France: Veiled women protest the new law banning veils

Slap a cross around your neck or show too much leg in the Middle East — or even “better,” get raped by some animal– and see if you stay out of prison or even live long enough to protest. So much for “Freedom” and “Rights”.


145 Responses

  1. Well, at least France has not outlawed the right of these women to be buried in the ground up to their shoulders and stoned to death. Now that would be an affront on their freedom.

  2. Meeechelle should wear a full burka in solidarity with them and because it will also hide her scowl when she is in Paris with Carla Bruni.

    Leslie – the bearcam link you are looking for is likely to Lily at the bear’s den. They’ve left the den for the year but here is the youtube of the highlights – part one, other parts will come up as options when you watch it. also links to their main cam.

  3. Good one, Honora!

    3 cheers for Sarkozy!
    Regrettably, our Constitution won’t allow the passage of a similar law here, but we can dream….

  4. Actually although I hate the Burka and all it stands for I have mixed feelings on banning.
    If they are banned then would not we have to ban the hats Jewish wear and how the Amish dress ?
    They claim it is religion and religions have certain things that go with them. Touchy ground here we are treading on in this world. I know and feel as you do about the women being forced to do this but not all are. Here in the states I would like to see at least laws passed that make them remove the facial covering for drivers licenses, passports etc and while being checked by TSA to see that face matches ID.
    You would never catch me dead in that garb but again I am not of their faith.

  5. karen, I think one of Meechelle’s dandy designers should come up with something for her in black or black, don’t you?

  6. Utah, the thing is, you cannot see who is behind that veil and it is not only unsettling, but a security risk, not to mention a great way to make women invisible. How do you assimilate into a society dressed like that? Answer: You don’t and you don’t intend to.

  7. Gawd. they made a clay mold of his paw for me with his name on it. HIs box is quite beautiful. Cherry.

  8. Well, at least France has not outlawed the right of these women to be buried in the ground up to their shoulders and stoned to death. Now that would be an affront on their freedom.

    Yes, thank heavens France isn’t that cruel!

  9. utah I agree on the security issues- faces belong on ID- not trash bags. As for the burqa being religious garb- not sure one that. I think the Koran says both MEN and women should dress modestly- but I don’t think it says anything specific about sacks and covering faces. I also don’t think there is anything in there about seditious eyes.

  10. How lovely, UW. Kitty, RIP.

  11. The Obamas aren’t invited to the upcoming Royal Wedding. Even the Emir of Bahrain was invited!

  12. True on the veil Uppity- and who is to say it is not a man under all that? With as much explosive strapped on as he can get his grubby paws on?
    Flew a few years back and a nun was pulled out for “special” screening. She was young and quite gracious about it. The screeners had the grace to be ashamed of what they were doing and it showed. They got a female TSA agent to inspect the headress- and that waist to floor rosary.

  13. Vive la France!!

    “I have never been so proud of my country……”

  14. Just picked some Daffodils (or jonquils or narcissus- I never did know which was which) These ones have a ruffled edge and lovely fragrance.
    Next set of storms looks imminent.


    Lookit Uppity!! Just like old times! You’ll run right out and get one, huh??

  16. Yeah Hal, I used to use a tape drive with my 64 to dialup into a college mainframe. I used an old black and white TV for a monitor. You would put the phone audio end of the receiver onto the drive and dial in at a whopping 9600 baud rate, which basically meant you could eat your lunch and come back and maybe, just maybe you would be logged in. After that if you wanted to do repetitive things, you made up your own menu that executed the program for you. It was like that with the first PCs too. They are all in DOS, no windows. There was no word for windows but there were word processing softwares. I used one for a long time, and it had a draw gallery attached to it. All rather crude, but did the job. My first PC was an IBM XT, then an AT and then the PS series came out before windows hit the streets. You were doing great by then if you had a Dell that ran on 33 mhz. Think about that one. RAM was measured in K’s not megs or gigs. First time windows came out, it was like WHAT?.

  17. I put kitty on the stand near the food for now. He loved him his food. I felt kind of bad when I came in because I had his crate and blankey with me and the dog and his companion cat got a little excited thinking he was back. They sniffed and sniffed and nobody came out. Very sad.

  18. MOM, UTAH, remember when I did that post of an Afghan woman who voted having her photo taken for her voting card…in a burqa? It didn’t get anymore glaringly ludicrous than that. Let me go find that…

  19. Here they are standing in line to vote with their ID cards. Come on. Ridiculous. Their photos all look the same.

  20. Oh Yes Uppity- I remember that one.
    Just saw this- gas prices have risen 100% since the bozo took office

    I hope all the bots get blisters from walking.

  21. Mom, well like Barack said, “SEND PRICE SIGNALS”.

  22. Uppity- you should add “Coming soon to the Driver’s License Board near you if teh one is re-elected” to that photo

  23. Just to let you know, we have severe thunderstorm warning here. It’s extremely warm for April. In the 80s. So something is amiss. Wanted to let you know in case I lose the interwebs.

  24. Those storms have been rolling through here all day- and WINDY!
    Alas it is not 80. Though the little toads have been singing away the last few nights and it is getting warm enough that I will soon be eating asparagus. heh

  25. Now, I know that WE have a hard time distinguishing the women in their burkas, but I am sure that it is kinda like having 1000 names for snow in the Eskimo language. (Or the mother that can easily distinguish between her octuplets.) The burka loving countries have a keener appreciation for the nuance among women lovingly adorn in burkas, for them no two are alike (i.e., snowflakes)

  26. No PMM, you are right, the Koran says nothing about wearing a tent — only to dress modestly. The funny thing about this veil nonsense is that in Jesus’ time prostitutes veiled themselves so they could ply their trade in anonymity. Ironic, no?

  27. It’s global warming.
    Yours sincerely,
    Al Gore.

  28. The burka loving countries have a keener appreciation for the nuance among women lovingly adorn in burkas, for them no two are alike (i.e., snowflakes)

    Hahaha…our Honora’son a roll.

  29. That voter @4:41 looks just like the person I saw at Grant Park in Chicago the other day.


  30. NES obviously didn’t get the memo. It’s no longer Global Warming. It’s Climate Change. That way no matter what happens. Al makes money.

  31. Understand all about security risk etc but just saying they can and will stand on a religious thing here in the states and if and when we follow France with banning it look out cuz coming to your neighborhood soon……….
    I am sorry folks but I can not get into ban this ban that crapola. Once we head that way we head to Sickle and Hammer thing seriously.
    They can and do need to make it mandatory here to unveil for picture ID and passports and where ever you need to prove you are who you are or else no ID and no getting in airports bus stations, government buildings etc. Anywhere I have to show an ID and prove I am who I am is fair game for all. I am sure they had to remove the veil to be photographed when they got arrested did they not ?
    As for a security risk I think we take it a bit far. Let’s see what was that guy wearing that shot Gabrielle Giffords ? Timothy McVey I don’t think wore a Burka. I am just saying a nut and murderer are just that. Clothing has nothing to do with it. I seem to remember a murderer wearing a Nixon mask once and how many bank robbers and mini market robbers have their faces covered ? Sorry gang can not get behind the mass hysteria to ban some form of clothing. It can lead to so so much more. Remember where the anti smoking league got us.
    I feel they have their right to their beliefs as far as dress goes. They have their nut bags yes but so do we have more then our fair share.

  32. Uppity that is so nice you had you little guy cremated and he is home. Hard on you I know but yet somehow it tends to bring comfort as well.

  33. Glad it is warm in your neck of the woods. Not the case here. The snow is melting though lol

  34. Utah, I’m not so sure they had to take that veil off when they got arrested, to be honest. The thing is McVey and that other psycho who shot Giffords are standalone freaks. They aren’t coming from a political system and culture that has declareed war on the west and tend to strap bombs on women and children without blinking an eye. They might call this a religion but it’s a political agenda.

    I do not see Middle eastern Islam as a religion in the same way I saw Islam in the Muslims I have known long before Jihad was declared upon us. I see it instead as an excuse for a barbaric, backwards, violent culture that revolves primarily and is totally pre-occupied with hatred of women–and they want to bring it to the west and turn us into the same shitholes.

    Only ME Islam has Honor Killing. Only Islam stones women to death. Only Islam cuts off hands, feet, and gouges out eyes of petty thieves. Only Islam legally allows depraved male sex perverts to kidnap little girls. Only Islam allows depraved male sex perverts to force little girls to “marry” them. Only Islam allows depraved male sex perverts to legally rape little girls. Only Islam hangs men with homosexual orientation. Only Islam teaches that women are subhuman third-rate creatures. Only Islam legally murders apostates who no longer wish to participate in Islamic Criminal Activity. Only Islam teaches that their religion is a religion of peace while all along it commits legal atrocity after legal atrocity. Only Islam has Suicide Bombers. Only Islam murders girls who seek an education. Only Islam lashes men and women until their backs are drenched with blood. Only Islam uses sex slaves and slaves for other purposes. Only Islam allows its members to lie if it advances the evils of Islam. Only Islam allows Muslims of different crime syndicates to hunt down and murder other Muslims.

    Only Islamists practice hypocrisy to a very high degree. Christians come in second when it comes to hypocrisy, and that takes a lot of hard work to best them.

    These so-called Muslims will cringe when they see a mannequin without clothes, but will rape a little girl or woman at the drop of hat.

  35. utah, I have the ashes of all my pets who moved on. When I go they go with me. When my mother’s cat died, I dug a hole behind her grave and put his ashes with her. That’s the deal. Me, I’m getting cremated, so they’ve got the head start. There is some closure in ashes I think.

  36. I know all that and understand it but again banning a type of clothing is going to far and will lead to more. No argument will get me to agree I am never in favor of banning . Fear is a nasty thing. Fear can cause all kinds of bad things done to feel we are safe. I do not fear someone in this garb . I do not allow fear to control my thinking. I have known women that wore this getup by choice and they had wonderful husbands as well. Again this is not all Muslims and not even all ME dwellers. Radicals subscribe to this. Radicals are everywhere. Granted they are growing in numbers but what better way to assure that you piss off the radicals and get a bomb up your ass ? I will wait and see how long before France is counting it’s dead. This is a perfect way to stir them up. That said again I can not support banning the Burka just support that they unveil when they are where I am having to show ID. As far as seeing them in the market it bothers me not. Makes me wonder why they want to dress that way but again their choice as it is mine to wear Jeans and Tee shirts.
    I warn you like I did others on the smoking ban you will live to regret this.

  37. Utah, a law similar to France’s wouldn’t withstand constitutional scrutiny here, so it’s really a moot point.

  38. I stand corrected. Al’s a clever snake oil salesman.

  39. Hey Upps, you’re channeling that Ann chick!
    Seriously tho’, I couldn’t agree with you more.
    On the banning the burkha point, I’m emotionally for it, but don’t see a way around the first amendment. Would be interested to hear from anyone who does.

  40. NES Thank Heaven it will. I do worry though because many things these days that are unconstitutional are here. Sadly this great nation is changing and becoming another subject of Europe. Never thought freedom meant so little to folks but it does. Seems to me these days are filled with change and I mean change until we all conform to others way of thinking.
    You know once our women were covered from head to foot too and had to even try to hide the fact they were pregnant. I don’t remember a ban on clothes from the 1800’s and I do remember folks getting pissy many times when women decided to bare more. Now we wear what we like and it took rebels to do it. Banning the Burka is a moot point to me because that will not change these radicals way of thinking. There is only one way to do that and it is to get in and finish these wars and place level headed non religious fanatic leaders. Do not see that coming anytime too soon but you never know. Things are going goofy over there now so you never know. I have my doubts because we sure dropped the ball when it came to Iran.

  41. Yeah NES, but I don’t have an adam’s apple. To be honest, a chunk of that got taken from a commenter somewhere, I can’t remember where, if I did I still wouldn’t know who it was, since it was anonymous. I just thought it summed things up nicely once I tweated it some.

    As for the first amendment, I appreciate it as much as anyone, but when I have to watch old ladies get their cavities examined by TSA while burqas walk right by or are allowed to “examine themselves,” then I think somebody ELSE’s constitutional rights are being invaded for the placation of someone. The truth is, if little green men are robbing bands, you look for little green men as suspects, not old ladies in wheel chairs. Just saying.

  42. When did MEasterners become a race, yelling RACIST all the time? I alway saw them as white people just like some dago relatives of mine. What a crock. Only recently they have showed up on government questionaires as a race. My American lebonese and syrian friends I’ve known all my life are shocked to know they are a whole new race. Of course, most of them are Christians too.

  43. The wonderful horse we lost a few years back is buried here on the farm. Mom had Dad cremated- took me years to forgive her for that (he came from a Jewish background- nuff said)
    Heard a while ago that there is a way to be buried on your own land here in PA- and there are funeral homes close by licensed to do- get this- “green” preparation of remains.
    I think it would be nice to be buried without all the chemicals and know that i was helping something grow.

  44. Well if the ME gets to be a “race” can we Scots/Irish be a race as well? Can I put mixed race or Gaelic race or Celtic or something on the next census?

  45. ROF PMM most of us here would have to mark down Heinz 57 or mutt lmao. I am German Swede but my kids have whole bunch from their mutt dad lmao. Ah this race thing blows goats big time . There are two races of people, Human beings and animals period.

  46. Utah- “Human beings and animals period.”

    What about aliens like the squatter at 1600? He sure does not seem human- and I love animals too much to put him in that category. Unless he is a spider or a possum?

  47. Uppity that is what I am saying about fairness. Banning a form of clothing is not the answer as far as I am concerned what is the answer , yes imagine that it would happen , but follow the law. If I have to be searched so do they and they need to be fondled every bit as much as my 83 year old mother did. If they claim religion on this one then fine don’t drive or fly or frequent places that warrant you being searched or demand an ID and to see your face simple as that. I sure as heck can not say it is against my religion to be touched at an airport and still fly or search myself so they are no different then I.

  48. ok so animals isn’t a good second race how about this ……….

    There are human beings and slugs simple as that. Two races.

  49. Utah- rofl! Slugs works!
    Just a reminder- John Smart is interviewing this guy tonight-

  50. hmmm my turn to have you tube issues?

  51. hmm- anybody got any hints on what is going on there? I can’t get the you tube vids to embed?

  52. I’ve seen a vid of Crowell. He’s ok, but just ok. Am I missing something about what makes this guy noteworthy? Is it just that he’s an AA who criticizes Obama?

  53. NES- I listened to one of the vids John had up and am curious to hear the interview.
    Right now I am annoyed with you tube- lol

  54. Oh quick pour beer on everything.

  55. I did a quick trace of his email address and found he is an economics teacher whose strong support of Hillary dates back a few years. That’s pretty much all I could find but his posts in a few places were very perceptive, I thought.

  56. This should probably go in the news thread- but here it is
    Reports: Japan to raise alert level of nuke crisis
    TOKYO – News reports say Japan has decided to raise the severity level of the crisis at its tsunami-stricken nuclear power plant to 7 — the highest level and equal to the 1986 disaster at Chernobyl in the former Soviet Union.

  57. Utah, the thing is, you “can’t” “Fondle” them or “Search” them or even “Touch” them. Must less look under that veil and find out if Achmed is under there with a bomb strapped to his ass. And imagine the raw bullshit of allowing them to “search themselves”. TOuch yourself here, do you feel anything we should be worried about? No. Oh okay.

  58. So, Utah, is it okay for mormons to have as many wives as they want too? I mean that’s religious to some of their sects. Do you see that these religions specifically, and religion in general, tends to trivialize and degrade women? And that perhaps this is actually at ODDs with our constitution?

    When a woman says she “Chooses” to wear a burqa, knowing that if she doesn’t “choose” it she will probably die, is that okay?

  59. No question, they have to be searched. In fact, all burkha-clad women should be automatically searched or x-rayed at airports and the like security locations. Ditto anyone who shows up in a Darth Vader outfit.

  60. Yes, perceptive but not particularly novel. I think it’s that he’s AA and doesn’t support BO. That’s my un-PC 2 cents.

  61. Dems give away rights of Washington DC govt in budget bill. Mayor and city officials demonstrated against concessions on abortion funding and school vouchers in Wash DC demanded by the repubs in the federal budget negotiations and get arrested for civil disobedience.

  62. It is fine with me if Mormons have more then one wife . I see it as the man has to be nuts but it is his life to get bitched at by more then one lol. As long as the wives are of age and not forced into a marriage. However it is against the law so these that do it are violating the law therefore they are in the wrong. The true Mormon church does not sanction plural marriages anymore so again we are talking radicals that do this.

    Yes religion does put women as low as dirt and that is why I find it so difficult to understand how any woman can belong to a religion period. I was forced into Catholicism and by that I mean I was a week old and baptized and then had to go to mass weekly and suffer through the no meat on Friday etc. I had to wear a head pinching hat to church and a prickly dress while my brothers were comfortable. I knew I did not care for it at the age of seven because even then I saw how different women were treated as in no way will they enter the alter unless they are there to clean it but boys could. I had no choice but to go along with this woman hating religion until I was old enough to leave home. I never would enter a church again.
    I know what you are saying that many women do not have the choice but is banning a Burka going to change that ? I see it quite differently really. I see these whack nuts taking it out on their wives and accusing them of leaving the house without it and having yet another reason to beat hell out of them. There is no one good solution to dealing with radicals.
    I just personally think forcing someone to do as we think they ought to do is wrong and is just as wrong as them thinking we all need to accept Islam.

  63. I meant if it were legal for Mormons to have more then one wife I am fine with it.

  64. From BCL’s link
    “The fact that Congress will likely re-impose the ban on abortion funding wasn’t a shock to Tiffany Reed, the president of D.C. Abortion Fund, a non-profit organization that makes grants to poor women to pay for abortions, which can cost $300 to $500 or more. Reed said her group, which helped pay for more than 300 abortions a year, had expected the ban to be re-imposed, but she was angry Congress had stepped in again to local affairs just as the lifting of the ban was beginning to take effect.

    “It gives me a lot of rage quite frankly,” she said. “I’m really disappointed in our pro-choice president that he allowed this to happen.””

    What pro-choice president is she talking about? IS SHE STILL blind?

  65. A lovely pic of Hillary:

  66. {sigh} LOVE Hillary in Sapphire Blue!

  67. Well maybe next they will just put their slave women on leashes and say it’s Allah’s will. That will be okay to right. I mean if it’s declared part of their religion. Might as well. They already have them in cloth cages.

  68. Yup Mom. She’s blind. And not very bright. Unless maybe she was just being sarcastic. The man is anti woman, period.

  69. Yep, yep.
    Note that this lovely pic is in a Brit publication; god forbid that the US press should ever print a representative pic of her.

  70. Utah, I don’t believe the face veils are totally banned – just in public. They can still wear them at home. We ban (or used to!) certain types of clothing from being worn at school. We require helmets to be worn when riding motorcycles, but not otherwise. Many professions for men don’t allow facial hair – of course, it’s not a state or national law, but they won’t get a job with that hair, particularly if it could catch on fire in their job (scientists with their faces in their projects, maybe). Men in hospitals who have to wear airtight masks can’t have facial hair, because the mask won’t seal. And those full-face veil things – I can’t imagine they have any peripheral vision – heck, I don’t want them driving into me!

    Anyway, my point is that I think it’s unusual for something to be totally banned – the banning seems more narrow in scope, and related to safety of self and others. Even smoking isn’t totally banned – it can still be done in most places outside, and inside one’s own home and car (as long as little kids aren’t there).

    I’m just familiar with readings which state that the burqa and the burqa DELUXE are actually not required by religion, by by tribal custom. And I’m pretty sure that tribal custom came about to oppress women, and to help the poor men keep their virility to themselves – a better idea might be to keep men’s hands cuffed 24/7, make it a NEW tribal custom lol

    I realize you’re speaking on philosophical basis. I just think it’s not a total ban, and that those beekeeper outfits can be dangerous in many ways to the women and to everyone around them, especially if it’s really a man inside!

    And I’m just sick and tired of our having to bend over backwards for countries that haven’t evolved since Jesus said, “hey, man, it’s so hot out in this desert, don’t wear all those clothes, you’ll pass out!” lol

    And anyway – “France, love it or leave it (and take your burqa with you!)” ROFL

  71. Wait a minute! How come when women want equality, they’re accused of wanting SPECIAL RIGHTS! And when gays want equality, they’re accused of wanting SPECIAL RIGHTS!

    These women want to wear beekeeper outfits, oh c’mon, how WEIRD is that? It’s the OPPOSITE of equality! I wanna hear that shouts of how they’re demanding SPECIAL RIGHTS!

    Well, you can’t get special rights, because you can’t be special – how could you be special when you all look like identical rumpled bags??? No individuality, therefore no specialness!

    Ok, is it obvious I don’t have any sympathy for this totally outlandish “custom”?????


  72. Understood but to each their own. I am just sick and tired of more and more regulations and bans. I think folks ought to spend more time learning to live with each other in peaceful harmony rather then seeing what they can ban or change. We are all different and what you like might not work for me and vice versa. If they want to wear those uncomfortable things so be it.
    How many killings have you really read about that the man was wearing one ?
    Most of these fools want to be seen so they can go out a martyr . Eh so be it but I do not want to live in France and I do not want the states following Europe we are screwed up enough as it is.
    Anyway great discussion but I will still stand my ground that banning sucks and is not the answer.
    As for the driving I think I have less to worry about with them wearing that thing then the teeny boppers texting and drinkers drinking and asshats thinking they are playing a real life video game. Life is a risk no matter. I am not going to sweat seeing a woman in a Burka and believe I might be looking at a bomber I would fear a trip to the mini market more and running into an ass wearing a ski mask.

  73. Goodness gracious a lot of people are missing the point — a burqa isn’t “clothing.” It IS a form of enslavement and the poor women who claim they want to wear it are brainwashed and/or in fear of their lives. It was brave of Sarkozy to do this and right — American politicians have no courage, no hearts, and no brains — and to direct the real punishment to the men enslaving those women.

  74. Freedom and rights. It will just be a matter of time before it becomes addictive, and out go willingly the veils and outfits.

  75. Lorac,

    you all look like identical rumpled bags???

    Wow. That is harsh. The burka fashionistas may have a thing to say about that now.

  76. If they have something to say about it, towne, I won’t be able to understand their muffled words lol

  77. lorac! ROFL!

  78. BTW, I agree with you lorac. There are a lot of things we do to live in a civil society. Most for the sake of public safety. Can laws sometimes go overboard? Yes, of course, but there are many good ones that do indeed protect us all.

  79. What about Orthodox Jewish women, luv2cruz? Isn’t their cover-up clothing also a sign of enslavement that the state should ban? I think it’s definitely a sign of their ‘enslavement’ to the norms of an ultra-orthodox patriarchical set of beliefs. But, I’m less eager to have our gov’t step in and ban it because, in so doing, we head down a slippery slope. At the end of the day, I’m just very uncomfortable with gov’t regulating women’s clothing; if they can do it to ‘free’ us, they can do it to enslave us too (shades of the Handmaid’s Tale). The burkha is disgusting to me, but there has to be another way of discouraging the wearing of it.
    But, hey, I’m still totally on-board with fighting to keep the goatf*ckers at bay. Let’s start with immigration controls. Make no mistake: the more uncomfortable it gets for the g’fers in Europe, the more they’ll look here for immigration, comforted by the protection our First Amendment will afford them.

  80. Yah lorac! Hilarious. Keep on rolling.

  81. imust – I remember learning in school that we have to have some rules (civil society) in order to have the most freedom and safety. It was a totally mind opening concept to me – because when you’re young, your first thought is that freedom = NO rules. But, of course, you’re safer on the roads when cell phones are banned and streets have stoplights, etc. Of course, it’s a balancing act, TOO many rules = NO freedom. But in general, we’re only (theoretically) safe from murder when people’s freedom to kill others is restricted.

    I understand what utah’s saying, and I agree in principle. But from what I can tell, they’re not saying this garment can never be worn. It just can’t be worn in public – and it makes sense to me. They’re talking about the garment that totally covers a woman.

    And after all, it IS against the culture of the place they moved to. They can always move back home to the cave if they feel that strongly about it. We put so much emphasis on OTHER culture’s rights and their need to keep maintain the integrity of their culture, but then we let our own cultures be warped by the other culture coming into our cultures. If they’re in Rome, they should expect to do as the Romans do, or else go back to Greece. Our culture has just as much of a right to maintain its integrity in its OWN COUNTRY. You want your own laws, you want religion in government, you want to wear a potato sack? Do it where it’s accepted and stop trying to take apart OUR culture.

    (I’m channeling some UPPITY spirit tonight lol)

  82. NES, who is ‘luv2cruz’?

    I’m not familiar with the Jewish clothing here. We don’t have many Jewish people here. I live in Mexico. lol But if it covers their face, I’d feel the same way.

    The Muslim women can still be covered head to toe, EXCEPT for their face, with the new French rules, I believe.

    And they certainly can’t assimilate in the least with their face covered. If they’re not going to assimilate, why even leave their original goat country? I mean, seriously! I worry about too much balkanization. We’ll end up with wars here on our soil eventually, I believe, between peoples who never assimilated.

  83. Under the new French law, anyone forcing a woman to veil herself can be fined appx. 40K. Now that’s an effective and revenue-generating way to clamp down on burkha-wearing –go after the pigs that bag their women.

  84. Yes, I liked that the penalty is far worse for the men.

    The only thing I worry about it that the men may use it as an excuse to keep the women in the house. But in France, I imagine they’re used to the women being their maids, getting their groceries, etc. I think the chances are that they’ll settle down and accept the ban, let women continue out in public – for the men’s own benefit.

  85. Lorac, don’t know who luv2cruz is – I was simply responding to a comment that he/she made upthread.

    You make a good point and I’m totally simpatico with it. I, too, fear the consequences of non-assimilation. I greatly fear that our constitution may leave us vulnerable to the threat. Could we ban the face-covering in public, as France did? I doubt we can get past the First Amendment on that point, which I greatly regret. This is the most infuriating thing — the g’fers come here and then use our freedoms to take us over. A free society needs more defenses than it has.

  86. Inshallah, lorac.

  87. In shallow…. waters…? lol

    NOW what language are you speaking, oh woman of tongues? lol

  88. Hah! That be ” God Willing”‘ in goat talk.

  89. goat talk ROFL

    No, no, must be “allah willing”

    But what would an agnostic know about that, anyway. It all seems rather goofy to someone like me lol

  90. NES, it was nice to briefly see you! Now I have to cut up my food for lunch tomorrow, ride my indoor bike, take a shower, and get to bed!

  91. Goodness gracious a lot of people are missing the point — a burqa isn’t “clothing.” It IS a form of enslavement and the poor women who claim they want to wear it are brainwashed and/or in fear of their lives. It was brave of Sarkozy to do this and right — American politicians have no courage, no hearts, and no brains

    We have a winner!!

  92. NES, luv2 was in moderation, being a new commenter. That’s why you could see her and lorac couldn’t. But I’m with her on this one. THis is so obvious it’s hardly worth arguing over. This is an abuse of the first amendment to enslave women in hefty trash bags. As France described it, they are cloth coffins.

    These entrapments, and that is what they are, designed to make women disappear as humans, aren’t even mentioned in their own special little book of religion. There are women who have broken away and spoken out. Mostly, their days are numbered. Which is another problem. I had no idea the first amendment would protect the “right” to kill people who leave a religion and criticize it.

  93. re: Orthodox Jewish woman garb. They look silly but I can see their faces. I remember when nuns had garb. But all catholic women weren’t told to wear it. Try not wearing your burqa in that godforsaken afghanistan. Nuns chose to be nuns as a vocation and took the humlity garb with it. I remember when women were required to cover their heads in catholic churches. More silly manmade subjugating rules. But I could see their faces. Fortunately both of these manmade “rules” were ditched. It took about as long as it took the church to recognize that the eath wasn’t flat any longer. But Cripes, even the pope looks good next to these mullahs. Head coverings don’t make you wonder what’s coming at you, nor do they make it impossible to see their eyes. Annoying but not unsettling. I see Muslim women when it’s 90 degrees out, wearing all that heavy garb and I think the same thing I thought with nuns in full habit. It can’t possibly be healthy and it’s a form of suffering reserved for women, while the guys walk around without underwear in under their dresses, so they can be good and cool.

    Orthodox jewish woman.
    Hard to see the similarity to a burqa, yes?

  94. imust, you know, some of our public safety laws are very revealing as to the stupidity of Americans. For example, don’t text and drive. Hands free cell phones. I mean, only the most stupid person would not be aware that these things are dangerous. And some One Size Fits All laws are dangerous to people. For example, airbags are great. If you are taller than 5 feet 2. Otherwise that bag is going to cause your death. But if you are a short person, the law prohibits you from getting a waiver. In other words, screw you, short people. the CFLs that will be The Law starting next year….they can cause migraines, and probably seizures. Well screw you people who have that problem. Not to mention the toxic waste laws associated with breakage. Get out of your house. Use EPA hazardous waste instructions. The law is the law. So basically, in some kind of convoluted effort to save one person, they kill two.

  95. Uppity here you are right. I understand laws but come on really. I think we make laws that ought to not be seriously ie the airbag thing. So people died in crashes it is a fact but I have to have my seat as close to the thing as it can get in order to drive I am short and have very short arms and legs so I have to take my chances. Not to mention the fear of it smashing my glasses into my face.
    I am so darn sick of folks wanting laws to protect me from me. I want to live in a free society that allows me to live as I want so long as I am not out there destroying your life. We need laws to be true but our laws are taking away freedom of choice on what we eat , wear, and use in our own homes. This is the reason I can not get into a ban on this damn gunny sack. I do understand what it is about and hate that men feel superior to a woman and want to enslave her but I think education is far better and laws that demand the removal of the mask for ID. Airports themselves could ban the darn thing as could business that feel it is a hazard or unsafe. I never like government taking rights from citizens. To me it is not a threat to have a woman wearing it walking down my street but if I were to fly it could be a threat therefore airports could or airlines could ban it. I have no problem at all with an individual establishment banning something from their place but I do have an issue with a law banning an individual freedom and that is what wearing that crap drag is in all honesty. I understand many are forced to wear it but again you are treading on touchy ground here.

  96. Enjoying the discussion. I gained valuable Insight into the burka issue and treatment of women in Muslim culture in general by reading the book “Bookseller of Kabul” by Asne Seierstad, a Norwegian journalist who writes about her experiences living with a Afghan family. In order to survive, women are forced to conform with cultural norms. Sadly, because women are brought up as very second-class citizens, they cannot even imagine options outside the norms.

  97. Well, UW, of course the first amendment (FA) doesn’t protect apostasy.

    As for the garb, we know it’s enslavement, but the woman who challenges any anti-burkha-in-the-streets law here will say it’s a violation of her right to ‘express’ herself and to practise her religion. Under the FA, it wouldn’t be sufficient to argue that she’s enslaving herself or that she’s misreading the Koran. Maybe I’m wrong on this — I hope I am since I think the burkha is despicable –but I suspect I’m not. (Again, we’re only talking about the veiling of the face in the streets, which is all the French law does, not at security checkpoints.)

  98. Thanks Magdal. Phyllis Chesler, one notable Second Wave Feminist who achieved many things to that we women might watch it all slip away, married a Middle Easterner and lived in Afghanistan. She has provided first hand information on just how awful it is to live in that godforsaken land. She of course, had to get help to escape.

  99. Aussie, that’s my point. Laws are laws even if they kill you. One size fits all and that’s bullshit. take seat belts. They are great unless you land in water. Then you are dead if you can’t get to that belt.

    As for Burqas, they are not religious they are poltical and cultural, bringing more of an 8th century shithole to the west. They are just an In You Face sign of unwillingness to assimilate into other societies like you or I would have to do if we moved to their rathole. That’s why we don’t move there. The goal is to colonize not assimilate. Merckel and others have already declared mulitculturalism with these people a disaster. They do not believe in mulitculturalism. They believe in domination.

  100. Presumably, a cop could pull over a woman driving with her face veiled, just as he/she could pull over one driving with a paper bag over his/her face. The FA doesn’t protect endangering the lives of others. Now, all we have to do is convince a court that veiled women in the street pose a physical threat to our lives and limbs.

  101. Understand but you see that is what I am trying to get at. Laws that are designed to enslave us. So say I like red blouses best and think green ones are an eyesore should I demand we all wear red ones ? This is happening here in our country and world wide.
    The damn Burka is horrible I admit that but is banning wearing it in public going to actually help those women to freedom from the rat bastards that enslave them ? I think not. I think it opens the door for further bans. Hmm let’s see me thinks the other religious will push to ban thongs and although I find those to be an eyesore too what is to stop them from a win ? Then moving right along we ban another and another.
    I have no solutions to what to do with these women hating rat bastards anymore then I have answers for what to do with the rapists, woman beaters and child molesters here. It can only start at home and with the training and education of your kids. Sadly to this day men and women both teach and treat their male and female children differently. I was raised very different from my brothers and not allowed to attend many things they could up to and including college. I was not allowed to drive I left home and did everything I was not allowed to do at home causing a huge rift between me and my folks but so be it. I never got into any trouble like their two treasured sons did either. I vowed to raise my two differently. My son sees a woman as a partner and equal. I helped end the cycle in my own family and others need to do the same.

  102. The goal is to colonize not assimilate.

    True that. And we’re sitting ducks.

  103. Wow! Had no idea Chesler lived in Afghanistan. Whatever possessed her to do that? Love ain’t enuf for that ordeal.

  104. Utah, did you grow up in a fundamentalist mormon family?

  105. No not at all. I am not Mormon lol just because I live in Utah. I was raised Catholic. My father thought women had their place in life and that was to grow up to cook , clean and please your man. He really did not like me very much. My mother was meek and allowed that thinking to go on because she believed it. To her dying day she maintained all she ever wanted was to be taken care of by a man. Ok then if that is what you want go for it. I raised my daughter to be what ever her heart told her to be. If she wanted to be a logger I was good with it. I raised my son to accept that women are just as capable as any guy and to accept they are more then baby makers. Women love my son. I got told by his ex girlfriend once she really blew it by dumping him because no man has treated her as well since.

    Now on this Burka thing. As an abused woman in my younger years and watching my daughter go through it as well and darn near losing her to the SOB who thought she was his property asnd if he could not have her no one could I will add that some how some way these women hating monsters are going to turn this ban on them. It will be their fault. Pitty them because they will pay for this I believe that in my heart.

  106. O/T — Obama talking to his 2012 voters.

    The guy is so pathetic, politicking with kiddies.

  107. I had guessed fundi-Mormom only because of the orthodox views re women you described. Hadn’t realized US Catholics were still that ‘traditional.’

  108. Ok, I’m no longer enjoying Trump’s political engagement. He just declared that he would run as an independent if he didn’t get the nomination. Dividing the GOP vote by an independent bid is a surefire way to get BO re-elected.

  109. NES I feared Trump would pull a Ross Perot. This will put the ” ONE” back in power. Ugh I mean Romney, Obama and Trump pulls in enough to give the election to O

  110. Also my folks were old when I was hatched. Pop was already 41 and I am well into my fifties so it was not all that unusual that he thought as he did. I only had one thing to say later on and that was sorry I messed your plans up and was born a female.

  111. NES, I don’t believe that Trump will run as an independent. I read WSJ. I heard he had a meeting with Huck. Huck said, “never say never” to questions asked about running. BTW, have you seen this one?

  112. LOL on the old Catholic stuff utah- I remember the hats- and how the nuns would pin a kleenex on your head if you showed up without a hat.

    As for banning clothing- imho, it is not about banning the sacks- it’s about the face covering. Uppity posted the photos of the women going for their ID’s with full face covering. What the hell is the point of having an ID then?

    And I lean towards the idea that if you come here- you come to be an American. You want to keep the stories of your heritage alive certainly. Nana and Grampa frequently told stories of the old country- all the while making sure we all knew they considered it a blessing beyond measure that they came here. And learned our language and customs. Never did they gloss over the abject poverty and trials of the old country. They came here to BE Americans. Not to turn America into what they had fled.

  113. mcn- {groan} that anybody but Mitt thing leaves me with a creepy feeling. If the choice is Mitt or Barky- well then there really is no choice at all imo.
    PMM will be writing herself in if those are the choices.

  114. PMM, I know. I just had to see the link for myself. It’s almost got a nauseated scent to it. lol

  115. MOM I so agree with come here and be an American or stay where you are. Again as I said above I disagree with banning the thing but agree with making them unveil to prove who they are or when taking a photo ID pic. Again allow the business or airlines and airport to ban the dress. That leaves it in the hands of the citizen or establishment to ban what goes on in their place and takes the government out of it.

  116. I clicked through to the Boston Herald article- well worth the read.

    “Taxpayers now spend $2.5 billion more on our state’s health care budget. The direct cost of Romneycare has gone from less than $100 million a year to at least $400 million — and even that number is suspect. But we do know we’ve spent more than $35 million in a single year on health services for illegal immigrants, and tens of millions more on illegal, unallowable or outright bogus claims.”

  117. Anywhere I have to show who I am and prove it they should too simple as that. And to the fact they can wear them in the home not on the street is silly I think the whole purpose is to cover up in public is it not ? Agasin it is ok in their country but here short of a full on ban they should have to unwrap to prove they are who they are and they should have to follow security measures at airports like anyone else. If the choose not to then they should be escorted from the premises as anyone one else would be .

  118. I understand why you say what you do utahwoman, but I have a scenario that has played out many times in my life. I’m a bit jaded about the covering.
    I have never replaced a car because I want to, I have always been hit. Last one was a young female woman from another country. If she had the full faced burqa on, how would I be able to verify that she was the one driving? She may have had an ID with her face on it, but would she reveal herself at the accident site?
    I had enough trouble with the one that hit me. Uninsured driver from Mexico. I got stuck with that tab. I also see this garb as a possible way to access areas that are strictly female such as public restrooms. I would not want to be assaulted by the guy that wore the burqa.

  119. Mcnorman, I was just taking Trump at his word. Hope he’s just b.s.-ing, but his ego is huge and he may not be able to resist.

    I don’t like the anyone-but-mittens campaign because I think, given the current crop of GOP candidates, mittens may be the only one who can beat Barky. Christie and Rubio could definitely swing it, but neither seems inclined to run. It’s my primary focus for ’12: beating BO. He needs to answer for Hillary. (I can be very Eyetalian about these things.)

  120. NES, I think we need to fasten our seatbelts and hold our noses. It’s going to be nuts.

  121. True mcn. It’ll all be worthwhile tho’ if BO is retired to the golf course — formally retired.

  122. I would love nothing more than to send BHO off to the golf course forever. His happiness would be my many folk’s joy.

  123. So much for the post-racial election…Jesse still blaming racism:

  124. It’s getting old NES. They are going to have to come up with something else.

  125. Proof positive that people are truly sheeple — no excuse for not seeing that BO is now taking credit for budget cuts he vociferously opposed and did nothing to formulate. Why should he ever work if the dumb electorate is going to let him goof off and then jump in at the last minute and just claim credit for others’ work.

    A CNN survey conducted over the weekend suggests that Obama’s approach convinced the public: 54 percent of Americans approved of how the president handled the budget negotiations, while 45 percent did not. Meanwhile, 44 percent of Americans approved of how congressional Republicans performed, while 54 percent disapproved. For congressional Democrats, the numbers were exactly the same as for Republicans.

  126. He takes credit for anything and blame for nothing. He even takes credit for bad things, pretending they are good things. He is truly a putrid little man.

  127. Jesse Jackson needs to go back and listen to MLK instead of pontificating.
    Of which Jackson and the fraud have none.

  128. If the sheeple let him get away with it, they deserve him, UW. At this rate, we’ll be suffering him till ’16!

  129. NeS and Utah are right on. If Trump runs indy, Obama wins. Period. Terrible idea.

  130. Whatever possessed her to do that?

    Youth and stupidity go hand and hand.

  131. Don’t hold your breath on that, mcnorman. Victimology has long roots in Judeo-Christian guilt.

  132. I was nevah that stupid.

  133. Jesse Jackson. What. Evah.

  134. Oh dear lord I am cringing here. I had some hopes that there would be someone running I could tolerate to some extent and get my wish of see Barry dumped on his ass. Not looking real good. Smitty Mitty is never going to get my vote and Barry will see folks in Hell being served ice cubes before I pulled the lever by his name. Ack what to do.

  135. Why not Mitty, Utah? Is it RomneyCare? If so, what if he pledged to repeal ObamaCare?

  136. Jesse’s not feeling the love Sharpton’s getting from Teh Won.

  137. Ok guys, what about some honest-to-goodness gloating about the Obamas not being invited to the William-Kate wedding?

  138. NES, the couple feared his and her Ipods.

  139. Hahahahaha, mcn.
    Also, the Queen’s back hasn’t quite recovered from that ‘pat’ MO gave it.

  140. Yes, that hug was something else. haha

  141. Mitty is an animal abuser as well as being one gosh awful Rino. Mitty is Mormon but lol the folks here can’t stand him. Oh and I doubt Utah will toss much support behind Huntsman either another back stabbing pond scum sucking critter. Seriously for conservatives there isn’t much to choose from. I do not mean right wing religious fanatic conservative either.

  142. On the wedding I love it. I guess that ought to be an in your face moment. The Royals were smart enough to know that having these dumb clutz’s who are inept at any social graces or protocol would try to turn the whole affair into something about them.
    Kind of akin to inviting backwoods bubba to a black tie ball.


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