Why Not Vaccinate The Boys With Gardasil?

(Note: Your front-pager today is McNorman – UW)

First, let’s define the issues on the Perry Gardasil Pinata Party: money and parental authority.

Did Bachmann’s drug lobbyist claims ring true?.

The exchange involves multiple claims.

Statement No. 1:

Bachmann: “We cannot forget that in the midst of this executive order, there was a big drug company that made millions of dollars because of this mandate. We can’t deny that.”

The facts:

Perry in February 2007 signed an executive order directing the state Health and Human Services commissioner to mandate human papillomavirus vaccination for all girls before admission to the sixth grade. Perry at the time released a statement saying that the vaccine “provides us with an incredible opportunity to effectively target and prevent cervical cancer,” which HPV can cause.

At the time, the only such vaccine that the Food and Drug Administration had approved was Gardasil, made by Merck & Co.

HPV vaccine considered safe

Texas’ rules were to take effect in September 2008. However, the Texas Legislature passed a bill overturning Perry’s order in April 2007. Perry declined to veto the bill, which went into effect in May 2007, killing his order.

The verdict:

False. The executive order didn’t last long enough to produce a mandate. Therefore, there was no mandate that would have caused Merck to make millions of dollars.

Statement No. 2:

Bachmann: “The governor’s former chief of staff was the chief lobbyist for this drug company.”

The facts:

Michael Toomey, a former three-term state representative from Houston, served as Perry’s chief of staff from December 2002 to September 2004.

Toomey was a lobbyist for a number of companies — including Merck — before and after he served in Perry’s office, according to the Texas Ethics Commission. He was registered in Texas to lobby for Merck from at least 1998 to 2002, and from 2004 to the present, according to the commission.

The verdict:

True. Toomey was as a lobbyist for Merck. However, CNN could not find evidence to confirm or dispute that he was the company’s “chief lobbyist.”

Statement No. 3:

Perry’s defense: “The company was Merck, and it was a $5,000 contribution that I had received from them.”

The facts:

Merck’s political action committee did give Perry $5,000 in 2006, when he was seeking a second full term. But it also gave him nearly $25,000 more over the course of his career, including a $10,000 donation in 2004; $5,000 in 2002; $1,000 in 2005; $1,000 in 2000; $2,500 in 2008; and another $5,000 in his most recent run, in 2010.

The verdict:


Texas laws on money donations are some of the laxest in the country, so it comes as no surprise that Perry would be offended by Bachmann’s comments. You can’t buy anyone for $5000.00 in Texas. I can’t imagine that anyone actually believes a politician can be bought, can you? (Ahahahahaha, I had to try three times to type that one.)

As for the safety of the vaccine? Just my opinion, but in life you take a risk no matter what unless you stop breathing. Everything in life is a risk. so we must be vigilant and calculate whether to take that risk.

DePinho: Opposing HPV Vaccine “Unethical”

His recommendation for anyone who opposes the vaccine: “Visit one patient with cervical cancer in an advanced state.”

I have, and it’s incredibly sad. So much promise and hope only to be undermined by something that can be prevented. I do believe that the carriers (males) should be the ones vaccinated. The complications and risk factors are lower for them. Make no mistake, cancer is a possibility for both sexes when it comes to HPV.

Bottom line, many very young kids ARE sexually active.  Are we going to protect children from themselves, or should we take a wait and see approach? I don’t know the answer. As a parent, this decision weighed heavily on me. I also thought about all those HPV infections that could happen through rape or other avenues that my child would not have a choice in. Life is not fair, is it?


142 Responses

  1. Anyone who thinks that fair and life are compatible are too naive. Good thoughtful post mcnorman. I have one of each gender – I had no problem with the polio, pertussis, measles, chicken pox, smallpox etc vaccines. My grandma died of TB and for years after I had to be tested – a process which included a chest X-Ray every single year. Given the choice had there been an effective vaccine at that time – I would have opted for the shot. Another note, it was announced years ago that smallpox was eliminated so vaccines were no longer necessary. Since vaccines haven’t been routinely given, it’s re-appearing.

  2. Your headline says it all – but some pediatricians ARE vaccinating the boys, so I intend to discuss exactly this topic w/him soon…

    (Yep, visited the patient dying of advanced cervical cancer too; it just so happened that at the same time I was having my thyroidectomy at MDA, a friend of my mother’s 22-yr old granddaughter was hosp there too… Can’t imagine anything more tragic than dying of a preventable disease.)

  3. Excellent post mcnorman. Echoing my thoughts on vaccinating the carriers too!
    Damn insurance companies in most cases STILL WILL NOT pay for the vaccine. What the hell are they thinking? The cost of treating the cancer is much much more expensive. They pay for recreational drugs for men so they can keep spreading it around- but the drug to protect women? Nope.
    Schools require Measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis and- in some states and most colleges and universities- the meniningitis vaccine.
    Wonder if anybody offhand knows the stats on the likelihood of contractig the HPV virus as opposed to hepatitis or meningitis.

  4. Hiya Val, hows my favorite veterinarian doing? I think it’s great that you are considering vaccination for your son(s).

  5. Because women have to be the responsible ones. That’s the way it always worked in my house. Virginia mandates. I don’t have kids, and I haven’t talked to my sisters about it. You can opt-out. The Republican House of Delegates have been trying to change it, it’s not worked for them so far.

    I had a friend from high school die from cervical cancer. You don’t think about pap smears in your twenty’s. Now I make it a point.

  6. Oh FF, nice header. Coo coo katchu.

  7. “I also thought about all those HPV infections that could happen through rape or other avenues that my child would not have a choice in…”

    Vaccinating boys would not protect girls from the above (incl. their male family members, male neighbors, male other-attackers, etc.)

    But my argument would be the constitutional gender equality which we supposedly have (means both sexes would be vaccinated or it violates the constitution) but not really until the ERA gets passed and clearly, in writing, guarantees us equality!

    In general I am wary of “vaccinations” which can include all kinds of extras like RIFD chips. I am FOR sex education very early, including education about molestation. I

  8. This post is very personal to me. My 54 year old sister is currently in remission from tongue cancer that spread to her lymph nodes in her neck. It was stage 4 when she discovered the lump in her throat. Fortunately, we live my Johns Hopkins Hospital which is leading the way in treating HPV head and neck cancers. She had chemo and radiation, she lost 20 pounds (While I would welcome that, she only weighed 110 pounds when she was diagnosed.) Thankfully, she has finished the treatments, is cancer free and counting the days until 5 years when she will be deemed to be ‘cured’. However, she went through hell. Because the sores in her mouth and throat were so bad, and the nausea so horrible, she needed a feeding tube to be inserted into her stomach. She poured her nutrition into her tube for months. She no longer has tears (ducts were destroyed), has diminished taste, has trouble swallowing and is often fatigued. But she feels lucky. She hopes to see her three children continue to grow!

    Partly due to my sister’s condition and partly because I believe in preventive medicine, I fought to have my two daughters vaccinated before insurance was paying for the vaccine. It cost me a fortune. There are three shots per person and they cost over $150 each. Now, I am fighting to get my son his vaccine. He gets his last shot 11/2!! I had to wait until the American Pediatrician Association, or whatever it is called, approved the vaccine for boys. Once again I am paying for it, because Blue Cross does not cover it for boys.

    I am getting the vaccine for my son because I don’t want him to transmit the HPV virus to the women he loves AND because he is at risk for the head and neck cancer that my sister suffers and anal cancer (like the one that killed Farrah Fawcett), just as much as are women.

    Mcnorman, thank you so much for this post. xxoox I am sorry that I am being so long-winded, but you can probably tell how personal this is to me. I hate to see the right-wing crazies use this as a weapon against Perry. It is probably the only thing I agree with Perry about!!

  9. I would not give this to my child period ! It is too soon to tell about lasting effects etc. I have been doing tons of reading on it and there are too many cases out there of paralyzing girls to death etc. I would take a wait and see approach. I am never jumping in on a new drug. I feel government needs to butt the hell out of forcing us to do anything to our bodies including vaccinate.

  10. I am sorry but I do not feel I could live with myself if my kid were paralyzed or killed because I gave them this shot. I think I would rather let them make the choice once they were old enough. Both my grand daughters refuse to take it thus far.

  11. Parents have to make these kinds of choices all the time. I have a teenaged daughter with multiple handicaps. She has had several surgeries over the years, some that were necessary for her survival, some that just made her life better. When they were “voluntary”, I always had to weigh the benefit to the risk. She could go under the knife and have a better quality of life, or the surgery might make her condition worse. Plus there’s always a risk of death with surgery! It’s very hard because we have more choices. But at the same time, if my daughter had been born 50 years ago, she may have never lived to see her 1st birthday.

  12. honora – amazing and thanks – good to know.

  13. OT: Obama has another Beer! Obama loves his Beer Summits, especially if he thinks they will make him look like regular “folks” and be good PR for his re-election!

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama has shared a beer with Dakota Meyer at the White House the evening before presenting the former Marine with the Medal of Honor.
    The White House revealed the private moment shared by the two men Wednesday evening on the patio outside of the Oval Office. A White House ceremony to bestow the medal to Meyer is set for Thursday.

  14. Utah- I can appreciate your thinking. As for my family- when daughter turned 16 she and I together with the doctor- made the decision to vaccinate. Of course damn BC/BS would not pay for it- so it was out of pocket for us. Having had a very very bad scare with severe cervical dysplasia due to the virus- it was not something I wanted her to ever go through. Lucky that I made sure of having the PAP every year- or who knows what might have evolved.
    Life is a risk- of one kind or another. The Rubella vaccine? I HAD German Measles as a kid. They tested me after child 1- and found I had no immunity- so gave me the vaccine. After child 2- same test- again no immunity- so vaccinated again. It must have finally taken hold cuz I did have the immunity after child 3.
    Do vaccines always work? No. But to me- anything that reduces my daughter’s risk of contracting the HPV virus is a good thing.

  15. The only thing that bothers me is the concept of FORCE. Now I can see force for pandamics, this is true. But Perry has been rabid about Obamacare being Unconstitutional. The Republicans have been very strong about this, Commerce Clause being misused, forcing Americans to buy a product without choice. Yet, Rick Perry thought it was just fine for HIM to force women to have sonograms without choice, look at them without choice, and pay for them, and force girls to be vaccinated without choice, and pay for it. To me this is EXACTLY the same thing as what he hs howling about with Obamacare. Forcing people to pay for things they do not want or may not want.

  16. As IF Obama drinks beer when nobody’s looking. What a joke this guy is. Regular guy. My ass.

  17. Mom, I had four smallpox vaccinations and I don’t remember how many others (only remember the smallpox because if you were immunized, supposedly you would have a scar). Doctors finally figured out that I had a very healthy immune system. Might be the same with you and your daughter.

  18. Mom, I hear you about HPV. I also know that this is your CHOICE. To force this risk onto a parent or girl’s life is just plain wrong.

  19. Kinda off topic but I’ve been meaning to stick it in. Here is another Reason Ron Paul zealots are sick bastards. From debate. Very sick person needs medical care, has no insurance:

    Ron Paul: That is what freedom is all about and taking your own risks. This whole idea that you have to take care of everyone…

    (at this point members of audience cheer)

    Moderator: But congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die?

    (at this point, members of audience shout “YES!”)

    Now I don’t care, these are sicko bastards. And I’ll bet they’re all “pro life” too.

  20. Indeed Uppity! Choice!
    It galls me though that the insurance companies will pay for the menz fun drugs- and not pay for a cancer preventing vaccine for women. That is another debate though.
    Saw some blurbs about those sickos from the debate- they are insane- clueless. And would change their minds in a heartbeat if it was one of their family members.

  21. What I’ve read about the choice thing was that Perry had to make it an Opt-out rather than an Opt-in or insurance companies wouldn’t have to pay for it. So by making it opt-out, they had to pay.

  22. Hi everyone. As I told lorac and HT last night, we finally got some good rain in the desert. Unfortunately, that rain wets my line which causes the cable to go out which is how I am able to use the internet. 😦

    Honora, you aren’t long winded. I read what happened to your sister at His44. I pray that her recovery becomes quicker.

    I’m with Uppity on this one. This is about choice. Utah, I understand and I waited before we jumped into this vaccine. Luckily, my daughter was close to becoming an adult. We spoke in depth about it. I am a mother first, and a friend second. Ultimately, she made that choice as an adult.

    As most of you know, I taught college level for 26 years. I saw multitudes of students undergo continuous monitoring for cervical cancer. Some had hysterectomies by the time that they were 21. That was heartbreaking. There was no choice for them.

    Finally, I’m glad that parents of young males are given the choice to vaccinate or not. Life for young couples is already hard enough. Add cancer to the equation and that is heartless.

  23. There is so much more behind the Gardasil question that I just could not let this one go with snippets. Anytime a vaccine is given, one takes a risk. My kid already had surmounted Mt Everest in my opinion. She had overcome a severe birth defect which made me worry about this choice more than anyone will ever know.

  24. imust, the thing is, these ideas should have OPT INs not OPT OUts. Reminds me of the NY nut who tried to make a law to own your body when you die and harvest your organs……with an “opt out” if you know about it. These are not OPT OUT issues when it comes to a person’s own body. They are OPT IN issues. States make laws about health insurance all the time, they could have just as easily forced insurance companies to pay for it with Opt in.

    These are invasive ideas. And invasive is wrong. I notice there was no OPT OUT with his idea to force women who want an abortion to have a sonogram either. Fortunately, it was struck down. As it should have been. I get VERY uncomfortable when elected officials start tampering with what people should and should not do with their own bodies. That goes for food, sex or anything else. If you aren’t breaking laws, then they need to mind their own damned business. These dictators are getting increasingly outrageous, IMO, and they must have their horns pulled in. Right OR Left.

    There were certain times (and those times might come again with unchecked illegal immigration) when certain diseases were pandemic or epidemic, such as polio, for example–due to massive contagion where the victim didn’t have to do much at all to contract it. Measles is an example too. In those times, vaccinations by law were the right thing to do. But with this illness, what our government is supposed to do is educate and tell doctors to educate, and make sure insurers PAY for it. We have to make sure that they aren’t using girls for guinea pigs like they did with women and HRT. Long range data collection is big when it comes to the gender that is not protected by the Constitution, isn’t it?

  25. `Something to take notice of. Michael Douglas’ throat cancer is more than likely a result of HPV.

    an Ohio State study recently found that people with more than six lifetime oral sex partners have the greatest oropharyngeal cancer risk. It’s not yet clear why some people with HPV get this throat cancer while others do not. But it does appear that decades can elapse between HPV infection and the appearance of cancer.


  26. There is a dirty little secret in America and it’s called HCV. Hepatitis C is rampant, also caused by too damned many sex partners who are infected, or can be contracted by just ONE partner who is infected. Yet our government does nothing about this. Talk about costing the medical system plenty of trillions, liver transplants are expensive and so is cirrhosis, and end stage liver disease. It seems cirrhosis is some kind of shameful side effect because it implies drinking. HVC cirrhosis has nothing to do with alcohol. Many of these people are sick for decades, getting progressively worse. People have contracted it from transfusions before it was discovered. Others can get it from dirty tattoo needles, drug needles, etc. This is a very long lived virus. A speck of infected blood can live for days. It is far more long lived than the HIV virus. Babies are born infected. This is a serious issue, and I find it very odd that our government acts like it doesn’t exist. Just saying.

  27. I have to wonder if Catherine Zeta Jones has had her boys vaccinated. Male carriers are asymptomatic.

  28. All I can say is, I’m glad I’m not out there in the marketplace sexually active. If I were, I wouldn’t let a guy near me without 3 condoms and duct tape.

  29. Yes UW, the Hepatitis C is a nightmare. Most people don’t realize that these diseases play a significant role in healing from other problems such as surgery. Just like smoking. Everyone wants to talk about lung cancer. When you have surgery, there is a greater chance that you will have delayed or poor healing (not unlike diabetes).

  30. McNorman and your rain. See, there is good and bad in everything, hey?

    Meanwhile, we have yet MORE heavy rains. I don’t think I can stand doing this much longer. The only good thing about it is I learned that our roof is very secure. Many of my friends weren’t as lucky. But my basement requires work when there is as much rain as we have been having and I’m getting pretty sick of it. Enough is enough, FCS!

  31. I wouldn’t let a guy near me without 3 condoms and duct tape.

    I hear you.

  32. You can send more this way UW. Very little rain in the desert is deadly. What you call rain is a flood of biblical proportion out here. We would all have been swimming in the Gulf by now if it were raining like it is up in your neck of the woods.

  33. A few years ago, we had the 500 year event. AP shot a pic of a guy in a canoe rowing past abandoned vehicles on I-10.

  34. Honora, I am so sorry to hear what happened to your sister and so proud you are having your son vaccinated. I think McNorman is right. It’s high time boys were just as reponsbile for what they do as girls. Insurance should pay for EVERY ONE of these vaccines, and it should be done with OPT IN. This is an easy achievement for a state legislative branch. They do it all the time. Reconstructive surgery after breast surgery for cancer patients is a classic example of that law. BX BS blows goats. I remember when they were THE insurance company. Everybody was covered by them. You went to the doctor when you needed to and they paid for it, period. You paid 15 percent and the 15 percent was PEANUTS. BX BS stuck it up New Yorkers butts over Obamacare, but good. They raised the premiums 33 percent last Jan. just before Obamacare and then bumped it up another 15-20 percent in December. They need to have their horns pulled in and start acting like a not for profit. To me, this is the way to go with insurers. Not For Profit, period. No more deciding who lives and dies for the stockholders.

  35. Oh wouldn’t that be great UW? Not for profit should be the rule when it comes to insurers.

  36. Honora, I paid in full for that vaccine. Blue Crap Blue Shite wouldn’t pay for it either.

  37. Did anybody see the story about the 24 year old who died from a tooth infection because the meds were so expensive, he skipped the antibiotics and bought the pain killers? Too bad he wasn’t in Canada, the same drugs, made here, would have been affordable. Just saying.

  38. McNorman, not for profit has been my argument all along. With fixed overhead too! No more big time salaries for too many stockholder whores. And they should be audited but not OWNED by the government. Everybody should be able to buy from any insurer they want, no more Insurers owning entire states. Sliding scale premiums and all of these problems would go away. No more medicaid, everybody in the system that way. And ALL decisions made between doctor and patient. No intervention from insurers who hire people to kill patients and help the profit line.

  39. BBL…had jury duty and now must catch up @ work. sigh

  40. Hey McNorman, this turned out to be one HOT post. Thanks!

  41. mcnorman- yeah I paid for it out of pocket for my daughter. Stupid stupid me- I did not record the call I made to Bull crap bull shit. Had called them ahead of time to see if it was a covered expense. Of COURSE they assured me it was covered. NOT! Now I never ever communicate with them by phone unless I record the conversation- always informing them it IS being recorded of course. My preferred method of communication now is certified snail mail.

  42. While studying for my Insurance License in 2009 I learned that all 50 States have Insurance Commissioners who ARE SUPPOSED to monitor these companies to ensure that the Insurance Companies to whom they grant the controlled right to sell certain insurance products benefit from limited competition. Not all Insurance Companies are licensed to sell all their products in all states. The only profits Insurance Companies should be making are off their CONSERVATIVE investments: Community projects like income housing, office buildings, etc. Insurance Companies (A.I.G.) who risked policy-holders’ premiums in credit-default swaps and high risk, “get bigger profits quick” schemes should have been caught and siezed by their respective Insurance Commissioners. Gamblers pick their poison. Cautious gamblers grind it out at their various skill games like Black Jack and Poker. The element of “risk” lends the excitement that entertains them. Insurance isn’t supposed to enrich, just make policy holders “whole” again when inanticipated risk levels you despite your best efforts to conduct your business responsibly. As for boys getting the vaccine, is there a shot to mitigate the unrelenting pressure for sex they introduce into even casual relationships before they even know the girl’s name much less the risk they represent to her? My experience has taught me that testosterone-driven men are human syringes with one problem: no licensed medical professional exerting the pressure behind the prick.

  43. At least in NY, all “commissions” are a nice way of saying We Are Owned By The Companies We Are Supposed To Monitor”. There is an epidemic of this in the USA. Government agencies designed to protect us are in the pockets of the very people they are supposed to protect us from. From Consumer Protection Agencies to Commissions. Look what happened with BP. The agency we PAY for to protect us from their practices that can kill us, turned out to be Owned by them, winks and nods all around. We are PAYING these agencies to screw us. The pattern is obvious. They all end up working for the companies they are supposed to be monitoring. Or someone from the company gets put in charge of its own previous monitoring agency. Think USDA and it’s big shot from MONSANTO.

  44. Government agencies designed to protect us are in the pockets of the very people they are supposed to protect us from

    Monsanto and the FDA came immediately to mind.

  45. Look at Donald Rumsfeld and the FDA higher ups, who deliberately ignored warnings about aspartame. Rumsfeld strong armed them and the rest is aspartame history. They smeared cyclamates aka sweet and low to increase their market share and destroyed animals and evidence of the truth about their studies. Rumsfeld should burn in hell without dying first. He’s scum. And the FDA leaders who let this happen should be in prison for this.

  46. The Insurance commissioners can be appointed or elected depending on the state.

  47. I don’t trust any appointees in charge of my welfare any longer. Look at how bush appointed a frigging horse trader in charge of FEMA.

  48. We are PAYING these agencies to screw us. The pattern is obvious. They all end up working for the companies they are supposed to be monitoring. Or someone from the company gets put in charge of its own previous monitoring agency.

    That’s right, it’s as tangled a web as Medussa’s hair.

  49. You are welcome.

  50. NY is notorious for “Authorities”. Authorities are the antithesis of democracy. They lord over things, from recycling to water and they become tyrannical, forgetting who pays them and who the customer is. They make themselves the customer, crank up costs, drive nice cars and couldn’t give a rat’s ass about good service. They know they Own You now. You are captive to them and their attitudes roll all the way downhill. Their boards are stacked with political patronage and everything about thiem spells Ripoff Without Interest in their Employers, the taxpayers. Contracts go to friends, no bid most of the time. Authorities should be against the law.

    This is the reason that Cristie went after New Jersey authorities. They learned from NY and are cut from te same cloth.

  51. PMM, you are very lucky that you are able to record your conversations. It is not legal between a business and the insurance company. If you only knew. Everyday, I deal with these rats. People are completely unaware of what is done behind the door.

  52. No intervention from insurers who hire people to kill patients and help the profit line.

    They always seem to find a way UW. It’s gross. United Healthcare writes the codes that make the reimbursements. Make no mistake, these bastards will not let go of what they control. If I thought Barack would have to be hauled off scratching and yelling, these bastards will be far worse. ObamaCare was developed so that they could make a smooth transition to a new level of evil.

  53. mcnorman- most of the time they refuse to be recorded- so I note that on the recorder- having already noted their name, the date and time of the call- and then I politely end the conversation by telling them we will have to go the snail mail route. NONE of them want to be recorded. Though often times I will get one of those silly “This call may be monitored or recorded for quality control or training purposes” messages. Ok for THEM to record ME but not vice versa. I won’t play nice anymore.

  54. McNorman, Medicare was raided and payments cut to a pittance to reach a whole new level of evil too. All of this benefits insurance companies and their stockholder bottom line and nothing else.

    What a shame that what is supposed to be the most civilized country on earth, the most powerful country, the country with the best medical care system, is designing a system to kill people and make them feel unsafe every single day of their lives, both medically and in terms of security. It disgusts me. We are screwed whether obamacare gets trashed or not. The system is being designed to NOT help you while YOU PAY for “insurance”.

    Look what has happened to homeowners insurance. Practically nothing useful is covered any longer and the prices are jacked up. Your house has to burn down in order to collect anything at all. Imagine this now with health insurance and there you have it.

  55. If our government gave a shit about regular people, they wouldn’t be hobbling the FDA when it comes to shitbags like that guy whose eggs had to be recalled. He belongs in prison for life. He killed people. This wasn’t his first offense. Yet, he gets a slap on the hand and walks. This is bullshit. People like this belong in prison for life. All their assets should be seized to pay for the medical care and sustenence of the families of people they have killed or disabled.

    And what about these companies that get their data bases hacked, causing identity theft. The victims are on their own. They should be FORCED to fix all their victims woes for being NEGLIGENT. But nope. They get fined and the government keeps the money. Once in awhile your useless congress critter sends out a shiny pamplet on how screwed YOu are if you are a victim. The victims are screwed for life.

  56. PMM, more people should do what you do.

  57. It’s a bag of worms that most people never understand until they have to deal with it. You are right, as time goes by the insurance business doesn’t need the ObamaCrapCare label. It is what it is…evil. BCBS indemnity for life given to asses like Weiner and POTUS while we get stuck with whatever leftovers are deemed okay for a naive public.

  58. Medicare has been plundered. It is a criminal act. I don’t know about your area, but in ours the docs are dropping out like flies. That is why Ob Gyns, dentists etc now practice cash pay procedures which is a whole different nightmare. Who the heck can live off of .18 on the dollar?

  59. Excellent work! That goes for McNorman and for Lorac on the previous post.

    OT: I just saw a very moving video about the 9/11 boatlift. It is 11 minutes long and is well worth watching. It is something that wasn’t often discussed but is well captured here. I LOVE NY. This depicts the absolute heart of the citizens.

  60. karen, I might have to turn myself in…NOT.

  61. OT, Pat Robertson (man of his own preaching) says that it’s okay to divorce if Alzheimers is involved.

  62. Wow Karen. Thank you so much for that video. I am going to post it.

  63. I almost choked watching that. hahaha

  64. Pat Roberston. Taking time out between trips to Africa, stepping over the poor and dying, checking out his diamond mines, and writing off the plane trip as “supplies for the poor”—takes a moment to tell his fellow christians how to live just like he does.

  65. I’ve been thinking of stopping by attackwatch and telling them I have some Jewish neighbors. Should I report them there or just wait till the Obama Youth Corps Obama For America stops by to collect information?

  66. Read about Gov Perry’s ties to mercke, maker of Gardasil

    I really worry here about long term affects AKA HRT was the greatest thing EVAH. Until…

  67. Rick Perry on being the 3rd highest in teen pregnancy…and abstinance.

  68. mcnornan, this is a very good post, inside the thread it gets better. I always learn a lot from this place.

    Upps, I could not even imagine trying to force you to do anything. My mama didn’t raise a fool.

    I’m going to go OT for a minute. NPR did a story this morning on Dakota Meyer, this guy is something. Hell I want to have a beer with him. It should not be news that Bo had a beer with the guy. So much for their “private moment.” I hope you don’t mind if I share the link.


  69. Karen– Thank you so much for that movie. I am in tears, it was so beautiful. I loved the guy who said “everyone has a bit of hero in ’em”–Hard to believe so many good people reacting to such evil. Thanks again, Karen.

  70. Sorry if my comment broke the blog.

  71. Honora- you didn’t break it- lol.
    OT- but that attack watch twitter feed is STILL cracking me up! Here is one I know all the Uppity’s will love!

    TheWrightWingv2 JWWright
    RT #attackwatch I just parked my private jet in a handicap space, left it running & bought lemonade from little girls in yard w/o a permit!

  72. HAHAHAH Mom. They have been so OWNED on that twitter account. And they deserve every single tweet, the thugs. They think they are going to turn America into chicago and a bunch of pissants are going to start threatening people again like they did in 2008. It high time everyone pushed back strongly and early.

  73. Oh yes Uppity- they deserve every single tweet that rakes them and their boss over the coals. I am thoroughly enjoying that feed. This is as good as the bronz zoo cobra!
    How racist of me. not.

  74. I would vaccinate boys and girls. In addition to cervical cancer, the HPV virus also causes mouth cancer (both sexes) and, in men, penile cancer — that we know of.

    Gov. Perry’s mistake was limiting the vaccine to girls and letting the right say he was implying their daughters were promiscuous. Even if your daughter is a virgin (or even if you want to think so) when she marries and is lucky enough never to have been raped, her groom may have been with someone else once — and that’s enough to get the virus.

    Many vaccines are required for children and young adults attending public schools. This is just one more.


  75. The Right has its head up its ass most of the time, anyways. They pretend their kids are never going to do what every other kid is doing. Seriously, get your heads out of your asses. Just like those ‘submissive wives” who have learned the art of surrepticiousness in their daily lives.

    I ofen wonder how many of those far right senators paid for abortions for their mistresses. And maybe even their daughters.

  76. DJMM It’s a choice that should not have been mandated without opt in or out.

  77. I agree, there is no difference between boys and girls. Both deserve protection.

  78. Aw gawd. Have you seen that Pioneer Woman is on Food channel now? I’m like listening to my arteries harden because I want to cook everything she does. Her cooking site was tough enough on me, but now she’s on the air to torture me.

    Here’s episode 1. Part 1

    Wow. Nice pad that city girl scored when she fell for that cowboy! I read her story long before she put it in a book for sale. It was on her site. It was a beautiful story of how she and the cowboy met when she was back home for chilling after work in NY City and breaking up with a boyfriend. It’s truly a great read. She’s a very good writer.

  79. Okay, those potatoes are heart bypass time. They sound delicious, but I don’t think I could eat just 1/4 of a teaspoon.

  80. Hey, that’s my neighbor UW.

  81. Hahah you aren’t kidding about those potatoes. Holy chit!

  82. Of course I’m kidding.

  83. I want some now.

    Is she in Texas? You know who she is????

  84. She gets something like a million hits a month or something.

    Seen her dog and cat?

  85. So do I. I know some cowboys that work like that. I can tell you that one of our friends has a humongous ranch in south Texas. She cooks just like that. The ranch is a hunting ranch. It is never empty, and they always return the following year.

  86. No UW, I’m yanking your pioneer chain.

  87. To be honest, there are a lot of “pioneer women” in Texas. We have so much space in the rural areas that you get very good at cooking.

  88. I love that kitchen.

  89. She’s in Oklahoma with the Marlboro Man.

  90. If she’s preparing a 5lb bag of potatoes for dinner, she ought to have a walk in sub zero fridge.

  91. Uhm, she will be able to afford a larger pad soon. Reese Witherspoon is playing Pioneer Woman in a movie about her life.

  92. ROFL- five pounds of potatoes? Dad used to make that much potato salad for family gatherings. Never any leftovers.
    It is so damn cold here today I made beef stew for dinner- which is about ready- just gotta mix up the biscuits and put them in the oven. Winter food on September 15th!
    AL! CALLING AL GORE! I am reporting him to attackwatch!

  93. That would have had to be SOME guy to get me to give up NY City for Oklahoma.

  94. Good lord I am watching animal planet and Florida has turned into a dangerous wildlife preserve. Massive snakes, gators, wierd mean lizards, it’s just downright frightening.

  95. I’ve met a few cowboys that left me in goosebumps for days. They aren’t big talkers, but they are as polite as you can imagine. The Marlboro Man is a good description for her spouse.

  96. PMM turn Al in. I heard that the Chama, NM got snow. We get a whopping 1 month of winter here.

  97. Did everyone hear? Jimmy Carter gave Romney the thumbs up as the nominee. Surely, that is the kiss of death, yes?

  98. Obama sticker helps cops catch a murderer.

    Parole officer Kevin Devlin noticed the sticker on suspect Edward Corliss’ white Plymouth Acclaim during a 2009 meeting. At the time, Corliss was on parole after serving part of a life sentence for a 1971 murder, according to MyFoxBoston.

    Yup. theres an Obama supporter for you.
    And of course, life doesn’t mean life. You get out. You murder again. This shitbag is accused of murdering a 39 year old woman/man i can’t tell by the name.

  99. He did garner the prison and dead vote afterall.

  100. Yes, Acorn was VERY busy in prisons.

  101. If I were Romney I would publicly say to Carter, NO THANKS.

    That’s sleazebag stuff, Jimmy.

  102. Hey did you guys see the viral Webcam 101 for seniors? THese two were trying to figure out how to use the cam and didn’t realize they were recording. Now it’s on youtube.

  103. Drop your dress a little bit. ROFL.

  104. I wonder what their kids are thinking about that comment? LOL They are adorable.

  105. I thought PMM would get a kick out of this since she’s keeping tabs on the funnies.

  106. Oy if the Rightos use that hitler scene one more time…

  107. UW, my mama cat took her kittens and hid them elsewhere. I think in the neighbor’s shed next door. I don’t want to capture them until I can actually have time to take care of them. She is very feral, poor girl. My feral cat was minding her own business this morning and the mother cat came over to attack her. What gives?

  108. My guess, territory, especially with kittens. She also might be claiming your area. If you only have one cat out there it’s not going to be good. If there are more than one, they will probably straighten her out. I’d leave her kittens be for now and wait till she weans them to rescue them. Provide her with food. If she knows there will always be food she might be kinder to the other cat. A nursing mom cat knows she needs lots of food and water.

  109. I have left her food. My two feral sisters are terrified of her. She is trying to take over the yard imo. She will be fine next door, but my ferals are very sweet and I can’t find one of them. There is another storm coming, so she ran as soon as the dust started flying.

  110. She took off, but I left a full can under the car which is far enough away from my feral. I think the sister is next door on the other side. They are very sweet, but they won’t let anyone touch them. I can get right next to them and sit, but that is it. They know their condo is safe. I’m hoping that if it really rains, they will both stay in their condos.

  111. Good news on the cat that I was catwatching for my neighbor. Her mistress finally came home. She is now being forced into staying indoors. I explained to the mistress how horrible it was to watch her suffer being outside all winter. Especially when it fell 20 below zero.

  112. Ferals are very resourceful M, so I wouldn’t worry. Especially if they have food and water regularly. I know about them not letting you touch them, if they let you get that close, one day they will let you pet them. It’s then the taming process can begin and you can get them fixed. After that the rest gets easier and they can be placed or they can be Yours.

  113. I have had the sisters for several years now. They came as older kittens, possibly 5 months? They know everything that is here is home and that is why I don’t want the mother cat to displace them. Normally during storms, my ferals are neatly tucked inside their condos, but not last night or tonight.

  114. Hey, hope this works…. o/t but really cute…. 🙂 😉 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWIPZvwcnX8

  115. LOL love the one with the ears.

  116. I have a Simon cat, his name is Freddy. To the Tee Casper Cat.

  117. Okay, this is real rain. The kind that you have been getting UW. I can’t see 12′ in front of my eyes.

  118. Hell if you are getting what I saw and it’s coming at you, you will wish for 12′. Take cover. Hope your roof is sound. You just have to ride it out and don’t look.

  119. We are catching a break right now. But another huge pink/red cell is on its way. It’s moving pretty fast too.

  120. Oh yeah, the roof is next year’s big project. It’s over 15 years old.

  121. OMG that’s my cat! He once bit thru the adaptor cord and I had to pay 79 bucks for another one.

  122. Uppity… 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 ok, well not 79 bucks funny…. But, funnny !!!!! 😯 😉 🙂 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  123. I wasn’t laughing then though. I chased his ass all over the house. Then I cornered him and he said RRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTT! and his eyes were like saucers. Damn cat got away with it.

  124. Time to check the back patio where the roof does leak. Thank you UW for letting me vent on the Gardasil. Night to all.

  125. Get the buckets!

  126. 15 year old roof? You didn’t get one of those guaranteed for 30 roofs?

  127. mcnorman – great post!

  128. Good thoughtful piece, mcnorman.

  129. That’d be justice since we’ve been depressed for 3 years b/c of him:

  130. http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/15/perry-takes-lead-in-florida-after-monday-debate/
    Perry still leading. Note his lead among the 18-29 age group. His generational war tactic may be working. It’s a mistake to underestimate him.

  131. The 18-29 year olds are amazingly awful people. They have been bleeding their parents dry, making sure they are broke when they retire. At the same time they demand that all people retire ASAP and give them their jobs. These are the same pissants who, after bloodsucking their parents dry, want to take their social security away from them. There is something cold and missing inside this generation and it’s not pretty. They are perfect little 1984 subjects. This is not funny and I am damned glad I don’t have one of them under my roof. The only amusing part is they are screwing themselves because they think they will never get old and need to retire. They will all work for The Man till they die, and die young. Anyways, none of this surprises me among REPUBLICAN 18-29 year olds. Most of them are of the Paul mentality. Now onto perry. He leads in all demographics EXCEPT seniors. In Florida, Seniors R US. I want to see some pollster stop being a coward and purely poll seniors in this country. Why are they not doing it? Care to take a shot in the dark? Like I said. It’s a long road to 2012. Perry suffers from loose lips. My prediction stands. As for Romney, he needs to reverse his personality bypass.

  132. The depression thing is just some more Bush deja vu. That rumor was out there about him too, along with various other mental illness discussions. Barack Obama is not depressed. He’s pissed that you peons don’t worship him like you should, and he is going to wag his finger at you for it. He’s pissed that being President in the USA is not like being King. You have to work to keep the job. This is something he has missed along the way while he spent the majority of his time in elected office trolling for his next higher office. I’m sure Barack has already planned his October surprise because it’s his only hope. Remember, that movie about Bin Laden is Coincidentally scheduled for then. My my my. The truth is, people are sick of his yammering, lecturing, finger pointing and petulant behavior. I hope they swift boat his ass to the next planet because nobody deserves it more. The public is already swiftboating him and he has his fingers in his ears, humming. I am sure he is surrounded by some major sycophants stroking him day and night, but the publlic isn’t going to help them to do that. They want less bullshit and more results. And his speeches no longer mean anything to anybody. He moves his lips, he is either lying or attacking someone. More and more we will see contained audiences to stroke his ego and convince him I Am Loved And Worshipped. It’s not going to mean squat in the Real World where he does not live. this is becoming pathetic.

    By the way, if you read gawker, do NOT sign up as a member to post there. Their data base was hijacked early this year and all of the passwords, usernames and their email addresses were stolen. I was one of them. If they can hack that data base, they are probably smart enough to hack your email account too, and I’m sure most of you consider using the same password. Hackers know that and count on it.

  133. Narcissists are also masters at being the victim. He’s used to pouting his lip and having everyone around him rush to make him feel better. As you said, he’s not really “depressed”, he’s angry. I still keep waiting for the meltdown that is sure to happen. He will lash out, if he hasn’t already.

  134. lol on the passwords Uppity! Mine are all handwritten on TWO sheets of paper- front and back. What a flaming pain in the A#%! But it would be more of a pain in the ass to get hacked!
    My fav password is N0F*&#1n0b@ma!

  135. We did okay UW. The winds blew in just the right direction so we didn’t get a lake in the patio. It’s a pain because it’s enclosed.

  136. No UW, that didn’t happen when I placed the roof on the house. It’s actually 18 years old. We sit in a valley where the winds come in much stronger at the base of the mountain.

  137. Thank you NES and lorac.

  138. I’m going to have to use that one PMM. I hate the insurers with equal passion.

  139. Generally, I don’t read Gawker, Upps – I just followed that linked article from another site. Good to know the hacking tip though.

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