE, I was busy working several jobs and not living off the parental units. This desire to keep these children as children forever is messed up. I believe that my generation and the generation before tried very hard to make life easier for our kids. We forgot that they needed life’s experiences (good, bad, hard) in order for them to understand their responsibility in the scheme of things. Instead, we helped create a generation that is now entitled to the things that they want without being accountable for how to get them. They don’t have to do anything. Barack has assured them that we will be working to the grave in order to provide for them those things that they should already be providing for themselves. 22 is the new 15, no doubt about that. Ask anyone who served in WWWII what they were doing when they were 22, and the answer is not building shrines in their parent’s backyard to God knows what.
mcnorman I left for art school when I was 17, with my parents help but they were in Germany and I was in Ft. Laud. Couldn’t exactly run home to mom and dad.
Waiting for the full transcript of Hillary’s speech to the students at the university in Abu Dhabi- but found this-
“”So rather than standing off from each other, we should work to try to prevent the extremists anywhere from being able to commit violence, to interfere with the rights of girls to go to school…. That’s what the world needs to hear.”
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AoWqUVJKo0aqyNr7NQ1tqLKbvZx4?p=Hillary+Clinton&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701
I see that once again she is championing the rights of girls to go to school. If I find the full transcript later I will link it.
Uppity
YOU cannot afford health insurance –it is not bleeding for this guy to say the real issue is care and or confinement for the mentally ill who are a danger to self or others, not what kind of symbols Sara Palin puts on her maps.
BTW< the Repubs released a 2004 Dem Committee map using the same symbols on a election strategy map.
PMM
I am NOT saying that Hillary should not have said our woman was killed by an extremist because in the words of the I Ching she is talking to pigs and fishes and must speak their language. I AM saying I hope she does not believe it.
The TV news shows are showing world opinion as calling the murders political extremism. They really mean to stop all political protests in this country just like they did to the unions.
The point is, Green, he could have gotten FREE care. I can’t get FREE Care. Nor do I want it, because that’s not the point. The point is, health insurance is NO excuse for this POS to have been walking the streets, nutcase that he is. We need laws to protect US from these crazy-assed bastards. And you don’t get them care by making laws that say they don’t have to if they don’t want to.
As for S*****rah, well fuck her. I think I have made it very clear what I think of her now that I know what she thinks of me. I don’t care if it’s her fault or not. She’s on her own when it comes to this blogger. She slammed Hillary again because she has the class of a yak, and she called her what I am, so she has no use for me either. SO fuck her if she thinks her opinion trumps my rights. I am sick of her shit, she believes in “individual rights” as long as they are rights she approves. That’s the problem with the right wing AND the left wing. They are a reflection of EACH OTHER. They disgust me. Let them neutralize each other. I shall be glad. Then maybe we can get back to a sane government. Don’t turn my blog into hers, because I am not giving her the time of day with her own watch. I couldn’t care less about her maps either. I am not covering her. Period. I posted SCORES of posts for that ingrate and what I got in return was a kick in the ass from her and her rabid followers. i even voted for her. I should have stayed home. It won’t happen again.
McCarthy introducing legislation to keep guns out of the hands of the deranged. How about making a law to keep them off the fucking streets!
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/01/carolyn_mccarth.php
Oops- I gave the wrong link above- this is the correct link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110110/pl_afp/uscrimeshootingpoliticsclinton_20110110135816
The title of the article says “Clinton denounces extremism”
Here is another quote
“We have extremists in my country. We have the same kinds of problems,” Clinton said, describing 40-year-old Representative Gabrielle Giffords as a “wonderful, incredibly brave young woman.”
As I said- I will try to find the full transcript – but from that quote I see nothing calling the maniac an extremist. The quote says “We have extremist in my country.”
God knows she is correct. We have extremists on both sides.
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
Green, let me nip this now. I have asked you one too many times to lay off of hillary. I have given you plenty of leeway. You step over every single time. if you enjoy being on this blog as much as you say you do, then stop. Permanently. I am not kidding here. Just stop this NOW. You offend the members of this blog. I don’t have many rules and this is one of them. This blog has members who are PTSD over 2008. It is THEIR haven. I will NOT have this. I am serious as a heart attack here. Don’t put me in a position because I like you–don’t take advantage of that– but let me be really straight with you. THis pisses me off. THere won’t be another warning. I don’t know what it is with you but it is clear to me you don’t like Hillary and somehow think she should go rogue and make her own rules. I am sick of defending all she has done for women and children. I refuse to go through this with you again, so just cut the shit right now. If you can’t resist, then maybe this is not a good place for you. I am in a very bad mood today Green and I don’t want to go through this shit with you again. I am telling you here and now that I have given you leeway I have never given others. So time is up. If you can’t follow my few rules, then you can’t stay here. You pick.
I have no sympathy for this guy. NONE. If my kid was falling off the deep end I would DO SOMETHING about it. This loons parent’s spawned his sorry ass and did nothing to stop him- so I hold them partly responsible.
I too am sick to death of these madmen getting sympathy after they wreak havoc on us. Then we get to pay for them forever. We pay for their housing, food, medical care, entertainment and education for the rest of their rotten lives.
Prison should be a punishment- three hots and a cot and maybe some books to read. No TV, radio, expensive gym equipment etc.
It’s Hillary’s fault.
I did a long thing at Echidne and i am not going to do it again here. The point is not about supporting Sara or nuts on the street. The point is NOT to let the politicians and corporate media paint these murders as the fault of political extremism.
Because that will end in limiting my free speech, my right to protest, your right to call BO names, and my right to own a gun. The point is not to let left culture divert us from real issues like health care premiums and jobs and the environment by phony issues like symbols and heated speech which some assh–e in homeland security PERCEIVES to be a threat.
The issue here is mental health care and insurance premiums not Sara Palin’s map with targets on it or talk radio anti immigration speech. None of that caused this boy to shoot people. What allowed this to happen is a system that I agree with you about Uppity and that needs to change. But they divert us from that with BS talk about Sara’s maps — not her political positions but her symbols and speech.
Don’t you see the trap?
You are just crazy if you think I am insulting Hillary. What you are saying is don’t mention her. Fine.
Stop saying i am blaming Hillary uppity – i saw her on TV this morning and i knew she was using the murders to try to find common ground with pigs and fishes. I would do the same. I just hope she doesn’t believe it because these murders were not about political extremism. This is important.
Mom, I’ve SEEN the results of these laws. Parents can’t do a thing because these psychos get a choice. They refuse. the most you can do is have their asses hauled away for 72 hours, after which they get out and want to know who signed the paper so they can kill you. They come home and smack their mother around for doing something about their crazy asses. And the family often covers for them without regard for everybody else. I’m all for a mother’s love but not when it endangers everybody else. They get out and the cycle starts again. Eventually, people give up. And then one day the psycho kills an innocent person. When you give insane people choices as to whether they should be treated or not, you get this psycho killing six people in the end. Did you see his ex teacher on TV? The guy is STILL shivering over him. Yet everybody has to tiptoe around doing something about people like this. There is something wrong with a system when you can’t contain people like this. I saw this in action and I can’t tell you how glad I was to get away from that family forever. And yes, these psychos ARE impressionable, so when politicians or other famous people deliberately rile up their “base,” not all of that base consists of normal people. No we should not kill the first amendment for insane people, we should contain insane people instead.
Do not call me crazy.
and you and i are saying the same thing uppity –you are just crabby and i forgive you
The health insurance issue is huge- but it DID NOT cause this maniac to assassinate all those people. There IS free health care out there. More extensive coverage than us paying customers get I might add.
And even if he HAD health insurance- as Uppity noted there is no way to force these lunatics to take their meds.
No this is not about insurance or health care- this is about giving criminals more sympathy and rights than law abiding citizens. This is about the hijacked political parties using every tragedy and crisis to point the finger of blame at the other side.
The majority of Americans who are in the middle need to wake up and find some normal middle of the road neighbors to send to DC.
Green, she set HERSELF up. Not with the maps. The maps were just her frosting. She loves showing herself shooting at things. Do you not think that a “leader” has influence over their followers? Do you think all of her “followers” have all their cans in their six packs? It’s the same as the other side inciting people using the Race Card. Invariably there are crazies out there who will act it out. Remember when they hung her and McCain in effigy? under their own legal ideas, the person who did that would be hauled away. These people need to be careful what they ask for because they are just as odious and just as horrible as the people they want to contain. Rush is a POS, Beck is a crazy man laughing all the way to the bank, but Randi Rhodes could call someone a Fucking Whore and they all jump on board. Keith could say somebody should take a woman in a room and only he comes out. These people are so convoluted they can’t even see they are fighting their own reflection. None of this will come to fruition so why are we wasting our time on it? And frankly, the right should be afraid because they DO act like a bunch of anarchists, just like the left does. It would almost be funny if it weren’t so pathetic that we are stuck with these two crazy fringes actually influencing politicians instead of being told to take their freaking meds and stop acting like they deserve to get everything they want in the world
Agree that we can not legally contain them Uppity. And the 72 hour hold does piss them off.
I was not clear- his parents should have had him evaluated and if necessary committed long ago. I don’t think this just all of a sudden cropped up, though it is possible.
“No we should not kill the first amendment for insane people, we should contain insane people instead.”
As always- you are right on the mark Uppity.
The sun is out- it’s cold cold cold (but not in negative numbers lol) so I am going outside. The attorney just called and said not to worry- it will be a long time before a hearing is scheduled- and I will not have to drive to MA- he will appear for me. The conciliation process will start now. And he is going to light a fire under them about why they are denying payment for my scripts. And find out why the hell they have not paid my mileage reimbursement.
You want to define the “issue here”. That’s not the issue here. The issue here is crazy people are allowed to walk the street. YOU are politicizing it right now and don’t even realize it. This is not about health care. It’s about laws that do not protect the innocent. You and I, both of us, have NO idea what caused this MAN to shoot. He is NOT a boy. When most of us were his age were were already working and some were raising families. I am sick of this country calling adults “boys” and “Girls”. If you read any of the insane shit he wrote before they took it all down, it’s hard to know whether he is a lefy or a righty. His favorite book was the communist manifesto, for Chrissakes. I could post some pretty horrendous videos, like the one of that crazy left cliffer harrassing an old guy and telling him he’s old and intimidating him. these two extremes are simply despicable. And they are fueled by each other. Napolitano, whom I trust as far as I can throw her, tried to tie him into an organization that doesn’t even know him. I knew when that came from her office, it would need further research. Not that the group she mentioned sounds like a bunch of Normals either. Its just the same old shit. Two crazy sides on the extreme. It’s destroying America and somebody needs to shut them ALL up before they ruin America completely. I am so sick of holding my hose as sides “switch” power. The truth is, THEY BOTH ATTRACT CRAZIES and the rest of the country is left thinking WTF??????????? Nobody wants these people in charge from either side, but we are stuck voting for one or the other. Death by fire vs. death by drowning. Neither side made this nut crazy, but you can BET the kind of crap they pimp every day definitely influences crazy people like him.
Exactly PMM
“This is about the hijacked political parties using every tragedy and crisis to point the finger of blame at the other side.”
I think confinement of schizophrenics is part of the health care system problem because it costs money even for community supervision. That is a financial problem whether it is mental health institutions or prison. I don’t think it should be prison if they have not committed a crime.
The point is we have the left blaming Palin and the tea party for symbols on a map because they NEVER deal with the real issue. They continually avoid the issue and divert attention trying to gain points to win the next election. Playing to the most superficial petty BS instead of actually addressing the real political issues.
I agree with Uppity about Skits in the community. Totally. That is not what I am saying. I am saying all over the blogs and on TV, the left and Dem’s are not saying that — they are saying we need laws to regulate political speech and symbols. And they are going to try to pass a law to that effect.
Put a lid on it Green. You cross the line and then you are the victim. You know exactly what I am saying. If you can’t follow the purpose of this blog and it’s associated rules, then you are going to hear from me. It’s as simple as that. Nobody gets that pass. I am sick of repeating myself because I know you know exactly what I mean. Please stop ruining my fucking day. I am sick of this shit and I just wait for you to slam hillary again and then pretend it’s innocent.
The Obot left has forgottten they are no longer the super majority in Congress. The screwed it up when they were.I’m not sure they are even relevant any longer. Even Obama thumbs his nose at them. They will never succeed at this. I regard worrying about it as a complete waste of time.
Nice try.
I’m thinking of McCarthy’s idea to make laws to keep guns out of the hands of the deranged. Well that’s useless considering nobody can get the deranged to “volunteer” to be defined.
I just want to offer up this tidbit. I have had the unfortunate experience of coming face to face with suburban-dwelling occult “members” (I guess it’s some kind of club – I wouldn’t know…).
Well, the long and short of it is that I basically had to gather together a group of friends of mine to work on getting them the hell out of our neighborhood and our lives, period. It’s that freaky.
And yet … and yet, our omniscient guv’ment thinks that the bad guys are all hanging out at the airport. Lemme tell ya something, if the truth were really told, chances are the creepiest people on Earth are your next door neighbors….
Now in your last two posts Uppity you raise something we may disagree about although we are both on the same track. I agree our speech is important and the higher the better. But what I do with speech is make decisions — I do not believe Sara’s shooting or BObots race card playing is responsible for anyone’s actions but their own. I even think this crazy man’s actions are his own and his parents responsibility. ( I do have trouble calling a 20 year old a man)
I think we are not sheep and cannot blame leader’s speech for our behavior. I think “the devil made me do it” is not an excuse.
Where I draw the line is at threatening speech directed at a certain individual. Despite what the left is claiming about Palin and the tea party I don’t see it. I see a lot of demeaning speech at BO but that is not quite threatening. i don’t like sexual speech about him and I didn’t like it about Hillary either. And I have heard direct threats to Hillary during the last campaign but it came from Dem’s not Repubs.
I will only forbid sexual harassment or threats of violence toward an individual by legislation.
The other speech you refer to on both sides, I think is no excuse for people to say they were driven to murder or mayhem. I will use it to make political decisions. But blaming tactics for tragedy diverts from the candidates positions on issues.
Yes it shows their character and the character of those around them.
Still i know what worried us about BO was not what he said but his lack of a record — his lack of achievement. The sexism and race card playing were indicators also. That is why I do not want to shut those people up. I want to know what they are by their speech.
I am not a victim Uppity — Not at all – never. You are not an abuser. Never thought it for a moment . I did not slam Hillary. I am very confident of that. That you choose to perceive it as such is really unfortunate. If you ever change your mind, come and get me because I still love you. Bye Bye
Green, people are influenced by people every day. Even normal people. Crazy people enjoy taking it several steps further. It’s just a fact of life. When you admire someone you are influenced by that person. I think it is incumbent upon people with power, people who lead, to LEAD BY EXAMPLE because the example they set also SETS THE TONE.
Green he is NOT 20 years old. He is 22. At what damned point in life does someone become an adult these days? Are the people of his generation that dumbed down that we see 22 as a boy? If so, we are in deeper shit than I even thought.
Boardies! I have a question. At age 22, what were you doing? Were you home playing games? Were you sitting around waiting for some CEO to tap you to be lord of his company? What?
How many of you were actually contributing to your own lives and support at age 22? I’m just curious, because I’m pretty sure that there was a time when age 22 was not considered a child.
Please do not include your life story, I just want to know what you were doing at age 22.
I’m not coming to get you Green. I don’t coax people to come here. I don’t shoot for volume. I shoot for a comfort zone for my longtime loyal readers. They deserve that. I am not here for any other reason. If I had to be here for any other reason, I wouldn’t be here. You know the rules. With you it has been a pattern. I demand respect for the rules on this board. There aren’t many. Your history with hillary comments speak for themselves. She has NOTHING to do with this issue, in fact her comment had nothing to do with this issue, and yet, there she is being dragged into the fray by you. You are welcome back anytime, but you are not welcome to slam hillary, directly OR backhanded. I will continue to honor the original purpose of this forum and the reasons so many of the members stay. I will not detour from that.
Baruch, being a member of an occult, or whatever they are, is not illegal so long as they don’t endanger anybody else. I imagine they fall into the category of freedom of religion. Sounds like you lived near a bunch who went over the line. I’m not sure what turns people to things like, that but I imagine it’s the same zealotry that turns some Christians like the Westboro Bapisit harassers or Islamofascism into a societal problem. Fortunately I have never had to deal with what you describe. At least as far as I know they aren’t living next door. Plenty of privileged kids tend to get involved in that stuff, due to living in comfort without earning any of it, and having plenty of time on their hands. Thus, the focus on suburbia. Whenever there is news of this kind of thing around here, it’s always from a well-to-do community, it seems. Then their parents hire a high powered attorney to get them off so they can do worse next time. Usually, it’s some burned pentagram and bones of some innocent pet. Little psychos in the making, of course. Then they grow up and move next door to you.
Green:
I am one of those that – after much research on all the candidates – chose to support Hillary Clinton, proudly got involved in the process for the first time in my life.
– And, took a beating from a tactically planned, well-orchestrated and well-funded, crooked as hell Obama campaign, as badly as any verbally and emotionally abused woman living in a sick, sick environment.
In their own way, the Republican side stoked that whole thing as “deserving” – simply because of my support for “A Clinton” – ignoring every hard-earned qualification the PERSON had for the job.
Moreover, their SILENCE on the Sexism, Misogyny, Threats, Un-vetting and Corruption going on in the PRIMARIES – from fund raising to voter fraud to Voter Disenfranchisement and the DNC Delegate count obstruction of a fair and just political process
— their SILENCE was just as Corrupt as the Democratic Party’s action, IMO.
The Republican Party and its Sarah Palin ilk is about as as Selectively “Pro-American Values” as the Democratic Party and its Obama Ilk.
Both sides are promoting agendas that fuck over individual rights and freedoms and leave Average Americans fighting to salvage crumbs out of all of what generations before have sacrificed their lives and worked their asses off for.
Yet, all of it – by both sides – is being served up and handed over to Corporatists Wh*res and Political Dictators, who don’t give a rats ass about “People” – but their projections upon people as mold-able “followers” of the very rules and ideals that they, themselves, can break and bend to suit them and have masterfully positioned themselves to escape the consequences when they do.
Sarah Palin is simply another Barack Obama – a star made by fawning “star-struck mentalities” – not “born” to lead by committing their lives to working to construct “Women, Children, Human Rights – People Count” solutions – FIRST – like Hillary Clinton.
I understand why she did what she did – taking the SOS position.
Hillary Clinton’s “Reality Show” has always been and STILL IS about trying to make the world a better place for women, girls and PEOPLE.
For Sarah Palin to think so badly of Barack Obama and his ilk is laughable – considering the fact that she resembles him, in many ways.
Anyone who feels threatened by a Hillary Clinton or Gabrielle Gifford but can be “brainwashed” into admiring a Bush or Obama or Palin or Romney – scares the hell out of me as badly as a mentally ill person owning a 9mm Glock, quite frankly.
At 22 I was already married and on my own for 4 years and my daughter was one year old. My husband was 4 years older so he was 26. He married me when he was 21 though. We had a one bedroom apartment and worked our asses off since neither of us had finished college. When I was 18 I took a small loan from my mother to pay rent one month. We paid her back. Other than that she always said “you made your bed, now lie in it” type thing. My father bought me a carton of ciggs now and then and they both occasionally baby sat for my daughter or took us out for a special dinner.
My in-laws were the same. A few gifts a year, nothing special, a few meals out. We did it on our own. Also when my parents/grandparents died they had nothing left to leave me so I did it all on my own. I know people who inherit money and are set for life. After I buried my mom there was $25 left for our inheritance. I totally took care of them all though. At 22 I took care of parents, grandparents and my own husband and kid.
My daughter is now 33. She was equally independent and after college she worked and made herself a great life.
At 22 I was working my ass off and raising my child and keeping my apartment clean etc etc etc. All the things people of my generation did at that age.
From where I sit, the UnChristian Right and the Regressive Left are the same horrid people. I don’t care if they rip one another apart politically, because getting rid of the scourge that is both of them would be the best thing that ever happened to the United States of America. I want more Gabrielles and fewer Sarahs and Baracks. I want sane leaders who don’t mind everybody else’s business, steal from everyone and tell people how to live in one form or another. I am sick of being given NO choice and NO sanity in my government. I am sick of both of these fascist extremes and they deserve one another. BUt the rest of us DO NOT deserve EITHER of them.
Ah I see at 22, that MOST people who weren’t grown up as coddlled into adulthood, were off on their own. At 22, I had a degree and couldn’t find a job in my field. Yes, that’s right, there were no jobs. So I went to work in a stockroom because it is lazy and irresponsible to sit on your ass and let somebody else support you when you are a capable adult. The CEO wasn’t going to knock on my door. When the job came, I took it instead of lying around on the couch, leeching off my parents. In fact, my parents were pretty well to do, and they wouldn’t have STOOD for me doing that. But sorry, at 22, I was an ADULT. I also took graduate courses while I worked and I paid for it. How disgraceful of me. The truth is, everyone my age that I knew were expected to do the same thing, start fending for yourself and grow up. What I did was NOT unusual and it obviously wasn’t unusual for others on this board. I’m sorry, but I simply cannot believe that we are encouraging adults to act like kids who want to enjoy all the consolations of making their own decisions but none of the consequences, as in BAIL ME OUT OF MY STUPIDITY AGAIN.
How about the rest of you? What were you doing at 22?
By the time that 22 hit, I had graduated from college and was working three part time jobs. I didn’t have time to eat, barely slept and ran to and from one job to another like a lunatic. If I had a day off from teaching, I would take in a movie. That happened only when it was a matinee and the admission was $1. The rest of the time that I had was dedicated to washing my clothes and cleaning my apartment. Sounds exciting, huh?
At one point this crazy had 911 called on him in the middle of class. The police thought he was “special education.”
Ticking time bomb. No political bs, the kid is crazy. He didn’t have the assignment that was due and was told he could turn it in later but would receive 1/2 credit. He said that he was being denied his freedom of speech.
I had a serial murderer in my class. I was 23 and finally had a day job teaching. The guy was in 9th grade. He was 18 yrs old. He was in my remedial math class. He scared the crap out of me because he was nuts. Two weeks into class, (I let the creep sleep in class) the police came to take his ass away. He had murdered 3 people. The school refused to throw his ass out. He just needed some encouragement, ya’ know. Parents, what parents…he was 18 and his parents didn’t have anything to do with the
kidanimal.Why did he sleep in my class? Because he was out stabbing and killing in the evening. The guy hated homosexuals. No insanity crap for him. He got the chair.
I think Jerod’s parents knew a lot about how dysfunctional their kid was. They barricaded themselves inside the home when the FBI came knocking.
Of COURSE they knew, M. You don’t live with a psycho and not know it. They were probably scared shitless of the psycho besides. First comes the coverup and then comes the fright. I’ve seen this in the case I mentioned and I know you have too. If they tried to get him locked up he’d only get out and on his way out the door would tell them he was coming back to kill them. The law helps nobody but the crazy person in this case. These people ruin lives before they even get to kill a few innocent bystanders.
We need better laws on these things. We need laws that worry more about the rights of the endangered not the walking time bomb. THESE are the laws Congress should be working on instead of worrying abou ttheir own asses and not the rest of the country’s asses. They aren’t self serving or anything are they?
We need laws that make it possible for families to force people like this into the hospital for evaluation and they should be able to keep them as long as necessary. And if perchance they do get released, they should be FORCED to take their meds by showing up every single day for their dose and if they don’t, come get them again. I’m serious here. We have a country with far too many very psychologically sick and dangerous people in it. And if there are wierd incidents like this freak had and the familly doesn’t do it, the authorities should be allowed to do it.
At age 22, I was working my butt off in my 2nd year of veterinary school…
Got married too damn young (21), but of course I KNEW EVERYTHING at that age; I already had my life’s course charted 😉 !!!
Yes yes, Val, I know! You left home while you still knew everything!
🙂
McNorman I had two students in my teaching time that I knew would end up in jail. One of them was VERY scary. He gave you that LOOK. You know the one. teachers were afraid of him but I didn’t take his shit anyhow. lol. Je was one eerie creature let me tell you. You could see his anger under the surface, just looking to come out. Anyways, he didn’t kill anyone that I know of but he and the other kid did end up in prison. Their parents were coddlers too. It was sickening. Everybody saw these two boys as a crime waiting to happen……except their parents.
You know if you have to deal with them. It’s not something that you can forget. Luckily, that freak was put to death. He was into picking up males at the club downtown. Once he went home with them, he would rob them and finish it off by mutilating them. We lived in mortal fear in our neighborhood for four months. His big mistake? He did the final one in a hotel. There were finally witnesses. Everyone of the witnesses said the same thing, he had no soul in his eyes.
At 22 I was in graduate school, and was a research assistant in the department to earn my way. It was very demanding. I was very tired. lol
Finally made my comment on the tragedy and included your post:
http://syd4.blogspot.com/2011/01/msm-boiz-try-to-take-down-two-women.html
Now… back to lurking.
Oh, and thanks for keeping me sane!
Hey! My favorite stray! I’ve been wondering when you would stop by. Wish I could comment on your blog but blogspot lives in its own world and I can’t visit.
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