Anthony Case, FYI: Alternate juror interview

The blog has been abuzz with the Anthony trial, with plenty of argument one way or another. As you know, I did not think the Prosecution proved a thing other than that child is dead and somebody hid her body. I thought Casey was a POS poster girl for white trash and I felt she was guilty. But we don’t convict in an American court of law based on what we “feel”.  The case, to me, was oozing Reasonable Doubt.  If I were on the jury I would have  been forced to do the same thing they did: Find her Not Guilty. This does not mean Innocent, it simply means there was no really useful evidence to say beyond a reasonable doubt that she killed her child.

Here is an interview with the alternate juror who notably took copious notes.

60 Responses

  1. Alan Dershowitz was on CNN tonight saying something I learned a long time ago. Our system of justice is not about “justice” or fairness. It doesn’t seek to right the wrongs. It is merely about upholding the laws.

  2. The alternate juror sounds pretty reasonable & intelligent. Based on the prosecution’s case, I think he’s right on his conclusions. The prosecution blew it by over-charging her (murder one & 2 “aggravated” lesser charges) when I think the best they could have hoped for (on the evidence) was negligent homicide (no special circumstance, that is not “aggravated”).

    All in all, I thank God we live in a country where it takes more than “she’s a lying slut with a tattoo” to get a murder conviction.

  3. Well I am not so sure Dershowitz is always concerned with justice himself. I just think the system is designed to protect the innocent by erring on the side of caution. There is no greater travesty of justice than to convict an innocent person. Thus, reasonable doubt is VERY important to the system. I think the system worked as it should in this case. There have been more than enough people released from prison these days, even death row, after decades incarcerated and DNA proving the decision to be wrong. So, while a scumbucket or two might slip by, overall the system is as it should be. What bothers me far more is our habit of releasing criminals who were proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and giving them passes to serve a fraction of their sentences. This I believe is what is ruining our system of justice. Ten years should be ten years. Life should be life. Criminals treat these sentences as jokes.

  4. All in all, I thank God we live in a country where it takes more than “she’s a lying slut with a tattoo” to get a murder conviction.

    Well put!

  5. Imust, our justice system is about fairness, but only procedural (not substantive) fairness, ie, due process for the accused. It’s also an adversarial system, not an inquisitorial system, which means it doesn’t make the unearthing of the truth its highest priority. The assumption is that the truth will out through the clash of each side’s story, or not at all. With criminal law, the burden for the prosecution is punishingly high because the shared assumption is that it’s better to let off many guilty persons than risk one innocent person being convicted.

  6. Right on, angienc and UW!

  7. Hmm. While I agree with angie’s lying slut statement, as a parent who has lived through a childs disappearance, I thought she was guilty as hell. When we first heard that my stepson was missing, the first thing we did was report to the police, we then launched into a massive search operation that included the help of hundreds of friends and family, helicopters, & all forms of the media. We tried to get the “Sheriffs-to-the-Stars” to help us, and release the Search and Rescue team, but they refused. See NES…there’s your proof that none of us are celebs, if we were, the Sheriffs dept would have been groveling to help out. Anyway, after nonstop day and night searches that I and some friends had organized to a farethewell, my darling stepson was found dead in his car by myself, laker, my niece and her husband. It was the third night since we had started searching. We had come very close to where his car had gone over a cliff earlier that afternoon in a helicopter. Anyway, later one of the sheriffs admitted to all of us that when he heard that we had found him, he was pissed that it hadn’t been them. One of his former gfs was with us at the time and told him “you would have had to be looking to have found him”. So, so true!

  8. Here’s the case as it was prosecuted:.

    She killed her daughter.

    How did she kill her daughter?

    We don’t know. We just know she killed her because she’s dead.

    Well how did she die?

    We don’t know, we just know she killed her.

    Well where’s the proof?

    She went dancing. She’s trash. And a couple of people said they smelled death in the trunk and there was a hair!

    Could that hair have gotten there any way at all, considering whose car it was?

    Yes, but it didn’t. It got there because she killed her daughter. And there was that stain.

    What stain? Most of the jury couldn’t see a stain.

    Well, it was there. And there was duct tape on the body.

    Well how do you know she put that body there?

    Because she did. She’s trash and she killed her daughter and wanted to party.

    Ok but how do you know she did it?

    Because she did. And her father had that same duct tape.

    So how do you know her father didn’t put the tape on the child?

    He didn’t. She did.

    Say, how come you didn’t go pick up that skull the first time the utility guy took a pee?A lot of time went by, you know?

    Doesn’t matter. She did it.

  9. Anyway, having heard he was missing, it just never occurred to any of us to go out clubbing, get a tattoo, etc. And when we found his dead body, we called 911. Instead of planning a ridiculous scheme to hide the body that was doomed to fail, we planned a beautiful memorial. I just think in my heart that this girl is a l i a r.

  10. my darling stepson was found dead in his car by myself, laker, my niece and her husband. It was the third night since we had started searching. We had come very close to where his car had gone over a cliff earlier that afternoon in a helicopter.

    God.

  11. socal. I think in MY heart she’s a liar too. I think she killed her child. But we don’t convict on what we Think. We convict on what we Know to be fact.

  12. I believe I wrote about this here and on NQ as that it had happened to someone else a couple of years ago. My reason for this was that I didn’t want someone (like some mean bot that I may have argued with on NQ) to figure out who I was, becuz the story was all over the media. As time has passed, some of the media references have been scrubbed or fallen off, so I’m not as paranoid.

  13. “But we don’t convict on what we Think. We convict on what we Know to be fact.”

    Oh I know. And I agree, deep down. I just really despise her after what I went through. In any event, she will surely get whatever she has coming to her in the end.

  14. I have to say all the talking heads, especially the Fox talking heads are amusing me today. I have listened for a week about how they were all so sure she would be convicted. today, we are hearing bullcrappers like hannity pretend he thought it was a weak case. Yes, that’s right folks, they all guessed right. You can believe that if you erase the past week of their babbling to the contrary.

  15. socal, you were wise to keep the information to yourself. Obots are very nasty little creatures. They wouldn’t have cared about your grief, just about torturing you.

    Yes socal. nobody dispenses justice like Karma.

  16. I haven’t watched any news today, but from what little I’ve read online, it does look like they were all taken aback. I wonder what Nancy Grace had to say.

  17. Grace says
    “the devil is dancing”.

    I take Nancy wih a grain. She is the way she is for a reason. Her fiance, love of her life, was murdered on the street and she never got over it. So she’s pretty aggressive in her hatred or suspects. She wears her anger over that event on her sleeve.

  18. I just looked at latimes & they said the parents went into hiding. They had this article about Casey (she sounds sociopathic):

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/os-casey-anthony-today-show-bodyguard20110701,0,3506382.story?obref=obnetwork

  19. Thanks for reminding me about Nancy. That is a very sad story.

  20. Yes I would bet money Casey has several cans missing from her six pack. She’s a pathological liar, for starters. And God knows what personality disorder she has.

  21. TMZ has a funny post up about Kim Kardashian being shocked about the verdict:

    “Kim Kardashian — whose father Robert Kardashian was one of O.J. Simpson’s lawyers — is FLABBERGASTED by the verdict in the Casey Anthony trial. Kim tweeted, “WHAT!!!!???!!!! CASEY ANTHONY FOUND NOT GUILTY!!!! I am speechless!!!”

    Funny … people had a similar reaction in 1995.”

  22. Oh God, I am so sick of hearing about the No-Talent Kardashians, who are most famous for not having done anything ever.Jesus, this country has sunk so low that they have to pull people off the street and make them celebrities most known for Nothing.

    Yeah, funny a Kardashian should be speechless about this.

  23. Upps, you’re forgetting…Kim K is famous for something. She’s famous for making a sex tape with a young black rapper. In the sex tape, he pees all over her. Seriously. That’s why they’re all famous. The sex tape made Kim famous, and then they all piled on from there. And now its snowballing into reality show hell, people with too many kids, hoods in Jersey, etc. Absolutely disgusting. And they make all Americans look like morons becuz these ratty shows make money.

  24. Well isn’t she just a perfect model for our young girls, then?

  25. And how about that little beiber freak. 15 years old and they cover him like he’s 30, kissing candids and going on dates. Hands on girls’ asses. He’s walking child porn. He’s a child for Chrissakes. And he’s annoying as hell. What a waste of a beautiful voice that little freak is turning out to be. I am hoping his voice changes and the whole thing gets cancelled one day when he opens his mouth and wierd deep sounds come out. That would be his karma. The kids think he’s so cool. He threw up on stage and they all practically wanted a spoon to eat it, the stupid little morons. The press is so disgusting covering him like he’s actually some kind of worldly stud. I have socks older than that pissant. Karma! We need a voice change ASAP!

  26. Ah I see Google’s latest trick is to pester you to make them your home page so they can really stick their nose in your business. And unless you accept yet another spy cookie from them, they will keep asking you every time you use their site.

  27. Wasn’t that Kardashian freak with OJ in the car chase or something? He spawned? Oh jesus.

  28. omg, laker can’t stand beiber. He calls him Fleaber.

  29. Al Cowlings (sp?) the football player was with him in the white bronco. Kardashian read a weird, rambling letter from oj to the public while it was going on. God, that was weird.

  30. Yeah okay that’s right. I knew Kardashian was in the smarmy mess.

    Laker Dude. That’s my boy!

  31. socal — I truly feel horrible about what you went through & my comment was not meant to make “light” of the fact that a little girl is dead due to foul play (because the only way a 2 year old ends up dead & buried in the woods is from foul play), it was only my summing up of what the prosecution’s “case” against her boiled down to. I’m sure she was involved in that child’s death, and the biggest thing that makes me think that is exactly what you wrote: the way she acted while the girl was missing, not reporting her missing, etc. But, I concur with UW — what I know in my gut isn’t proof & certainly not enough to vote for Murder 1 or the 2 aggravated lesser charges (“aggravated” means that there was malice or intent to kill). I do think that if the DA had gone with a lesser charge as their top count (like negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter — which means no malice or “intent” to kill) they could have gotten a conviction based on the “how she behaved after” factors. By over-charging, the prosecution blew it, IMO.

  32. angie, your comment was great & I liked it very much. I don’t want to live where people are judged by appearances either. I was pointing out our experience to show what normal parents really do when their kid goes missing. Agree with you also about the DA. You didn’t offend me at all. This is a very frustrating case, but these things do happen all the time.

  33. Having devoted too much of my time and attention to the latest “Trial of the Century”, I am strongly inclined to believe that Casey Anthony was solely responsible for the death of her daughter. But, today’s verdict notwithstanding, I can only be dead certain of one thing:

    The whole Anthony clan is, beyond any reasonable doubt, guilty of…

    Bad parenting.

    And I have long held that this particular plague is ultimately the primary source of all of the man made ills throughout human history.

    Just my two cents. (And I haven’t another penny to give)

  34. Bad parenting.

    Passed down from one generation to another.

  35. Morning everyone. Getting ready to bring dog to the vet and will probably spend the rest of my time chewing my nails and worrying. I won’t be of much use to you till I get her back home later. Have a good day. I see a Lorac in the drafts section and don’t know if it’s done or not or if she wants me to release it. She didn’t schedule it, so I guess you will just have to wait.
    Here’s a real singer to explain it. Unlike the Non Singers we have in the year 2011. No Pyrotechnics needed. Just…..well……..talent. What a novel idea.

  36. The grandparents as good Christians knew that God doesn’t want Bastards in his world. So when the child died they knew that was a sign that their Harlot child needed to be punished too.
    Being (a former Cop) George also knew from previous experience how to set up their Daughter to be punished by the State, but it didn’t work.

  37. I thought I was explaining how the situation occured.
    My current view is that God (if there is one) can be likened to a five year old child all alone in a sandbox with it’s toys.

  38. I thought I was explaining how the situation occured.
    My current view is that God (if there is one) can be likened to a five year old child all alone in a sandbox with it’s toys.

    You know what, Mik? These far right fanatics are such assclowns that you can’t even parody them. I actually thought you were one of them just because that is EXACTLY how they sound. I actually put your post up to serve as a horrible warning of what would come with their ‘leaders’. Accept my apology and don’t forget to go to church!

  39. I disagree with you all. The way she acted did have bearing on the case. I don’t think it was “she was a slut and therefore she was guilty” argument, but that is how you are seeing it. She did not report a 2 year old child who was supposedly “missing” for 31 days. That alone is child abuse. She is the PARENT and is/was SOLELY responsible for her care and welfare. The “partying” shows lack of concern and motive. Please don’t turn this into a feminist issue, it’s a PARENTING issue, or lack of it.

  40. Still, imust, no proof she killed the child even though we all think she did. I don’t actually see where anybody turned this into a feminist issue. I AM seeing it as a case where the defendent was a most odious person in appearance, actions and attitude. But that isn’t grounds for a conviction absent of reasonable doubt, not in our courts of law. That’s why they did convict her for lying to the police. My guess they couldn’t convict her on the bad parenting charge because once again all they had proof of was that she was a damned pathological liar.

  41. Dog has been delivered to vet. I need a drink.

  42. I’m sure the book publishers have already made a call to the alternate juror. Let’s see, will it be out before Halloween, Thanksgiving or Christmas?

  43. I disagree again, sorry. She was guilty of at the very least neglect. They didn’t try to convict of that because their thrust was that she didn’t report it because she was the murderer, perhaps they felt it weakened the murder charges to stress the gross negligence in not reporting her missing. I believe she is sociopathic and is incapable of not only telling the truth, but knowing the truth. The truth is whatever she is saying at the moment. She also destroyed the evidence by her lies and negligence, certainly an obstruction of justice charge could have been levied. She lied and ultimately committed the perfect crime.

  44. I hope you’re having that drink, Upps. But, don’t worry, I’m sure the needle-nose will be fine. Keep us apprised.

  45. I understand what you are saying about the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof being on the state, but it does mean that “injustice” will occur. In the larger sense this benefits us all, but it is damn unfair to the particular individual who was wronged. There was no justice for Caylee, and that is a sad fact of life.

  46. Dog has been delivered to vet. I need a drink.

    I say the same thing post vet visit. But I say ” get Mommy a drink”
    lol! Sending good thoughts to your pooch

  47. I appreciate what you’re saying imust. I think the SOB did it, and I think her old man was there too, but I think the prosecution would have done far better to investigate longer, follow that bunch of yahoos around and sooner or later one of them would slip up and lead them to something tangible for a conviction. This family isn’t exactly comprised of lit bulbs. They just aren’t that bright. They would have given up some real evidence sooner or later. I see the prosecutor just announced he is “retiring”. We know what that means. It means he dropped the ball. But I think ‘jumped the gun’ is more llike it.

  48. Thanks paper doll. The vet will call me around noon. So I will just go ahead and chew my fingers to the knuckle till then.

  49. imust, they did try to convict her of abuse or some equivalent of bad parenting and the jury nixed that too. This is because they nixed the murder charges and the negligence/abuse/whatever was related to those charges. It would probably have been more helpful, though, if the police fetched that skull the first time the utility guy who took a whiz reported it. They went into this trial with NO idea how that child died. Strike One.

  50. Yeah McNorman, the alternate was said to be taking constant notes. The only one. I’m sure he wrote his book outline instead. I sure would have.

  51. I think the verdict was the only one that could be handed down given the evidence. The only other way this could have gone would have been a hung jury and mistrial. I watched it and although her actions such as not reporting the child missing would make one lean towards guilt there was not one bit of proof to say she did.
    One can argue that Scott Peterson was convicted on circumstancial evidence as well but in Scott Petersons case they did have a parking ticket that placed him there where the body was dumped the night Lacy was tossed into the bay and the bodies of Connor and Lacy both washed up in that exact area of that parking ticket therefore placing him at the scene. That is strong enough circumstancial evidence convict.
    You do not have that in this case all you have is a baby that is dead and a mother that seemed to not give a damn.
    The case was not about child abuse although they tossed that charge in but the prosecution never pushed the child abuse thing they tried to shove the cold blooded murder down the jury’s throat with nothing to give .
    We all see her as a piece of shit but how many pieces of shit have you seen or met in your lifetime ? That does not make them murderers.
    I too however feel that she did it but again the prosecution failed here.

  52. Hey I never went to bed last night. What do you think of that?

  53. We’ll see who gets on the bookstand first, Anthony or the alternate juror.

  54. That’s true, imust, “injustice” does occur in our system, although much less frequently than rumored.
    On a related point, I agree with you that the prosecution made a big mistake in overcharging and overreaching with the capital murder charge; they could’ve probably gotten her on criminal negligence had they not overplayed their hand. By overcharging Casey, with a charge carrying the death penalty no less, they ensured jury sympathy for her.

  55. McNorman, I’d read the juror’s book. I wouldn’t give spit for Anthony’s book.

  56. I’ve been thinking about this, and resisting the impulse to post about it.

    Yes, there was no definite proof of premeditated murder, but consider this:

    The child was in Casey Anthony’s care
    The child ended up dead

    Somewhere in that equation, there is responsibility that extends to Casey Anthony.

    I am not surprised about the verdict on Murder 1. I am surprised that they did not find a lesser murder rap, which they as a jury were completely within their rights to do.

    I am OUTRAGED that there was a “not guilty” verdict on child abuse or endangerment.

    (Unless, of course, it is customary in that neck of the woods to duct tape your own mouth before taking a dip in the f*cking pool…)

  57. Right on, angienc and UW!
    and F/F. great header 🙂

  58. The child was in Casey Anthony’s care
    The child ended up dead
    Somewhere in that equation, there is responsibility that extends to Casey Anthony.

    Exactly!

  59. The child was in Casey Anthony’s care
    The child ended up dead
    Somewhere in that equation, there is responsibility that extends to Casey Anthony.

    150% agree but sadly they did not go with that angle they presented the entire bulk of their case around garnering a murder 1 conviction. Had they pursued the abuse charge which they needed little to prove that one they would have gotten a conviction I am sure. They really dropped the ball on that one because there they had a provable case . When they pursued murder without evidence to prove beyond doubt they let the abuse charge stand as a matter of fact thing. Had they gone for manslaughter only and then pursued the child abuse they most likely would have nailed her slimey worthless white trash ass to a wall.

  60. Helloo ((((UPPITY’S))))

    How’s the puppy UW???

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