A Must-Read: Whatever Blog: “A doctor speaks out on Transvaginal Ultrasounds”.

Please go over to Whatever, and read the guest entry entitled, “Where is the physician outrage?”.

It is written by a doctor who actually cares enough about women to protect them from the invasive and involuntary transvaginal ultrasound that seems to be popular among power-abusing, women-controlling, vagina-obsessed theocratic legislators within various women-hating state legislative bodies.

These are the same lawmakers that will be cheering on the petition to the Supreme Court, which complains that the Affordable Care Act forces Americans to buy a product they do not want. And that product doesn’t even force people to allow someone to invade their vagina with a probe.  These are the same lawmakers who are perpetually screaming that they want government out of their lives, but not ours. Of course, these crackpots see absolutely no irony here at all, I’m sure – especially since women aren’t actually people to them to begin with.

The post is a must-read.

I’m speaking, of course, about the required-transvaginal-ultrasound thing that seems to be the flavor-of-the-month in politics.

I do not care what your personal politics are. I think we can all agree that my right to swing my fist ends where your face begins.

I do not feel that it is reactionary or even inaccurate to describe an unwanted, non-indicated transvaginal ultrasound as “rape”. If I insert ANY object into ANY orifice without informed consent, it is rape. And coercion of any kind negates consent, informed or otherwise.

In all of the discussion and all of the outrage and all of the Doonesbury comics, I find it interesting that we physicians are relatively silent.

After all, it’s our hands that will supposedly be used to insert medical equipment (tools of HEALING, for the sake of all that is good and holy) into the vaginas of coerced women.

The doctor goes on to provide alternative suggestions to other physicians regarding this outrageous law that forces women against their will to undergo an invasive vaginal probe. Read the rest here. And don’t forget to leave a message of Thanks to the blogger and your kind of doctor in the comment section.

Thank you, Whatever blog.

126 Responses

  1. French ‘gunman’ jumps to death after officers storm apartment

    Better off dead.

  2. I wonder how many doctors aren’t speaking up because they have no intention of obeying the law anyway?

  3. myiq, my newphew is a doctor and he said exactly the same thing you just said. They just won’t obey. The women will find the right doctors. Word of mouth spreads and any religious zealotry in medical clinics will just result in less business.

  4. Oh good! The POS saved them all that trial money and all the publicity he would have gotten. I knew this wasn’t going to end well for him when they stopped negotiating. Now they can’t say they killed the poor innocent jihadist.

  5. If that’s a “radical form of Islam” then just about the whole Middle East is a radical form of Islam.

  6. The better news is the cops were weighting him down with lead as he went out the window.

  7. Word of mouth spreads and any religious zealotry in medical clinics will just result in less business.

    I doubt you’ll find any religious zealots performing abortions anyway. All the doctors that will perform them are pretty solidly in the pro-choice camp.

  8. I knew this wasn’t going to end well for him when they stopped negotiating.

    I hope he lay there for a while, still conscious as he bled out.

  9. No doctor with common sense is going to risk getting sued just to comply with this dumb law.

    For the record, dr’s rarely do the U/S – the U/S tech does it.

    Otoh, I am wondering if that dr is an ob/gyn – they don’t mention it. She/he writes like a typical memeber of Scalzi’s science fiction geek clique and not like someone who actually practices reproductive health.
    I used to read a lot of the blogs in Scalzi’s clique (because I’m an sff reader) until 2008 when I realized that they had all turned into obot cheer squads who love to pummel Hillary.
    To hell with Scalzi and his obot fans.
    http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/05/07/its-over-hillary-let-it-go/

  10. This is the first time I ever heard of that website. I didn’t even know they were SF. I just read the post and nothing much else. Still, it’s a good post. Wish I had a thousand for every website that pretends to be our friend and has an archive of hillary bashing. I’m on some of their blogrolls too. One of these days, I am going to sweep through and demand they remove me.

  11. That law is never going to get by the SUPREMES when challenged. Even that Mussolini afficionado, Scalia will have no choice. It’s an invasion of privacy AND body, period. It will be a great test of just HOW political the Supreme court has gotten, constitution be damned.

    If the supremes strike down the health care thing, it’s a given it must be struck, because it also falls under the commerce clause. Forcing someone to buy something they don’t want.

  12. Speaking of whacky things going on in schools

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/22/va-middle-schoolers-assigned-to-do-oppo-research-on-gop-candidates/

    (sorry for the DC link)

  13. John Edwards is First Name Uncovered in ‘Millionaire Madam’ Investigation

    A call girl working for alleged “Millionaire Madam” Anna Gristina told investigators she was paid to have sex with former U.S. Sen. John Edwards when he was in New York raising money for his failed presidential bid, DNAinfo has learned.

    Edwards is the first big name to surface in connection to Gristina’s alleged prostitution scheme run out of an Upper East Side apartment.

    His lawyers were contacted by DNAinfo, but did not comment.

    According to “On The Inside” sources, Edwards allegedly hooked up with one of Gristina’s high-end hookers in 2007 when the dashing pol from North Carolina brought his then high-flying presidential campaign to the Big Apple.

    The one-night fling allegedly took place at an Upper East Side hotel suite and was arranged by an aide with help from a New Yorker familiar with Gristina’s prostitution ring, sources said.

  14. Good morning (((UPPITY’S)))

    LORAC: meant to tell you: Kick @&& post yesterday

  15. After reading “Where Is The Physician Outrage?, my first thought was that he/she should have given his/her qualifications. To me there was a lot of “courage of the non-combatant” in that post. Abortion services have been under assault for decades so that now, in many states, just getting access to a clinic/doctor for an abortion is a problem. What good is it for the now rare abortion provider to go against a state law and be fined or shut down by the state health dept?

  16. If I was an “abortion doctor” I would keep a low profile. Look what happened to Tiller.

  17. SHV, what would you recommend to these doctors. What if a woman flat out refuses to have the ultrasound?

  18. These are the same lawmakers that will be cheering on the petition to the Supreme Court, which complains that the Affordable Care Act forces Americans to buy a product they do not want.

    Uppity, good point about the inconsistency. On both sides, btw.
    Unconstitutional laws are bad for the country, regardless of which favored agenda they may be push.

  19. Going over to read it now. I have been making some headway with the younger generation, male and female, on the whole pro choice anti choice debate. To me it is simple and always has been. Forcing a woman to use her body in any way to which she does not consent is slavery, pure and simple. It ticks some people off, but tough. To me, forced pregnancy is EXACTLY the same as any other kind of forced labor.
    And wordpress is annoying the hell otu of me- can’t comment anymore unless I log in to wordpress. grrr.

  20. “What if a woman flat out refuses to have the ultrasound?”
    ***********
    From a medical perspective, the meme that transvaginal ultrasounds are “unnecessary” is not helpful. When the Va “law” was the hot topic, I did a brief survey of some abortion clinics in “red”and “blue” states and it appears that pre-abortion ultrasound is routine and for non-surgical abortion (pills) a post abortion ultrasound is mandatory.

    Now to the question of if a woman refuses an ultrasound, I can only speculate. If she is “early” enough and could qualify for “medical” abortion but refused ultrasound then she has refused the abortion. More than 50 days by dates and positive preg. test, and consistent physical exam then probable candidate for surgical abortion without ultrasound. (That was the situation in my day, and occasionally there were problems)

    In today’s medical/legal liability climate, I don’t know how many abortion providers are willing to do abortions without ultrasound.

    (now back to drywalling)

  21. SHV, so basically, you are saying the ultrasound is SOP for abortions, then?

    Cripes, that drywall should have been primed by now.

  22. Waving to Mom!

    Complaints all over the place that WP comments on blogs have gone down thanks to their Google-behavior similar to blogspot.

  23. I miss Revolutionary War Vet. I hope he’s okay. If you’re lurking, man, just say Hi.

  24. SHV- interesting. The last contact I had with an abortion clinic was back in the early 1990’s.(I helped a few friends run the gauntlet – though I was fortunate enough to have an ob/gyn who did his own work) No ultrasound involved. Pregnancy test, health history, simple. Very much the equivalent of a D&C.
    In my Mom’s day, women who needed to terminate a pregnancy did it. Whether the law allowed it or not. The dirty little secret- how many of those D&C’s were really for “excessive bleeding?” From talking with the women of that generation I would hazard a guess that a good percentage were terminations.
    One of the first things I did on moving to PA was to find an ob/gyn that was pro-choice. No matter what. My daughter was very young then, but I wanted to be absolutely positive that if she ever needed help, it would be available without resorting to a clinic and the loons that congregate outside of them. The man was wonderful and completely open and honest. His Mom had suffered some terrible complications of too many pregnancies and a botched abortion after 10 children. It took some hunting, but I found him. No way was anyone going to force my daughter into anything if I had any say about it. Fortunately she has never needed that particular procedure, but it is a relief to know he is there if we need him.

  25. hello. fellow Uppityites.10 days now of record breaking highs. :roll;

  26. foxy- lol- the peepers have been singing for over a week now. Local folklore says if they sing three nights in a row there will be no more hard freezes- SOOOO
    I planted spinach peas and carrots in the new raised bed! Everything else is still too wet- but the raised bed is fine, the soil is moist but not soaked, and warm. We shall see. I have some old windows I can cover it with if we do get a cold spell. Or should I say when we get a cold spell?

  27. “SHV, so basically, you are saying the ultrasound is SOP for abortions, then?

    Cripes, that drywall should have been primed by now.”
    *********
    New room, more fun demolition, new lighting/ electrical and now ceiling reconstruction cabinet refinishing painting, etc.

    Best that I can tell, ultrasound is SOP. Without doing a lot more research, I would guess that the vast majority are done trans-vaginally.

    The bottom line is that the anti-abortion fundies are in for the long fight and they are winning. I don’t see any of the pro-choice groups doing much to stop the trend other than wave the flag in
    order to raise money.
    For example, I wasn’t able to find any legal analysis of the impact of the Virginia abortion law on abortion clinics. All the hoo-haa was untrasound, which is done anyway and the bill was modified in such a way that it didn’t affect the impact on abortion providers. (Pure speculation on my part but demonizing vaginal ultrasound may in fact increase cost and hassle factor for the patient and providers) The pro-choice groups declared victory, asked for more money and the providers are stuck with the additional costs of documentation and overhead.

    I don’t know if the revised bill passed in Va, but in the original bill, there was a $2500 civil fine for each failure to document and maintain the records of fetal age and all of the other crap that was in the law. So back to my earlier statement about “courage of the non-combatant” if the law is passed, how does failure to comply help a woman’s access to abortion in Va? Maybe I’m just in a bad, cynical mood today, but that “doctors” rant reminds me more of OWS/ Obot mentality rather than reasoned thought about how to maintain the right to choose.

  28. The ultrasound is SOP–but NOT the transvaginal one. The usual one where they goop up your tummy and roll it over your abdomen, not this 10-inch prong. That’s just sick and unnecessary.

    Garry Trudeau was right on the money. It IS ‘rape’.

  29. I never realized how truly fortunate I am (was) what the hell is up with this having to have an ultrasound bs? A pregnancy test is no longer good enough? Cheese and Rice!
    Let’s see, I had my first child and there was no such thing as an ultrasound. 7 yrs later when pregnant with number 2, they had been invented but were very expensive and used only for very high risk cases. 7 yrs after that, daughter came along and I had ONE ultrasound as I went into premature labor and they wanted to get a better read on exactly how along I was. All my kids were born healthy and sound, thanks be. Even the ones born before the invention of ultrasound.
    Fast forward to today and the damn things are done four or five times in every pregnancy.
    WHY?
    Pregnancy is not a disease. If all else is normal why run all these tests? It just drives up the cost.

  30. Letiginous society PMM.

    OT Who has not slept with John Edwards?
    All this was going on while he was with the mistress.

    I imagine that there are all types of scenarios that could make for a huge settlement.

  31. I’m thinking ectopic pregnancy and stuff like that.

  32. In my Mom’s day, women who needed to terminate a pregnancy did it. Whether the law allowed it or not. The dirty little secret- how many of those D&C’s were really for “excessive bleeding?” From talking with the women of that generation I would hazard a guess that a good percentage were terminations.

    My mom had 2 d&c’s which accounted for the big gap in ages between the 2 older kids & the 2 younger kids. They were abortions, though this was in a country where abortion was illegal. We younger kids would not be around if her dr had not suggested that maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to continue the pregnancy (married, stable , etc).
    Probably part of why I am personally pro-life though politically pro-choice.

  33. Reblogged this on theconservativehillbilly and commented:
    This is just another reason, IMHO, that the feds should not be involved in health care or health insurance.

  34. In my Mom’s day, women who needed to terminate a pregnancy did it. Whether the law allowed it or not

    Yeah and some of the results were pretty awful too, if you include home made remedies that didn’t work, except to birth a child who had a variety of dysfunctions. I personally know of two people were were the results of home made abortion attempts in the Good Ole Days. One of them is in her 80s now and has been institutionalized for decades.

  35. Hell they did D and C’s during tubal ligations too so the insurance wouldn’t squawk. I should know. I did it.

  36. Re: that cockroach John Edwards, who is lower than whale shit: I do hope any women who slept with this scheeve gets checked for STDs of all kinds.

  37. Mom, I think they run so many tests during pregnancies now to avoid malpractice suits. Seriously.

  38. JE is a real piece of work. Wonder what Reille thinks of her baby daddy now?

  39. SHV, beg to differ with you that women aren’t throwing wrenches in their anti abortion efforts. A good case IS Virginia. That governer got the crap scared out of him when a thousand women with torches and pitchforks showed up at the Capitol. He forced the changes in the law because of that. Otherwise, if the women snoozed, it would have become the probe law. I think women have been wide awake ever since Komen and they are loaded for bear…WITHOUT the ‘women’s groups’ Which are essentially toothless and useless gas bags looking for donations, as you said. WOmen don’t NEED them any longer. They use social media to do it all themselves and they are being successful While nobody has criticized the third wave fake feminists more than I have, Komen changed something in a most profound way.

  40. Women stopped Komen without any of those gasbag ‘women’s organizations’. Women did Rush without those organizations. Women did Virginia without them. Women will do it all without them, because they know how to use twitter and facebook, and now that they have mastered this, there is no stopping them. They can bring someone to his knees and they will. I will be doing a post tomorrow on Reebok and their degrading commercials that got pulled because of social media. I do believe the landscape is changing rapidly. It used to be just some pissant petitions nobody knew was there. Or 20 petitions competing to do the same thing. Women weren’t networked. Twitter has changed that in a HUGE way. Hashtag it baby! They have finally learned that you don’t “ASK” for your rights. You TAKE them.

  41. Hahah Mom. A friend brought some winter coats to the dry cleaners and when she picked them up the guy said, Now your coats are all ready for the next freeze. lolol.

  42. Hey there was six years between my bother and me. So I asked my mother if I was, like, maybe an accident? She said hell No. Why do you think that? I said well, because of the six years. She said, if you had a kid as bad as your brother was, you would have waited six years too!

  43. “A good case IS Virginia. That governer got the crap scared out of him when a thousand women with torches and pitchforks showed up at the Capitol. He forced the changes in the law because of that. Otherwise, if the women snoozed, it would have become the probe law. ”
    ********
    I need to educate myself more on current state of the art and the arcania of anti-abortion law but when I read the law, it was the requirements for “education, informed consent” and the need for documentation that added cost and hassle. All of that plus the need to document gestational age is still in the bill/law.

    I agree that the only way to slow down/stop the assault on abortion access is for women/people to hit the streets and scare the politicians. However, if the action mis-identifies the threat or isn’t sustained, then the fundies win again.

  44. Yeah well like I always say, SHV, it’s nothing that 50,000 marching women with torches and pitchforks can’t fix. But that’s now how this generation rolls. Someone might break a fingernail or drop a cell phone!

  45. Agree on the home remedy/back alley jobs Uppity. Unfortunately, we are on the way back to the bad old days- when women like my Mom had to find a sympathetic doctor or risk their lives.
    The fundies need to understand that abortion has been around almost as long as pregnancy. NOTHING is going to put a stop to it. So it is either legal and safe- or illegal and dangerous. A woman who does not want to carry to term will find a way- and it is her business and hers alone.
    I am deadly serious about forced pregnancy being akin to slavery. We can not force people to work the fields or the factories- but the fundies want to be able to force women to be brood mares?

  46. “But that’s now how this generation rolls.
    ********
    It’s the faux outrage by politicians, “progressives” and women’s advocates that prefaces the request for donations that pisses me off. The yahoo rethug-fundie “law-makers” may be morons but they are getting good legal advice in crafting the laws that erodes access. I don’t see anything equivalent on “our” side. NARAL, NOW, etc are fucking jokes.

  47. Lola has a great post today about women being forced to quit politics over at the crawdad hole

  48. “when women like my Mom had to find a sympathetic doctor or risk their lives.”
    ******
    That reminded me of my mother. About ten years ago, I was visiting and we were watching some rethug gas-bag on CNN talk about limiting abortion. My mother was 86 at that time and I don’t recall ever seeing her that angry.

    I was a bit surprised at her reaction until a few weeks later when I tried to visualize what it must have been like for a young married couple, with one child, trying to survive in the mid-1930s. With unreliable contraception and the possible birth of a second child likely tipping the family into abject poverty, the stresses on the marriage must have been horrendous. I am nine years younger than my sister.

  49. So it is either legal and safe- or illegal and dangerous.

    So true.

  50. Uppity,

    Hi!

    Yep. Still here! Just lurking daily through the posts and comments here with varying degrees of laughter, outrage, indignation, joy, wonder, anger, awe, and pride.

    I warned you that I am the WORST kind of houseguest: Once I’m invited to the party, I never leave!
    😉

  51. Rev Vet111!!!! I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad to see you!!!!!! I didn’t mean to break your reverie, but you know me, I’ve got a bit of the Aunt Uppity in me.

  52. Ok I need some help here, because this is a topic about which I can write what I know on the back of a postage stamp…and still be able to lick it without getting any ink on my tongue.

    Drilling. My question is, if we drill anywhere, or everywhere or whatever…….does the USA benefit from the oil or does it become the full property of the oil company who can in turn sell it anywhere they want to? And if it doesn’t directly help the need of the USA, then can someone explain to me how this would help the price of our own gasoline, or won’t it help at all?

  53. McNorman, whatever Reille thinks of her baby daddy, she’s no better in my eyes than the hookers he paid. He paid her too. Besides, remember this? I think they are PERFECT for each other.
    Oh, she’s really classy. Oh Yeah.
    https://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/contratulations-john-edwards-youve-got-a-real-live-one-you-shitbag/

    Does he really think this self-loving adulteress is going to wheel him around when he’s really old, which is going to be a lot sooner than he thinks.

  54. Hey Rev Vet!!! Just remember…I’m dying to have you write for the blog.

  55. Ok, quiz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    A company called Ohio Art’s stock went up 200% today. WHy did that happen? No cheating!

    First correct answer gets a week with Oswald. Losers get two weeks with Oswald.

  56. Drilling. My question is, if we drill anywhere, or everywhere or whatever…….does the USA benefit from the oil or does it become the full property of the oil company who can in turn sell it anywhere they want to? And if it doesn’t directly help the need of the USA, then can someone explain to me how this would help the price of our own gasoline, or won’t it help at all?

    Great question. I’m going to ask on twitter. Nobody there would lie to me.😉

  57. Nobody there would lie to me.

    LOLOL.

  58. 4th amendment violation, unreasonable search and seizure and persons have the right to be secure in their persons, oh, except, I am not a person, I am a woman.

    Has anyone done any studies to see if these invasive procedures trigger the very condition that they are attempting to cure? There is something a little bit, well. a lot sick about this type of voyerism.

  59. Completely OT- but whoever the idiots were on the PA Game Commission who decided to introduce the frigging invasive wild rose bushes deserves to go straight to hell and land face down, naked, on a pile of the damn things.

  60. “Drilling. My question is, if we drill anywhere, or everywhere or whatever…….does the USA benefit from the oil or does it become the full property of the oil company who can in turn sell it anywhere they want to?
    *********
    I think that domestically produced crude is for USA only but I suspect that their are huge loop holes. Millions of gallon of Diesel and gasoline are exported from Gulf coast refineries. That is also the fraud behind the Keystone pipeline. I got curious about what was going on when an amendment was offered that said that crude oil sent to US refineries from Canada through the Keystone pipe line had to be used in the US. The Republicans and the oil industry opposed it.

    It seems that the problem with the Canadian oil produced from the oil sands of western Canada is that there is no easy way to export it, except to the US. There is currently a glut of oil in the upper mid-west due to a bottle neck at Cushing OK. Therefore Canada is discounting oil prices and the mid-West farmers, especially are benefiting from cheaper diesel. The solution is the Keystone pipeline. This will allow the oil companies to send Canadian oil directly to US Gulf coast refineries and then shipped to the highest priced over seas markets. This is potentially worth trillions of dollars to the oil companies and the Canadian Govt. Who get screwed? the US consumer, especially the mid West farmers who produce a shit load of the food that we eat.

  61. Oh, I believe the toads deserve each other in every way possible. I can’t imagine that she is pure as the driven snow either. Karma, it will get them both.

  62. Heck, Reille just may spill really super hot beans now.

  63. Did you ever stop to think that this type of procedure can actually save lives? Besides showing the fetus, it can also show what else is in the womb as well. It showed that I had uterine cancer while it was operable. Perhaps if Barack Obama’s mother had had this done it would have saved her life! Are you actually saying that you would not have this test because it is invasive? How invasive do you think an abortion is? They use a similar process! If you are going to have an abortion done anyway, are you really and truly going to complain about having an additional test that might save your life if something else is wrong? I would think that the science behind this procedure would make a little difference. After all, even a blood test is invasive. Personally, it is no worse than that for me, I hate needles.

  64. Etch-A-Sketch.

  65. Good post at John Smart’s.

  66. Well Loopy, when a govenment has to TELL a women what procedures she MUST have (because they so CARE about her health, oh yeah), it does indeed conjure up the obvious fact that women are just too frigging stupid to make their own decisions about their health care. Nice try Loopy, but no cigar. My uterus, and whether or not I have an ultrasound is none of your g’damned business and surely none of a government’s business. To even slightly assume that this is a Greeeeeeeeat idea just made for a woman’s happiness is simply ludicrous. Only a fool would buy that this is anything else than a bunch of dickheads forcing their personal beliefs on somebody who wants to perform a legal procedure they don’t like. Therefore they are doing this for no other reason than to make that perfectly legal procedure just as difficult as possible. In fact every single law that these abject idiots have produced in the past several months is nothing short of theocratic bullshit. I thought we were fighting that kind of crap over in the Middle East, and here we are with a bunch of fundie nutcases, filled in with a bunch of other guys who want to control women, trying to do the same thing, bit by bit, we are fighting against over there. Oh I know, I know. They don’t kill us here. But you know what, Loopy? If they could, they would. And if they could, they would regress and tie a brick on our foot, throw us in the river and see who floats. You are welcome to be controlled by the patriarchy all you want Loony. The rest of us aren’t going quietly into their night. We did not fall off the back of a moving truck. And that’s that.

  67. Ding Ding Ding! imust wins the prize!

    That’s right. Etch A Sketch makers’ stock rose 200% today.

  68. So, SHV, basically, if we drill, we do nothing for our own energy needs but help out the highest bidder (think, China), while we take the spill risk. Super. I never understood that process. We give them permission to take our underground crude. They get to keep it and sell it to somebody else. Then we buy our oil from a bunch of goatfuckers at whatever prices that moves them. Seems like something is missing in this equation.

  69. You know I feel the same way! I don’t think that the government should be in the business of health care either. Insurance companies require all kinds of tests before medical procedures, many of them are invasive, but they do it to protect themselves and to make sure that the patient is not at increased risk. Since we agree that government should say out of healthcare, do you think then that insurance companies should not require invasive tests either? What if at sometime in the future, some woman finds that she had cancer and it could have been found with this test?

  70. As far as the government telling women, or men for that matter, what kind of procedures they must have, do you really think that they don’t do it already for any number of conditions?

  71. Loopy: Thanks for giving folks a heads-up about what sites not to visit. I really appreciate help like this.

    http://loopyloo305.com/do-not-link-to-these-sites/

  72. Poor kitteh: 😯

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/03/21/cat-survives-19-story-fall-from-boston-apartment-building/

  73. Loopy I don’t think insurance companies should require anything. I think that’s supposed to be between a doctor and his patient. I don’t think an insurance company should be so beholding to stockholders that they let people die and require the approval of a paid shill to tell you whether or not you can have a procedure your doctor wants you to have. I don’t think life and death should be tied to a NY Stock enchange company’s bottom line. As for your What If. My grandmother used to say if the chicken didn’t stop in the road he wouldn’t have gotten run over by the truck. The truth is, loopy, your rationalization is not even related to the reality of this law, which is to force women into an inconvenient and costly procedure she may not want, in order to humiliate her and slow her decision down. About the only good thing about this law is that it’s not the other law that was introduced whereby killing an abortion doctor or the patient can be considered Justifiable homicide. This is crazy shit Loopy, it’s downright theocratic terrorism, and just a huge reminder of why I left a certain church. I’m a firm believer that everybody has the right to worship as they please, without fear, and that they also do not have the right to force anybody else to abide by their beliefs, nor to they have the right to trump our laws with their beliefs. I kind of figure if you want to have an abortion, that’s between you and your god, if you have one, and that it’s not between you and me, since I am not God and your body is none of my business. I do find it all amusing in between realizing how pathetic it all is. For a bunch of people who keep yelling they want the government out of their lives, they sure have a way for sticking their noses in everybody else’s lives. For a bunch of people who are going to the Supreme court to delcare that health care travesty illegal based on a commerce clause that says you can’t force people to buy what they don’t want, they sure think it’s just fine to force a person with a vagina to have a mandated procedure she doesn’t want. The hypocrisy is just oozing out all over, Loony.

  74. Chairman of Susan Komen resigns.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74383.html

  75. ACK Mom! Wild roses are pain! They are downright invasive.

  76. I just wrote a check to the US Treasury. I don’t think us broads who are not covered by the Constitution should have to pay taxes any longer since we have no representation.

  77. Fredster, what few people know is that Komen didn’t just try to cut off PP. They succeeded in cutting off some serious cancer research hospitals that also do stem cell research, including Johns Hopkins. If you ask me, they should all resign and clean house. There is something seriously sinister about a bunch of people who are supposed to be working on the avoidance and cure of breast cancer cutting off cancer research and studies because of religious beliefs about things that have nothing whatsoever to do with breast cancer screening, prevention and treatment. A pox on their entire house.

  78. Actually the Komen thing had some very good residual effects on American women. They woke up. And they seem to be staying awake too. Overplaying your hand tends to have that effect.

  79. Concern troll is very concerned.

  80. Some trip for kitteh. FCS.

  81. They woke up. And they seem to be staying awake too. Overplaying your hand tends to have that effect.

    That’s why I wanted to put the link here. The women aren’t forgetting.

  82. Right Fredster, and some very good men aren’t forgetting either. And that is why we love you.

  83. well Loopy, I have been insured all of my life and far as I know, no government ever told me to have any procedure of any kind. Insurers sure have though. But mostly they try to tell me to have a cheaper procedure I don’t need instead of the one I do need. Gotta keep those stockholders happy! I am well old enough to remember when health insurance was not for profit, and pretty cheap besides. You went to the doctor, you did what the doctor said you should do and then the insurer paid. no muss no fuss. Funny thing, most everybody was covered too. You paid your 15% and it was also very affordable. How about that. No sense of doing that again, hey?

  84. UW: I’m lovin’ your responses to Loopy (an apt name, if you ask me).

  85. Yeah Sophie, but the baseball bat is still under the seat.

  86. Damn I always screw up the code for posting images.

    Click.

  87. Right Fredster, and some very good men aren’t forgetting either. And that is why we love you.

    It says this is the code for oops, but I’ll say it’s for a blushing 😳

  88. You went to the doctor, you did what the doctor said you should do and then the insurer paid. no muss no fuss. Funny thing, most everybody was covered too. You paid your 15% and it was also very affordable.

    You remember those days too?

    I remember need to have a small surgical procedure done when under the dad’s insurance plan, while in college and after I don’t think the parents got a bill. It was all covered.

  89. “I do not care what your personal politics are. I think we can all agree that my right to swing my fist ends where your face begins.”

    Can we get an AMEN, brothers and sisters?

  90. myiq, my nephew is a doctor and he said exactly the same thing you just said. They just won’t obey.

    But I wonder – insurance likes to deny things. If a patient has an insurance which covers abortion, but the MD has refused to do the legally mandated ultrasound and just went ahead with the abortion, won’t the insurer refuse to pay the MD and the bill end up being sent by the MD to the patient?

  91. I really can’t stand WordPress today. They have effectively ruined free discourse.

  92. “So, SHV, basically, if we drill, we do nothing for our own energy needs but help out the highest bidder (think, China), ”
    **********
    It’s very difficult to know what is going on, since everyone seems to have an agenda that isn’t related to helping the consumers of this country. The oil companies want expanded oil leases off shore, Alaska, etc. so they can drill, discover/not discover oil and then cap the well. Oil that is proven to exist in a lease is added to the oil company’s proven reserves. This is where then Gov. Palin got into the shit with the rethug establishment and the oil bidness in Alaska. She basically said produce from the oil leases or loose the lease. The oil companies worth (stock price) is heavily weighted on how much proven reserves that it holds and not oil being produce. (Gotta keep those stock options for the senior execs. and board members gaining value.) And despite sitting on a lot of non-producing reserves, the top 5 oil companies have produced a trillion dollars in profits over the past decade.

  93. michelina – xxoo!

  94. “Fredster, what few people know is that Komen didn’t just try to cut off PP. They succeeded in cutting off some serious cancer research hospitals that also do stem cell research, including Johns Hopkins.”
    **********
    That never gets mentioned by Komen in it’s mea culpa or by the MSM. The PP contribution by Komen was less than a million $$, researchers who who work at institutions that are also doing stem cell research lost millions in funding. And I don’t think that funding was restored.

  95. My mom had 2 d&c’s which accounted for the big gap in ages between the 2 older kids & the 2 younger kids. They were abortions, though this was in a country where abortion was illegal. We younger kids would not be around if her dr had not suggested that maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to continue the pregnancy (married, stable , etc).
    Probably part of why I am personally pro-life though politically pro-choice.

    Votermom, I can’t remember which country you’re from originally. But your comment made me wonder, was birth control also illegal in that country?

    Some of the republicans blew me away this year. It’s standard fare for them to bring out abortion in an election year (and for the dems to play their part in the game, too), but this year the conversation immediately went to people trying to even demean contraception! It was like a total attack on women – too freaky!

  96. but the fundies want to be able to force women to be brood mares?

    But PMM, the women asked for it by having sex. No one seems to notice that a man was involved, too. The woman is responsible for everything.

  97. Yep. Still here! Just lurking daily

    Rev War Vet – your story retelling of MKBill’s ancestors was such incredibly wonderful writing. You NEED to STOP lurking!

  98. I know lorac! I actually copied that MKBill’s ancestor Sir WIlliam, Crossing the delaware story into a file. It just tickled me so much. Yes Vet you are an awesome writer.

  99. Fredster, i wrote the list of research hospitals and centers they cut off. It was horrific. I forgot where in this blog I wrote it, alas.

  100. SHV, thank you for confirming my worst fears. lol.

  101. lorac, I don’t think the insurance companies will complain about no ultrasound. After all, it saves them money.

  102. Can we get an AMEN, brothers and sisters?

    Twice!!!!

  103. What if at sometime in the future, some woman finds that she had cancer and it could have been found with this test?

    So…. every woman should have an abortion every so many years, so they can have the ultrasound, because it might show them they have cancer?

    I’m really glad that this procedure alerted you and your MD to something going on inside of you. But if it’s warranted as a diagnostic tool for cancer, certainly it’s something that could be done without it needing to be tied to abortions.

  104. Are women conscious or totally anesthesized when they have a surgical abortion? I’m wondering, because loopy said what’s the big deal about the invasiveness of an ultrasound, when the abortion procedure is similar anyway? But if you’re asleep for the abortion, you’re not likely going to feel the emotional discomfort of the invasiveness. I know they put you to sleep for a d&c, so maybe they put you asleep for an abortion as well? Meanwhile, the vaginal ultrasound PREabortion, you’d be awake for, right…?

  105. Nah lorac, you know how us whores all love to be probed with big objects, with or without our permission.

  106. uppity said:

    lorac, I don’t think the insurance companies will complain about no ultrasound. After all, it saves them money.

    If nothing else, the ins. companies would deny payment for an ultrasound as being not medically necessary before the abortion procedure.

  107. lorac said:

    But if you’re asleep for the abortion

    Who said you’re asleep for an abortion lorac? Most women who give birth only have an epidural.

    http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/epidural.html

  108. I get what you guys are saying, but they’d save even more money if they could deny payment even for the abortion whenever the ultrasound wasn’t done. But either way, yeah, they’re gonna want to do whatever they think will save them the most money!

  109. Fredster, I asked if they are asleep, because I don’t know. But they put you to sleep for the d&c. I’m not very knowledgable about abortions or babies, but I’m thinking that the woman being conscious during birth is so the baby isn’t born on so many drugs, and also so the woman can emotionally experience the birth. I don’t think either of those considerations would come into play for an abortion – ie, you wouldn’t need to be awake, so maybe you’re not…?

    But I do know you’re asleep for a d&c (although apparently sometimes women choose a spinal something or other so they’re numbed but asleep). And it sounds like sometimes (maybe up to a certain number of months…?) a d&c is what the “abortion” is….? That’s why I’m thinking they may be asleep, at least sometimes.

    But tell me this: where else but UW’s place would you find a gay man and gay woman trying to discuss abortions and babies? lol

  110. lorac: You know how much they love to deny payments. 😉

    I think sometimes the claims examiners get a bonus or something when they are able to deny a certain number of claims per day. LOL!

  111. But tell me this: where else but UW’s place would you find a gay man and gay woman trying to discuss abortions and babies? lol

    I was thinking the same thing!! I knew about the epidural thing from women friends who had babies. I was surprised at you saying they do put the woman to sleep under a general for the d&c. I figured the ins. companies would only want the woman to have a local instead of general anesthesia.

  112. Well, who knows, that may be the wave of the future!

    I know there can be dangerous consequences to general anesthesia, so perhaps the spinal route of numbing way is safer, I don’t know – but reacting from a gut level, I sure woudn’t want anyone doing anything to my spine!

  113. I sure woudn’t want anyone doing anything to my spine!

    Me too!! GIMME THE DRUGS!!! KNOCK ME OUT!

  114. All of the women I know who had abortions were knocked out, some kind of general anesth. They said it was mild though and wore off fast, like the kind the dentist gives you. I had a lot of miscarriages myself and have had 2 d & c’s. The first one I was knocked out, the 2nd was an emergency and there was no time so I wasn’t knocked out although they put morphine or something in my iv. A few months after that I got preggers with mr laker.

  115. Did you guys see this about Satanorum saying repubs may as well vote for barky if Mittens is the candidate?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/rick-santorum-etch-a-sketch-mitt-romney_n_1373243.html?ncid=webmail1

    I have Colbert on now, and he’s showing a clip of Satan snarling that it should be illegal for presidents to speak off a teleprompter. He is truly fucking insane.

  116. but reacting from a gut level, I sure woudn’t want anyone doing anything to my spine!

    15 hours of hard labor….you’ll feel differently! I worry more about general, as in they put you to sleep and you never wake up!

  117. imust, wow, 15 hrs! Too bad we didn’t know you then, one of us could have been there and waved a pie under your nose to encourage you to hurry up! 🙂

  118. socal@2:27- I did not know that. I’m sure it’s (I hesitate to use the word) easier if the pt is completely out.

    imust: You mean you weren’t pounding on your belly shouting “Get out! Get out!!”

  119. Nah Fred….I was in too much pain! But after the epidural…everything was cool!

  120. No pie allowed lorac, unless it was pie-flavored ice chips!

  121. I was in too much pain! But after the epidural…everything was cool!

    Naturally, I can only imagine!

  122. Votermom, I can’t remember which country you’re from originally. But your comment made me wonder, was birth control also illegal in that country?

    I avoid saying, because I want to avoid getting the ethnic slurs from the obots (I’ve seen what they call my countrymen who don’t worship the big 0).

    But yeah, contraception is legal there. From poking around in my mom’s stuff when I was a kid, I know she may have used a diaphragm. Don’t know if she ever used the pill, but it is available over the counter there. So are antibiotics and bunch of drugs that are rx only here.

    (Actually some of them are rx only in theory there, but available otc in practice.)

    Oh, I have to weigh in on the epidural thing. I dread needles and the idea of a huge needle going in my spine is one of the reasons I picked natural (no drugs) birth twice. It was not that bad, lucky for me.

  123. votermom, if it’s Israel, you are most definitely safe here!

  124. For my “procedure” (way back when, before misoprostol + methotrexate, i.e. the “abortion pills” were approved), I had abdominal US to verify length of pregnancy, and light sedation (“twilight anesthesia” + nitrous oxide (“laughing gas”)… No biggie @ 7 wks.

    When I gave birth to my son, I was all about natural childbirth (wasn’t that bad as votermom mentioned; I think we make create far too much anxiety about “the agony of childbirth” – after all, if my mare could do this 8 times, I could do it once!), but I suffered a 3rd degree perineal tear due to my stubborn insistence not to be cut for an episiotomy…

  125. Val, I don’t know. I never had the desire to pass a bowling ball but that’s just me.

    Incidentally, re: That email exchange we had about my needlenose’s creatnine number. It is back to 1.7 and all systems are well.

  126. Thank God about Needlenose! Beautiful creature!

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