The ladies of FOX news forget to pretend that they’re fair and balanced when they ask Bounty Hunter “Dog” who he likes for 2016. They are shocked, dismayed…and even saddened {sob-sob} when he pretty much endorses Hillary Clinton for POTUS!!!


Watch it while you can. I’m sure FOX will want this video erased from the inter-tubes.


262 Responses

  1. That is a beauty! Thanks so much Uppity! Hoorah for Bounty Hunter!

  2. If Hulk Hogan comes out for Hillary, they’ll need an on set defibrillator.

  3. A new thread!, and I had just finished a comment on the other one!

    Just to briefly repeat I do hope that at some point in the next 18 months, the media will actually focus on issues. I don’t think that there is too much chance that Hillary would lose on the issues. Of course, that is probably why the media tries to avoid talking about the issues, and is going to try to make it a personality contest, as if we were in fifth grade.

    I had heard of this Bounty Hunter person, but never have seen his show. Good for him, in any event.

  4. Baa waa waa. Hysterical!! I like that phrase the dynamic duo.

  5. Hahaha you GO Dog!

    Don’t thank me, Sharon, imust did the post.

  6. Something’s going on with me and wordpress. I can’t click on any frontpage links. In two browsers. Works everywhere else. I swear i think this lappy is croaking

  7. Really, the nerve of that woman. Journalism is soooooooo dead.

    Correction: I just noticed it’s FOX. As expected.

  8. Same for me. I am unable to comment from the blog post, click on links or anything. I am commenting from Admin Comments page to let you know.

  9. Me too. Click on comment box and nothing happens. I had to go in through the admin comments page.

  10. I couldn’t watch the youtube OR comment or like the post in firefox, but it’s working okay in I.E. Hmmmm….

    I could say something about those women in the Fox clip, but y’all would slap me down so fast my head would spin and I’d probably have to go to the dentist also.

  11. Well that settles it. WP is doing some software changes. That kind of stuff usually affects people, so at least we all know it’s not us. xo

  12. Fredster, re: fox women; Eh, we probably all thought what you wanted to say.

  13. Fredster, thank you for the lovely Jacquie birthday card.

  14. Happy Birthday Uppity! So is this post a dud, or is it that people can’t comment because of the wp changes? I tried to comment using Chrome, that didn’t work. I don’t have IE

  15. Not having IE is actually a blessing. lol. I think it’s wp doing things. We can comment from admin page.

  16. I still had to start IE to comment. I’m okay with F.F. over at TW but not this site. Granted, I’m using an older version of F.F. but it’s working okay on other wordpress sites.

    Fredster, thank you for the lovely Jacquie birthday card.

    You are entirely welcome dear friend. Hugs!

  17. Fredster, it’s my experience when WP is rolling something out or fiddling, they do it in batches. So it would be possible that you would have problems at one site and not another.

  18. I just entered the front page and all the links are working for me………except the ability to comment. So others might be having problems. I see you were able to comment though, Fredster, so i hope it’s about to get better. Myself and Imust and Sophie can comment from the admin panel so we aren’t blacked out.

  19. I have posted at the WP users help forum on this issue. I’ll keep you posted. Looks like nobody can comment except moderators.


  20. LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOT ALONE WITH THIS PROBLEM. I found another post on it

    Apparently, the theme i am using since 2008 has some problems. If they don’t fix it, we will be forced to change our format. Old habits die hard. We’ll see.

  21. Is it a hassle to change themes Uppity?

  22. Click on themes. We want a free one. We need 3 columns and help me pick one from these SHITTY choices. Apparently our theme was ‘retired’ in 2003 and so it’s not updated to meet wordpress changes. This means EVERYBODY with this theme is screwed.

  23. And none of them appear as though they will be able to accommodate our header size. No matter which of these themes we choose we are going to hate it. And I am not going to pay for a “Premium” theme, and if truth be known I don’t like any of them either.

  24. Here are the ‘choices’ of 3 column. Anything else will trash this blog and I just don’t have the energy to start all over again.

  25. my final comment there, probably won’t make me too popular, lol, but it’s the truth. I wish Matt were still around, he was so interpersonal and would have bent over backwards to fix this problem for the users and not leave them dead in the water.

    I have over 100 headers for Digg3, created in photoshop by a member since 2008. We were known as having a “Living Header” to over 4 million visitors. They don’t look like a size that will fit any of the other 3 column them choices. This is very disconcerting particularly with no warning since this theme was retired. Those of us who use Digg3 had no idea and no time to prepare. For all intents and purposes, our blogs are dead unless we scramble. I am about to enter into a mess during a change. I can feel it in my bones.

    We may have to go with this one because it CLAIMS to ‘adapt’ to our content. Once we start experimenting with these themes we can never go back.

  26. We have to do something ASAP. If not, nobody will be able to comment but moderators. I’m going in. We can try a bunch. If people see a mess they will have to live with it. From the looks of that thread at the forum, they aren’t going to do a thing to accommodate the users who have digg3. I’m monitoring that thread and it looks to me like they are basically telling us Toughsky Shitsky

  27. I can try some on my blog. It’s dead anyway. That way you can see them without ruining your blog.

    I just changed mine to “Oxygen”. It’s not bad. It condenses the posts and you have to click on them to get the full post.

  28. oh good idea! Brilliant!

    My last comment:

    I have a question as well. What will happen to my thousands of existing posts, will they still be readable once they are shifted to a new format? I need to know this because my blog represents years of writing with a loyal following — and I need to decide if it’s best for me to stay with wordpress or export my posts while they are still readable. Meanwhile, my readers are also very flustered as they cannot comment.

    So check and see what the change does to your archived posts. xo you are a freaking genius. Let’s go to your place. Start a thread for us to talk and evaluate.

  29. Can you put pics in the margins?

  30. can you start a new thread there for us so we can talk there instead of toggling?

  31. Will do. See ya there.

  32. Okay…I already see a problem. I can’t comment!

  33. The headers won’t work either. All of our headers are worthless with a new theme. I am sick.

  34. Try the “Adaption” one. Wait I am a mod there. I’ll try it.

  35. Yeah! Easier for you to just do it!

  36. Okay gang, we are working on this. Bear with us.

  37. Just checking to see if I can comment regular way. Don’t understand all the techno-speak, but it doesn’t sound good.

  38. I didn’t have any problem commenting, Up.

  39. Okay, I can comment but only if I go onto WordPress itself and post from there. Awkward. Hopefully the wrinkles will be ironed out soon.

  40. We’re just going to have to wait a few days to see if WP is going to do anything about this or just leave all the digg3 theme users hung out to dry. Switching in our case is a lot of WORK. Imust (bless her heart!) and I were up very late testing themes on her blog and just finding one that would take alll of our headers and not mangle them was a chore. And the free fonts are HORRIBLE. They are dull and lifeless and leave little room for any creativity, how very Gen Y.

    Meanwhile, people are just doing to have to bear with us. I have some very critical medical tests this week and I have to put my health first. One test tomorrow will determine if I am on my way to recovery or in trouble. I am worried. I am also annoyed that our theme died two years ago and wp didn’t even bother letting the many people who use it know so they could prepare and move ahead without duress. this really pisses me off. But in the end, it’s not all that important in the grand scheme of life is it? So we wait a day or so to see if things improve and if not, we just switch themes whether we like it or not, and hope our nearly 4000 posts remain readable besides, which it appears from our tests that they will.

    Conversely I cannot expect imust and sophie to bear this burden, so things aren’t going to work that fast from my end. We’ll do our best.

  41. imust, you are THE BEST! Thanks for last night. Hahahaha.

  42. Uppiity, you take care of your health. We’ll all be okay. And if you need anything, Sophie and I are happy to help in any way we can.

  43. Better news! We have another wordpress person on that help forum who is a little (let’s say a LOT) more customer oriented. Of course, it’s a woman and here is her comment to all of us:

    Sorry for the trouble folks are having with Digg3. The issue has already been reported to our developers and we’ll keep this thread updated when a fix is in place.

    A departure from the snotty guy last night, to say the least.

  44. Laughing here, imust, the very people who keep telling me to avoid stress are creating SO MUCH stress for me. You’re at a crossroads, Uppity. Oh wait, maybe not. Let’s test your ejection fraction but then let’s make you wait till your next appt to find out if you are going to drop dead soon or not. It’s shit like that that gives me stress.

    Last night we were good together. Hahahahahaha. Looks like that STAY theme (boring!) might be the only one that will take our header size though. Size matters!

  45. Me at the forum.

    A customer-oriented responder with a smidgen of empathy AKA “Happiness Engineer” makes the world of difference. We’ll do a wait and see on my blog and I will hand out sedatives to members, lol.

    For those of you who want to read that help thread to follow along with what’s happening or not happening, go here:


  47. Testing one two three in comment section. YES!!!! Squeaky wheels are a good thing! And so are customer oriented people!

  48. The issue in Digg3 should now be fixed – thanks for your patience.

    If your site still doesn’t look right, please try hard-refreshing the site in your browser and clear your cache:

    If anyone still sees an issue in Digg3 after doing the above, please provide a link to your site. Thanks!

  49. If this posts, then I was able to make a comment, which is good.

  50. Test comment from my iPad (Safari).

    Uppity, Your health above all!

    Roz in NJ/NYC

  51. A very happy and glorious birthday, Dearest Upps.
    Lots of love XXOO. (Vino and cake would I send you if you just told me where….)

    All the very best to you.

  52. Yay! Happy Belated Birthday Upps! And what wizard says, your health comes first. But thank you and hugs to you and imust for fixing the blog. I’m really amazed it was fixed so quickly.

    Happy Monday Everyone!

  53. Thanks NES!

    socalm Roz, William, Wizard, etc. I’m so glad I didn’t have to get some sedatives for everyone!

  54. I’m watching the Godfather on A&E. Ah, my goombahs!

  55. Wrinkles are ironed out–yay!

    And a very Happy Birthday to you, Uppity.

  56. Birthday was yesterday but close enough!

  57. Whoo Hoo! Commenting from the front page. Great work!

  58. Just caught a glimpse of the news. Good Lord. Do we have any Marylanders here?

  59. Here’s hoping you’ll ace all your tests, Uppity.

  60. Glad to see everything is back to normal.

  61. imust, you are THE BEST! Thanks for last night. Hahahaha.

    Ooooooh, just wait 'till NES read this, imust. imusthiderfromNES!

    UW, happy belated birthday. And we'll all be sending you good vibes tomorrow (okay, "today", I'm up late!)

  62. Grrrrr


  63. Uppity, A belated “Happy Birthday!” You’ve been in my thoughts all through your health crisis. Hoping there’ll be only positive test results today, and that you’ll celebrate many, many more birthdays!

    Roz in NJ/NYC

  64. GREAT song lorac.

  65. Thanks Roz. Can’t say I’m not a bit nervous over this one.

  66. UW, are you back home?

  67. I took the echo, it’s old hat for me. I was told I will get the results when I do my nuke stress test next week, Lorac. So we will see. Feeling okay though.


    VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis has added his voice to the feminist anthem of equal pay for equal work, saying it’s “scandalous” that women earn less than men for doing the same job.

    Francis also lambasted the attitude of some who blame the crisis in families on women getting out of the house to work. He says such attitudes are a form of “machismo” that shows how men “want to dominate women.”

  69. I’m a recovering Catholic. Count me as a skeptic till the Church starts practicing what this.Pope now preaches and offers equal opportunity to women including the opportunity to become priests. And changes the doctrine on contraception and abortion. Of course, that’s not going to happen any time soon. I hope Francis is sincere and not just engaging in pr which, I admit, he’s very good at.

  70. Happy belated Birthday Upps!!! ❤

  71. Rebel I am a longtime Ex Catholic. I just think the guy is cute, mainly because he’s such a HUMAN departure from the last creature they picked and subsequently sent into exile.

    Even more fun is he gives the Cardinals (and Bishops and all those other hypocritical heirarchal horses asses) EXTREME heartburn. I do hope the man has many body guards because I am sure they want to go back to their opulent lives as soon as possible.

  72. Hey thanks Foxy!

  73. Yeah, Up, they may have offed the one before JP II in the late seventies. He showed signs of original, independent thinking too. Francis better have a food taster.

  74. Right on, Brassy Rebel. I’ll sit up and take notice when Francis trumpets the fact that Mary Magdalene was an apostle and, therefore, women have every right to the priesthood.

  75. Excellent!

    Hillary Clinton Keynote Speech – 18th Annual Dinkins Forum

  76. You guys must have watched the DaVinci Code. Far as I know, there’s no ref of MM being an apostle, but I’ll tell you what else there is no reference to. There’s no reference to the gospel of Thomas. That’s because Constantine and the boys buried it under a boulder instead of including it in their hand picked story.Before I continue, we have to understand why constantine even bothered appointing MEN to put all of this together. He needed something with which he could control the masses of people. You know, keep em quaking in their boots and towing the line and all that stuff. I will never stop believing that’s how Revelations really happened. Boy can that scare the crap out of people. Anyways, back to Thomas. Thomas’ gospel was found under a boulder in 1940-something. It was a commission of a cardinal sin all unto itself………… gave. women. a. fair. shake.

    And so that whole story goes. Who knows. One day someone might find the gospel of MM buried somewhere too.

  77. MM was the first person that Jesus appeared to after the resurrection and it was she who informed the others.
    That makes her an apostle in my book.

  78. Which day next week do you get the results, UW?

  79. Actually, there is a gospel of Mary Magdalene! This and the gospel of Thomas and some others comprise the so called Gnostic gospels–meaning they’re no good at all as far as the Church is concerned.

  80. Yes, but the Gnostics are obnoxious so the church took advantage of that. The MM gospel kind of just appeared out of thin air. As for the church, what do you expect from people who tortured galileo and locked him up for life as a heretic — for having the nerve to tell them the sun and all the planets didn’t revolve around the earth–and then who finally admitted they were wrong…in……..1992. No that year was not a typo.

    Incidentally, a few years before that, Cardinal Ratzinger, also known as that creepy crawly Pope Benedict The Exiled, said that the church was right to do what they did to Galileo and basically, he’s not changing his perfect little mind, science be damned. When he was pope, he tried to speak at the same univeristy he made that remark to and they let him know they were not interested in his visit, which he cancelled. Creepy crawly and the poster boy for divisiveness, that guy was.

  81. Hillary puts her foot on the throat of the Select Committee in a letter stating she wants to testify without delay and she wants to do so in public. Oh my, however will they delay this till 2016 and pretend they are ‘forced’ to have her testify in private so they can leak bullshit rumors about the hearing. Oops!

  82. Harrumph — lorac and imust were playing without me….

    Hey lorac, good to have you back. XO

  83. Aaaaand Bernie Sanders enters the race. Running as a Democrat. Hillz graciously welcomes him into the fray.

  84. Haha! Hillary’s got em all on the run.

  85. imust–not sure what you mean…

  86. See Uppity’s comment at 1:25 and now she’s just agreeing with her new challenger and welcoming him to the race.. On the run….maybe not the right words. She’s on the offensive and not taking prisoners.

  87. Sophie that video is hilarious! What a great job that impersonator did.

  88. Like Hillary’s gracious tweet about Bernie. Do you know he would be 75 when taking office if he won?!? All the hissing about Hillary’s age that I’ve heard for years, yet I haven’t seen anyone mention Bernie’s age on any of the threads about him. Like its just swell for an elderly man to be prez, but a woman several years younger–omg–menopause! Hot Flashes! Too old! Hypocrites.

  89. I sort of liked Sanders; he certainly stands up to the corporatists. But he can be very tiresome, as he never relinquishes a point. One can only hope that in debates with Hillary, he is polite and reasonable, and does not keep attacking her just because she does not have the political leeway of an Independent Senator from Vermont, but has to represent the entire country.

    One thing which has irritated me for years, and certainly in 2008, is that Hillary, at least in my perception, is quite liberal; but she keeps getting attacked by the far left wing of the Democrat Party, which was so convinced that Obama was the great liberal, and that Hillary was “cozy with Wall Street.” Actually, I have always thought that Hillary is the last New Deal candidate left. Sanders can go on and on about this or that, but if he acts like Hillary is anywhere in the same region as the Republicans, he is engaging in grandstanding; and it will not be helpful to our chances to win the election. Surely he has to realize that.

  90. Bernie is already crowing about the Clinton Foundation money and the money she wants to raise for her campaign. He’s not takin’ no stinkin’ money, etc….

    Yeah socal…..howcome no “Weekend at Bernie’s” jokes? Or Crypt keeper comments???

  91. I guess it is somewhat helpful to have Hillary getting a chance to hone her debate skills, which are already superb; and to have someone to run against, rather than just being ceded the nomination. Maybe we need a third candidate in there to perhaps deflect some of Sanders’ attention.

    Sanders should realize that it is not 1938, and that if he does not want to hand the country and the planet over to the Republicans, he might tone down I don’t take large donations, I am Upton Sinclair stuff. The Republicans will raise billions of dollars to try to take over the country, the Supreme Court, and everything else they can ravage.

  92. William, I have noticed both Sanders and Warren being touted as being more liberal/populist/progressive than Hillary when in fact, on a number of issues she has been ahead and to the left of them both.

    socal, I have not yet seen an article about Bernie that went, “Sanders (73) announced his…” Yet, every single book tour article did, “Hillary (67)…”

    The thing is–he has never done a negative ad and he doesn’t get money from big anything. Running against Hillary at this time, he wouldn’t even need to. He will be the most immediate beneficiary of the Koch Brothers’ money and the right’s Stop Hillary campaign.

  93. IMO being labelled as very progressive is a path to losing the election. I truly think Americans are sick of extremes. They are sick of left wing extremes just as they are sick of right wing extremes. A heavily labelled progressive gives ME pause as I am a left leaning moderate in some cases and I lean right in others. For example I don’t think we take the Islamic desire to squash democracy and replace it with Sharia seriously enough, right here in our own country. I think what has occurred at our borders is a scourge upon our country and a massive financial burden upon the middle class. You get the picture. A major attraction to Hillary for me is she is ad hoc practical that way. In any event, they can taut sanders and warren as their path to nirvana all they want. They are losers in a general election as sure as I am sitting here. Much of the attraction to Hillary is the fact that she is NOT warren or sanders. The kossacks and MoveyOny bunch are only attractive to the far left. They are the loudmouths, but they are a small number of the electorate, just as the Tea Party is. Just my two cents. I think that because they got away with Obama, they think they can do this again. Fact is, Obama was a “First” due to his race. Toss in that any democrat could have won thanks to GWB, the D party wasted an easy win on him. And as a president he wasn’t all that and a bag of chips. They will never pull off warren or sanders, no matter how much they dream. This year is NOT going to be the easy win Obama had, it will be more challenging BECAUSE of Obama.

    I think Warren is a loose cannon who shoots from the hip and isn’t very good at it, but I admit i have liked some of the things Sanders has said now and then, but at the core he is a serious socialist, which is a MoveyOny dream, but it’s certainly not MY dream nor is it the dream of the majority of Americans.

    When the Liberal Party and the Conservative* Party melded into the two major parties that is when the problems of destroying America in one direction or the other started. Along with them came the communist party and the liberarians, all extremists. They have all mucked up two political parties, they are divisive and they are extremely destructive to a democracy. I don’t want them in my kitchen telling me what to eat. And I don’t want them in my bedroom telling me who to love. When we start making laws forcing people to use putrid light bulbs that cause house fires and contain mercury, there is something wrong. When we start declaring Corporations have Personhood Rights, there is something wrong. My dream is to see those two fringe parties as their own parties again. See if one of them would win THEN.

    * I remember when the Conservative party meant FISCALLY conservative not Socially Conservative Meddlers. And I remember when religion was supposed to stay out of politics and our schools. I went to school and NEVER said a prayer. We DID however, pledge the allegiance. Nobody died.

  94. It would be a fool’s errand for any serious presidential candidate to rely solely on small contributions. That would mean relying on the hollowed out middle class to go up against the Kochs who helped hollow out the middle class. Hillary is no fool, and Bernie is NOT a serious candidate. I like her “kill him with kindness” tactic. And it might not be a bad thing for her to have a sparring partner who actually has a brain as opposed to just Marty O or the ridiculous Lincoln Chaffee.

  95. It would be a fool’s errand for any serious presidential candidate to rely solely on small contributions. That would mean relying on the hollowed out middle class to go up against the Kochs who helped hollow out the middle class.

    This would be funny if it weren’t the damned truth.

    Hey I think having O’M and Chaffee in debates would be a riot. It’s kind of like watching Rick Santorum debate. An eyeball-rolling experience. I guess you’re right about Bernie. At least she’ll have someone to spar with and she’s great when she spars.

  96. Uppity and Brassy, you make some good points. I do remember Bradley hammering away at Gore, and I don’t think it helped Gore’s campaign. I remember Jerry Brown, whom I basically like, focusing on corruption in politics when he ran against Bill Clinton in ’92. I never think any of this helps the main candidate; I just hope it doesn’t hurt very much.

    Yes, the far Left has been doing this for decades. No one is good enough for them. They latched onto Obama because they were so desperate to keep the Clintons from being back in power. They are always looking for what they think is ideological purity, somewhat like the French Jacobins. I guess that McGovern was their ideal candidate; he was an honorable man who lost by an immense landslide, and led to the liberals being so discredited for a while, that Jimmy Carter was the next candidate. They don’t seem to have much perspective on anything.Hillary is closer to a classic New Deal Democrat than any candidate we have had in decades, and they refuse to see it. This election is beyond crucial. If the Republicans win, I don’t know what kind of planet we will have left. And yes, the monied right wing will try to depress Hillary’s vote margins, or harp on anything she says during a debate. But I suppose that if she ran unopposed, it might not be ideal, either. The thing about Sanders is that while he is right on many domestic issues, he has a somewhat whiny tone, and he is sure he is right about everything; so I don’t think that the debates will be as collegial as I might like.

  97. William, do you know what killed McGovern’s win? His followers. People were horrified and terrified by them. His own followers ruined it for him. How the hell else do you think Nixon won by a landslide? And it was a landslide.

    Ah the days of hope when I wrote this. The pics are gone thanks to a site pulling the plug, that’s too bad because the similarities in logos between McGovern and Obama were obvious

    Here’s where i compared Obama supporters to McGovern’s supporters

  98. Uppity, I enjoyed reading your piece on McGovern. My recollections are a little different, but your point about the comparisons between the supporters is interesting. Just to go back a bit in history, the Vietnam War tore the nation apart. Eugene McCarthy courageously ran against President Johnson in the ’68 primaries, when Robert Kennedy would not; and McCarthy did so well, that Johnson, who may also have been ill, decided not to run. At that point Kennedy entered the race, split the anti-war vote with McCarthy, then of course was tragically assassinated.

    Kennedy and McCarthy, or at least their followers, genuinely hated one another. Kennedy’s people refused to swing their delegates to McCarthy, and urged McGovern, a friend of RFK, to enter the race so that they could give him the delegates. This he did. None of this ultimately mattered, in that Humphrey had the delegates from the bosses; but I will always believe that had RFK not run, McCarthy would have won so many primaries that he would have almost forced Daley and the other bosses to support him; and I think he would have beaten Nixon.

    So then McCarthy, who for all his gifts, was enigmatic; and was sort of fed up with the whole thing, decided to leave the Senate. He would have been the consensus nominee in ’72 had he not. McGovern ran, won a few early primaries; and his supporters took over the primary voting machinery, in much the way that Obama’s took over the caucuses. It was sort of a coup; Gary Hart’s (his campaign manager) one legitimate claim to fame. But McGovern, who indeed was a decent man, was not a good campaigner. I’m not sure that McGovern’s supporters were so awful, but certainly a lot of Americans did not like hippies and anti-war protesters. And the ’72 convention was a farce. There were so many people who wanted to speak; so many nominees for VP, that by the time McGovern got to accept the nomination, it was 3AM.

    That was a very sad election cycle, culminated by the Nixon landslide. By ’76, the left wing had been somewhat repudiated, so they lost organizing power, and hence Carter sort of defaulted his way into the nomination. The Republicans were able to run against Carter for about 20 years, until Clinton finally got the Democrats back to respectability. And Hillary should absolutely have been nominated in 2008; nominating Obama almost cost the Democrats a certain victory. I have usually identified myself as a liberal on most issues, but the far Left of the Democratic Party has arguably been a ruination to this Party on various occasions. All this Elizabeth Warren idolatry is another example of that; she is an intelligent woman who says worthwhile things; and has about as much chance of every being elected as McGovern. Patron saints of the admirable and hopeless causes. The planet simply cannot afford it now.

  99. William, wonderful comment.
    It amazed a very young me that the Republicans and their (almost all mainstream) Media could paint a WWII fighter pilot as a lily livered coward and traitor.
    Fast forward thirty odd years and they do the same to a much decorated Swift Boat captain and stupid people still fall for it.

  100. I need a “Salon” intervention; every one of their Hillary pieces is a hit job.

  101. Thank you, Sue. 🙂 Yes, I was also young at the time, and I did not really realize that McGovern was a legitimate war hero. Just appalling that he was attacked as being a pacifist coward, or something like that, with all of those phony Republican war supporters who made sure that they never got within 2,000 miles of Vietnam. Mike Royko’s term “Chicken Hawks” was so perfectly apposite.

    As for the “swift boat” travesty, this was of course the broadcast media’s fault most of all. They just couldn’t stop running captions like “New swift boat allegations made,” even though they had to know how ridiculous they were. The media, of course, is more interested in getting viewers and ratings than in fairness; and that was a vivid example of it. Gosh, being a Democrat has been a difficult thing for the last 40 years or so; one hopes that Hillary can make up for much of it. I have more hope for what she would do as President than I have had for quite a long time.

  102. I won’t even read Salon. I don’t know how they got so awful, or who is running it. When someone links something from Salon in any context, I usually disagree with its content. My guess is that their basic tone is sort of Susan Sarandon like, “We just don’t like Hillary. We may lose the election, but it’s okay, we still can watch ‘Mad Men,” or have a really good latte and cruller for brunch.on Montana Avenue. We will now concentrate our focus on the vastly important issue of improving the world for transgendered people.”

  103. I try to stay far away from Salon. Every time I see one of their articles linked somewhere, in any context, I find myself disagreeing with it. I don’t know how it gor so bad; it was okay about ten years ago.Does the Obama-adulating Joan Walsh still run it, or was she booted out for ideological impurity? Their general attitude seems to be something in the mode of Susan Sarandon: “I just don’t like Hillary. We may lose the election, but it’s okay, because we can always watch that fascinating show ‘Mad Men,” and go out on a Sunday to Montana Avenue, and have a good latte and cruller, while discussing our important focus on how to improve the lives of transgendered people.”

  104. I try to avoid Salon. Every time I see a link to one of their articles in any context,, and I read it, I find myself disagreeing with their position. Does the Obama-adulating Joan Walsh still run it, or was she booted out for ideological impurity?

    For them to attack Hillary is so arrogant and smallminded. They are in a sense worse than Uppity’s description of McGovern supporters, because the latter at least cared about the fate of the country. At Salon, global warming, corporate billions, are not nearly as important as what is happening on “Mad Men,” or “how courageous Bruce Jenner is.”

  105. I posted this on the Fredster’s site:

    Caught a glimpse of Barney Frank on Bravo’s “Watch What Happens Live” the other night. He said that he was still mad at RBG for not retiring and allowing Obama to pick another Supreme.
    For God’s sake, why? Replacing Ginsberg would not change the makeup of the court and I don’t remember liberals begging John Paul Stevens (at a much older age) to retire-quite the contrary.
    Barney Frank just became Barney Crank to me; talk to the hand!

    Please don’t judge me for watching Bravo; okay go ahead and judge :0

  106. Barney frank is a sleazebag. He screwed us good with his rendition of “Credit Card Reform”. Then when the loopholes started showing, he acted all surprised. And everything else he touched was tweaked against the middle class as well. I have no respect for him whatsoever. He was nothing but the congressional jester far as I was concerned. I thought that would be Al Franken, but instead he turned out to be a very conscientious congressman.

  107. Well put WIlliam, and trust me, I was there. 🙂

  108. Sue and William, it has been a Republican tactic for a long time to attack the Dem nominee’s strength. So they portray McGovern as a wimp and Kerry as a fraudulent hero. And that was really all Kerry had going for him. He lacks any semblance of a personality.

    It’s why they are now attacking the Clinton Foundation. It’s saved millions of lives, especially in Africa. It’s gotta be demonized by both the media and the GOP. Hillary isn’t running on that, tbough. She has lots of other things going for her.

    The irony is that Repubs don’t like Big Government and say private charity should provide help to the needy–as if all the poor people their policies create can be reached by charity alone. Didn’t work in the nineteenth century and never will. But now, in attacking a much respected philanthropy like CF, I guess charity is out with right wing too.

  109. Sue, that’s what you git fer goin’ to Salon, girl.

  110. You can’t trust a publication that calls itself, “Salon”. That’s just too precious.

  111. Happy May Day, foxyladi14.
    You’re right, Uppity and, yes, William, Joan Walsh still runs the show over at Salon. Good perspective, Brassy Rebel.
    Uppity’s is the place to be!

  112. William, it’s true, Salon is run by the “creative class” that wants nothing to do with the old coalition. We don’t make enough money and we probably smell.

  113. William, I have no idea how, but two of your posts landed in spam. It happens, I guess today was your turn. Gremlins are with us.

  114. William, I have no idea how, but two of your posts landed in spam. It happens, I guess today was your turn. Gremlins are with us.

  115. Creative Class My Ass.

  116. Sue, every time I would see Joan Walsh as one of the panelists on an MSNBC show, she would be desperately trying to defend Obama against charges that he was caving in to the Republicans on taxes or the safety net. She would consistently say something like, “Well, yes, I am not thrilled with this, but it is a difficult situation…” Her love of Obama was seemingly independent of any of his actual policies or decisions; it seemed to be primarily about what he represented to her. That’s lovely, but there are real people being affected by the policies. If Salon is now attacking Hillary every chance they get, then it is pretty clear that they are not nearly as interested in actual economic or environmental issues, or in the actual lives of most people, but are instead indulging themselves in some kind of personal and social preference game, a bit like seventh graders might do. And they are so ridiculously self-congratulatory about their supposed discernment. Virtually every movie review I have ever read there was about the social politics of the movie, rather than its aesthetics.

  117. Thanks, Uppity. Actually, I wrote a post; and it disappeared; so I wrote another one with slightly different wording, and that disappeared as well. I thought it was just a technical glitch, but I wasn’t sure, so I took out my comment about Salon readers caring more about drinking lattes on Montana Avenue than about the election results. I thought maybe someone was offended!

  118. Thanks, Uppity. The post I just wrote with the same comment also must have just landed in spam! It’s funny, because I was just saying that I had written something about Salon readers being more interested in enjoying lattes and crullers in Santa Monica, then in the actual election returns; and twice the post disappeared, so I thought that maybe some latte drinkers were offended, and I changed it! But I doubted that. Maybe every time I write the word “latte,” it upsets the computer program?

  119. William I have no idea what the H happened, but you can find solace knowing that you are not alone. I think everybody here has been MKBill’s Spam victim.

    On the other hand, we aren’t the l*tte crowd, for sure. However, I have been known to inhale a cruller now and then. But i always do it in secret.

  120. Well i just fished you out again, William. WTF. Have you changed your IP address or something?

  121. Yup! William, you have two different IP addresses today. Are you commenting from more than one place? The new IP might be one I have spammed from someone else, if you have dynamic IPs with your ISP. I will check.

  122. Nope, don’t see it on spam list. What I think is happening here, William, is…….the system sees your name and email address do not match up with your IP when your IP switches. It’s probably in learning mode, though. We hope. Just bear with us.

  123. Nope, don’t see it on spam list. What I think is happening here, William, is…….the system sees your name and email address do not match up with your IP when your IP switches. It’s probably in learning mode, though. We hope. Just bear with us.

  124. Uppity, I have only one computer, and hence only one IP address. I am enough of a luddite to still use dial-up, could that be the problem? Today is the first time this has happened here, so maybe it will fix itself.

  125. William, dial-up IP addresses are dynamically assigned. It would be more likely that you get a different IP every time you dial in.

  126. Thanks, Sophie. Of course, I dialed in only one time today, and yet some of the posts posted, and others seemed to indicate a different address. I’m sorry for any bother; hopefully it will just fix itself.

  127. William, you are so right about Salon and its movie critics.
    Andrew O’Hehir spent his entire review bitching that Russell Crowe’s new movie about Gallipoli wasn’t focused on Armenian genocide.

  128. Bingo, Sue! That is essentially all that Salon reviewers do, judge movies on whether they advance or hinder the reviewer’s own political or social mindset. It is a troubling trend in literary and film criticism. Of course one’s own views matter, and are part of how one reacts to a book or film. But some reviewing now, particularly as practiced by Salon reviewers, is really not much more than writing political statements; the film has to fit into the reviewer’s narrative, or he or she doesn’t like it. It is a self-centered and rather condescending way to write critical analysis, I think.

  129. I think it’s high time for Ms. Kelly to spill the truth about Chris Christie and the bridge closing.

  130. Rebel, love your comment at 1:56pm:

    “You can’t trust a publication that calls itself, “Salon”. That’s just too precious.”

    LOL! And so true!

  131. William, shame about your comments going into the spam monster. And some of Uppity’s are repeated. Its happened to most of us at one time or another.

  132. Sophie’s right about the IPs, it’s what caused the problem in your case. AOL is one of the most notorious for landing in spam because they assign a new IP address every time you power them up even if it’s not dialup. So next time you dial in, it will likely happen again, but we’ll always fish you out and it’s been my experience that WP finally gets the point eventually and will not judge you by your IP.

    I guess the idea is to ensure that a stranger can’t login to wp as you, and IP is usually a tipoff of that.

    Imust, Sophie, glance up at the Spam folder when you on here. You can check to see if William is in there again. It’s temporary.

  133. Hope she doesn’t look like Charles.

  134. Hahaha! Hopefully, she gets her genes from Diana and her mother.

    Upps, I still have aol after all these years. I don’t have dial up though, have fios. Would I still get a new IP?

  135. You HAVE TO go here to watch this video (I cannot find a you tube. And I looked). It is absolutely hysterical and spot on. Please go watch it. Now. Before you do ANYthing else.

    Amy Schumer’s “Ask if birth control is right for you.”

  136. OMG!!!!!!!!! Sophie, I laughed so hard my sides hurt!!! That was so spot on!! The pharmacist at the end….giving the kid….oh I won’t give it away…..sooooo funny!

  137. I’m still laughing!

  138. socal if you use the AOL software you will get dynamic IPs. At least that’s how it was when I was using it with broadband. FIOS is not AOL. So if you use firefox or chrome, etc to use wordpress your IP will be static. I use AOL mail, but I use the webmail. WOuldn’t touch their software with a ten foot pole. Horrible, their own links don’t work lol. Slows your computer down to screetching halt and is the quintessential spyware, even after you log off their software, it still tracks you. You have to go into your task manager and kill the process to get away from them.

    Update: I just checked your IP addresses all the way back to the last two weeks, and your IP address is static. Looks like FIOS took over. I think it has to do with being wireless now. Unless you aren’t posting from AOL software.

  139. OMG that was hilarious!!!

    “Can I have a gun?”

  140. did you post that vid on twitter, sophie? I want to retweet.

  141. I wish there was an embed code….it would be a great post!

  142. I’ll see if I can find it on youtube, imust, meanwhile here’s a good one to go with it.

  143. Nope it’s not there, I think the show is too recent or something.

  144. Yeah, I think I just have the mail. I don’t use their software, although I think I might have 15 years ago.

  145. Love those two videos, the Amy Schumer one and the condom! Perfect!

  146. If anyone here is in the mood, Tweet at @davidsirota, a fauxgressive without a whit of common sense and obviously, no ability to do any fact checking.

    He wrote this crap after the exposing of the Clinton Cash writer as an evidence-free vulture.

  147. Sirota is a long-standing Hillary hater. So this is no surprise. I thought his CDS was terminal, but, apparently, he’s still alive. Of course, Citizens United is irrelevant to the Foundation since it’s, like, you know…a CHARITY.

  148. And, make no mistake, CDS can kill. Christopher Hitchens’ official cause of death was cancer. Personally, I think it was the CDS.

  149. Brassy Rebel, I loathed Christopher Snitchens.
    Hated Michael Kelly, too-both dead.
    Watch out, people, in the immortal words of Snap “I Got The Power.”

  150. Thanks for posting the video, Sophie: almost too true to be funny.

  151. socal I like their webmail. It beats crap out of yahoo and gmail is just plain spyware of the worse kind, I mean they ADMIT that they scan all incoming and outgoing mail for keywords, which also means they are collecting massive doses of information about you. Just sayin’!!!!

  152. Some of these people cannot stop themselves. They apparently would rather have a Republican win, and the planet burn up, than support any Clinton. They are truly despicable. Hillary is actually one of the most progressive candidates to have run for President in the last 50-years, maybe the most progressive. But boy, these people are going to try to get her, even if we end up with Bush or Walker or Paul as President. That will show those Clintons!

    As much as I hate the right wing writers, these faux progressives who think they are smarter than everyone else, when they are really just smug idiots, may do just as much damage. They are the ones who were thrilled to get Obama over Hillary in 2008, and then they were shocked that Obama spent most of his time domestically in caving in to the Republicans in Congress. Not daunted or embarrassed by this, here they are again, trying to defeat Hillary, so we can lose the election, and then somehow get Elizabeh Warren or Upton Sinclair or Eugene Debs elected one of these centuries. I actually think that they derive more satisfaction from having the Democrats lose elections, so that they can continue to complain from what they suppose to be a position of ideological purity. Maybe they can somehow get a third term for Obama, the person that the despicable Maureen Dowd liked to rever to as a “shining knight.” Because after all, he gave a speech somewhere about not being in favor of the Iraq war, and he is not a Clinton. The fact that the Clinton era was one of great prosperity, and an effective foreign policy, is of no consequence to them; this is personal.

  153. Spot on William. This is the part of what you said that really riles me the most:

    Hillary is actually one of the most progressive candidates to have run for President in the last 50-years, maybe the most progressive.

    And yet they kick her to the curb. Like spoiled adolescents mad at their mommies.

  154. Amen to every word, William.
    Even more than the young fauxgressives, the pundits who despise the Clintons but worship JFK bother the shyte out of me.
    That’s classism at its finest.

  155. “Somehow get Upton Sinclair or Eugene Debs elected one of these centuries”.

    Lol, William! That’s great and so frigging true!

  156. ICYMI (from 2010)

  157. My portfolio misses Bill Clinton.

    These little brats got spoiled on their parents’ money….money made during the clinton presidency. Oh the irony.

  158. William, yes, I mentioned upthread that the progs are “so relieved” that Bernie threw his hat in the ring. And “thank God we have a real progressive!” That’s what I’ve read on a lot of posts.

    Brassy, re: Hitchens (10:14), good point!

  159. Clinton years in blue.

  160. Good chart, IMust. It is pretty obvious that that the writers at NYT or Salon have no particular interest in such matters; they get to go to the parties, and to get on the panels on TV political shows, no matter which party is in power. It’s just personal indulgence for them. They like the pretension of importance. I used to watch all the political shows. I wish I could watch more of them now, but I just can’t take it. The vast majority of these people say nothing useful or helpful, they just like being snarky. I don’t think many of them ever got past a seventh grade mentality, fancy suits or not.

  161. Hillz in yoga pants on Ellen

  162. Republicans in the Senate voted down a Resolution that global warming is caused by humans? Terrifying. If the Republicans win the Presidency, they will get rid of every environmental protection law we have. I haven’t looked at any polls on this, but I would imagine that at least 70% or so of Americans believe humans cause global warming. A lot of figurative hay can be made by the Democrats, Hillary and downticket candidates, emphasizing this issue.

  163. I’ll be a good girl and keep my mouth shut about global warming. At least for today.

  164. Ah I see Ben Carson is running for President. Considering his views on……..pretty much anything…he’s sure to offend everyone in both parties sooner or later.

    Some hightlights:
    Dr. Carson believes that there should be government guidelines regarding who should live and who should be sent home to die, based mostly on, you know, cost effectiveness. A real senior crowd-pleaser. And this from people who don’t believe in ‘socializing’ medicine, unless of course the rule benefits insurance companies and leaves more money to pilfer from the medicare pot.
    He thinks automatic weapons should be regulated in large cities. I real NRA crowd-pleaser. But then he’s likely to be against automatic weapons before he was for them, considering he’s running as a Republican.
    He’s against gay marriage. A real gay-lesbian crowd-pleaser. Not to mention his belief that homosexuality is a choice.
    He believes legalizing marijuana leads to hedonistic ‘activity’. There goes California! Pee Ess, I smoked pot just about every day in college. And nobody has ever accused me of being hedonistic.
    He thinks the answer to fixing the ACA is….a health savings account. No kidding.
    He doesn’t believe a whit about evolution.
    He’s a seventh day adventist. Oh isn’t that just grand for the ladies?

    The Republican are so good and finding token black men to run for office and never get any AA votes ala herman cain. It’s really an art, isn’t it?

    Well, at least somebody will give Rick Santorum a run for his money in debates.

  165. Uppity, the philosophical equivalent on the Left to some of these Ayn Rand acolytes on the Right, would be someone who would want to ban all guns; give every out of work American $25,000 a year (actually, McGovern had a similar idea, but everyone mocked it); get the tax rate on the wealthy up to Kennedy era rates (about 70%, I think); socialize all the major industries. There is of course no candidate like that, but its opposite on the Right, is embodied in a number of candidates, who appallingly enough are even given some credence by the media.

  166. Well, as far as Bernie I’m glad he’s running. It gives the cheetos someone else to focus on besides trashing Hillary 24/7.

  167. The Boston Marathon Bomber jerk finally cried at the trial….oh, no…not for the innocent victims of his heinous murders…..

    BOSTON (AP) — For the first time in court, Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev dropped his blank, impassive demeanor and cried as his sobbing aunt briefly took the stand Monday in his federal death penalty trial.

    Tsarnaev, 21, wiped tears from his eyes quickly and fidgeted in his chair as his mother’s sister sobbed uncontrollably. He had maintained an uninterested expression since his trial began in January.

  168. I can’t believe they are talking about his Kindness. Ask the families of the dead and the people who lost limbs how kind he is. He’s crying because he knows he’s going to get the needle, the little fuck.

  169. Aw he cried watching the Lion King, poor baby! Let’s let him go. Boo Fucking Hoo, you POS. You deserve to die and America will set their clocks by your moment.

  170. From NBC:

    Some witnesses cried on the stand Wednesday as they recalled him in his early teens as an intelligent, easy-going student who played sports, liked to party and showed no signs of embracing radical Islam.

    “Super kind, really smart, quick to learn,” said Tracey Gordon, who taught Tsarnaev at the Cambridge Street Upper School from 2003 to 2005.

    “Well behaved. Teachers loved him,” added Rebecca Norris, principal of the Community Charter School of Cambridge, which Tsarnaev abruptly left in the middle of the ninth grade after his mother disagreed with his being sent home for not wearing the right color pants.

    Norris seemed happy to talk about her former pupil, smiling as she testified. “He wasn’t a rebel,”

    Well….it is NBC after all….

  171. Hey NBC! What about 8 year old, little Martin Richard??

    Classmates said Martin told a mean knock-knock joke, ­always won at math games, and stuck up for friends at school.

    “If somebody was left out, he would come say, ‘Want to join my group?’ ” said Colin Baker, 9. “He sticks up for kids.”

    “It should not have happened to him,” Colin said. “It should not have happened to nobody.”

    Martin’s 7-year-old sister, Jane looked up to her big brother, another friend said. “She likes playing like Martin,” said Kaytlyn Lynch, 8. “She’s just like Martin.”

    The family was better known than most in the city. Bill Richard, a respected longtime activist in Dorchester, pushed for the rehabilitation of the Ashmont T station and was intimately involved in improv­ing the neighborhood in recent years, friends said.

    His wife, Denise, who works as a librarian at her son’s school, is a leader of the local civic association.

    No word on whether or not he cried at the Lion King…..

  172. What a crock of crap. They are his relatives FCS. And his family is truly trash to begin with. Screw the whole lot of them. I wonder if Krystal Campbell cried at the Lion King. TO be sure she cried while she was getting her lower body severed and was flying through the air.

    Krystal is foreground in blue top. They should shoot that bastard in the head. Today.

  173. My God, Firefox is going to hell. It took me all this time to get that pic of Krystal posted. I had to move to Chrome.

  174. Upps, I agree with you. I know life in prison would be a horrible punishment, but I would like to see him dead and forgotten. In prison, we’ll still have to see his freak face on the news every few years for some lame story, like some dipshit woman wanting to marry him in prison or something.

  175. Do they celebrate 4th of July in Mexico? I ask because it seems that we are prodded to celebrate Cinco de Mayo here. Wiki says it’s a holiday celebrated by the USA and Mexico. What? We celebrate Mexico’s victory in the Franco-Mexican war? What?

  176. Up, they should celebrate the 4th of July in Mexico. We take their poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free. That’s not a knock on Mexican immigrants, legal or illegal. It’s a knock on a government that refuses to solve its own problems and opts instead to export its citizens. We take the pressure off them.

    That’s why Cinco de Mayo is celebrated here. Millions of Mexicans, many of whom would probably prefer to be home, are living here instead. I don’t blame them. I blame a corrupt and cynical Mexican government along with corrupt and cynical American employers who want cheap labor. Really sad.

  177. Rebel you will get NO argument from me on your analysis.

  178. Erin Burnett, CNN, just gave Carly Fiorina a ton of free air time to bash Hillary Clinton without of course Hillary being able to defend herself. The whole interview was totally softball. Sickening.

  179. Laker asked me to post this funny quote:

    “I’m suspicious of a person who doesn’t like a dog, but I trust a dog who doesn’t like a person.” (AKC)

    Also, Fredster had this hilarious link up on Widders:

  180. I got to see Fiorina in her fairly recent Senatorial campaign in California. She is truly an unpleasant person. Meg Whitman, who ran for governor in the same cycle, is arrogant, and apparently was not nice to her employees, but Fiorina is just a jerk. As it was became obvious that she was going to lose, she became even more unpleasant. I was hoping not to have to read about her ever again, but being politically humilated is apparently no bar if you are on the Right. She is in this race for only one reason: to be a female attack dog against Hillary, even if Fiorina drops out of the race after the first primary. Erin Burnett, herself a spoiled, snarky, and unintelligent right-winger, is of course eager to please her Comcast bosses by giving Fiorina air time..

  181. I of course misspoke; Burnett left CNBC, where she would pretend to be reporting on business, but would, like most of their employees, parrot corporate right wing talking points. Now she is on CNN, doing the same thing. No longer Comcast employing her, but it is pretty much the same thing.

  182. William, yes, they put Fiorina in to be the female attack dog! You are so right! Would love to see them debate.

  183. Hillary is the lead story on Huffpo and the pic of her is beautiful.

  184. Unfortunately I don’t really agree with her on immigration. I think illegal immigration has sucked the blood of taxpayers, are a major cause of exponential increase in health care costs and premiums, there are hospitals that have closed down maternity wards because nearly all of their patients had no insurance and weren’t going to pay, and weren’t even obligated to define if they were even citizens. Emergency rooms have become doctors’ offices, costing the rest of us a fortune. While I agree it’s virtually impossible to deport all those millions of illegals (and that is exactly what they are, illegal, no way to sugar-coat the truth), I would like to know exactly who is going support them. I want to know if this ‘reform’ includes public assistance, because truth be known, we have plenty of Americans who were born here or immigrated here legally, who could use help but can’t get it. About the only good thing about this amnesty, which is what it is, is the fact that corporations who exploit illegals will be forced to pay them a decent salary instead of peasant wages. Walmart will be beside itself. Boo Hoo.

    The other thing I would like to know is what is the path for these people we are just going to forget came here illegally, in or out of their mother’s wombs? Will they be learning English, because, quite frankly, I am a firm believer in speaking the language of the country you are squatting in. If I went to Mexico, to be sure they wouldn’t bend over backwards to speak English to me, much less make a big deal out of the 4th of July like we are expected to do here for Cinco de Mayo. I’m personally kind of sick of people escaping the shitholes they were born in and coming here trying to turn us into the shithole they left. This is especially true for the Islamic countries, and got knows how many of them are here not quite legally too. But don’t come here and bring us your holidays or your religious dogma and “Laws” in an attempt to destroy a democracy. We have our own laws and those are the ones you need to follow. Nobody gives you the right to Sharia us, make up your own rules and “courts” or control anyone living on our land with intimidation. If that’s what you want to do then why the hell didn’t you just stay where your were?

    Back to the “Dream” of people who came here illegal and kind of sometimes act like they effing hate America. What we need to know is, Is the “Dream” to get the rest of us, which means the middle class, to pay for their dreams?
    Immigration grew this county. Do not ever accuse me of being anti immigrants. If it weren’t for LEGAL immigration, I wouldn’t have been born here. However, my grandparents came here the legal way. One of my grandfathers had to come here first without his wife and first child, and had to prove he had a job and a sponsor and……well,,,,, you get the picture. So if we are going to pretend what is going on isn’t illegal, the very least we can do is slam the damned borders shut so all this amnesty doesn’t bring millions more we can’t afford over our border for the college, housing and medial freebees that are sure to follow.

    One more bitch: ID theft is rampant in this country thanks to illegal immigrants. Our dead relatives’ social security numbers are alive and well in many cases. People’s LIVES have been ruined because of these bastards, and if we don’t deport THOSE people, then we are cowtowing to dishonest thieves will will continue to robs us for the rest of our lives. I say any of them engaged in ID theft and social security number theft need to get their thieving, life-ruining asses kicked the hell out of the country forever, no excuses accepted. I don’t feel in the least bit sorry for them, I feel sorry for their victims. A person who would engage in ID theft is lower than whale shit and would do almost anything to anybody.

    Yeah I know. I’m crabby today.

  185. Up, given your health challenges, I don’t know anyone who has a better right to be crabby than you. But keep in mind, the reason Hillary is leaning so far forward on this is because it’s obvious the Repubs have no intention of passing any kind of bill that would deal with the millions of undocumented. They yammer on about securing the border, but Marco Rubio moved away from his own Senate bill which was very heavy on border security. While GOP dithers and dodges, all the problems you cite are only getting worse. If the House had just voted on that Senate bill, this issue finally would be behind us, but Boehner wouldn’t bring it to the floor BECAUSE it would have passed and caused GOP to lose an issue that helps them with their extreme base. Now, Scott Walker is even talking about rolling back some LEGAL immigration.

    It will take a very smart, effective president to solve this problem. That’s where Hillary comes in, and she’s determined to get it done. The status quo is hurting the economy. I also expect her to get tough with Mexico and Central American countries that do not live up to their obligations to their own citizens.

    Where we agree is on immigrants who make no effort at even minimal assimilation. Here in Minnesota, we have a large population of Somali refugees in Minneapolis. Some of them want help but complain that the government spies on them. Needless to say, the government does spy on them–for very good reasons. They should police their own community instead of complaining.

  186. Hell, Rebel I’m crabby all the time. lol. It’s just a political football and no matter how it gets handled or even if nothing is done at all, all I know is it is costing Americans big bucks and a little gratitude would go a long way. I mean, they are blatently breaking the law even showing up here and then they act like we’ve got a lot of nerve being offended by it.

  187. Well you have prompted me to come clean with my current health report. I will be needing a defibrillator in my chest. When the two grafts went down, my heart muscle was damaged. My Ejection Fraction only went up 1 point. It will never return to normal again as I have heart damage. It is now 31 and patients with EFs below 35 are considered high risk for cardiac arrest. They are considered candidates for defibs. At the moment I am on time release nitro to get as much blood and oxygen flow to my heart as possible until my evaluation appt with specialist, which is June 1, but my cardiologist says it’s a formality. I meet the criteria. I can choose not to do this but I run the risk of cardiac arrest, which may or may not happen at any time. And if there’s nobody there with a defib machine when it happens, I am permanently dead. So I opted to take the defib, which will intervene should a cardiac event attempt to occur.

    It all reminds me of Weekend At Bernie’s but hey I guess it beats sitting around waiting to drop dead. It’s the way it is and the way it’s going to be.

  188. Stop worrying about Carly, she’s going to have as much pull as a rubber band beyond the choir. She’s a footnote and she won’t change a thing for Hillary except to look like she’s accommodating the Let’s Have a Cat Fight crowd. They’re so stupid and behind the times that they think using a womman to attack is a clever idea. It’s not. Hillary will ignore her and we should too.

  189. William, Burnett must have met CNNs criteria, which means she’s a good rape apologist, because nobody takes the side of rapists like CNN’s wimmin.

  190. Wow Uppity, so sorry. You have sure been through a lot. But I’m glad you’re doing everything your doctors are telling you to keep you “still standing”” 🙂

  191. Uppity, I am sorry to hear about your health concerns. You are very brave and good-natured about it, at least as I intuit you here. I do hope that things are monitored well, and that you can do most of the things which you like to do.

  192. Upps:
    We LOVE when you get crabby…keep it up!

  193. Don’t be sorry, I won’t have to worry about cardiac arrest if I have a defib implanted. It’s not the worst thing, I know several people who have them for years. Millions of people have defibs in their chests and they are not going to die of heart attacks because of them. Far as I can see, except for a period of time immediately after implant, my restrictions will be few. There are certain devices I have to make sure I don’t get too close to the device and there will never be an MRI, but pretty much life should continue on as usual. The device will also collect data on how things are going, if I had a heart event, things like that. It’s an electronically exquisite device from a techie standpoint. My alternative is to not get the ICD and spend the rest of my life worrying about if or when I drop dead. When you consider it that way, the ICD is not such a bad deal.

    The implant is not major surgery, it’s a couple of hours using local anesthetic. The only gross part is when they do put you out briefly to test the device by giving you a cardiac arrest under a controlled situation (yeah they kill you for a minute), to see if the device does its job and intervenes.

    Here’s what they look like:
    And here’s how they are implanted

  194. My Dad had a defib in his check for at least the last 15 years of his life. I took him in to get a new one put in once, and it was an easy surgery. My Dad always thought he would die from a heart attack (he had 3 heart attacks, a triple bypass, one of those roto-rooter procedures, and I don’t know what all), but the meds and diet and exercise kept his heart going, and he died at age 85 from Alzheimers and a lot of strokes. Anyway, it never bothered him (the defib) or gave him any trouble. They would check it with their computer every time he went to the doctor.

  195. Upps, agree with you and Brassy re: immigration. I think yes, they should just go ahead and give amnesty to the families that have been here and working for years on end. And yes to learning English, and other assimilation classes. I also wish they would slow down the immigration and be more careful about who they let in–the Boston Bombing attack really made me think about that. Most of the immigrants in my area seem like very nice families, but there should be some type of law and order for the process.

  196. P.S. am not remotely worried about Carly. I don’t like her, and would love to see her in a debate with Hillary, just for the laughs, but don’t think she has a chance in hell of going anywhere in this race. Its funny how the repubs put out their token woman and token black man on the same day. So predictable and lame.

  197. Uppity, you’ve been through the mill and you’re still standing and, most importantly still crabby.

  198. Sue, I obviously have a very high Crabiosity Quotient.

  199. Socal we do have strong immigration laws and they always worked well…..until several presidents decided we should ignore them so we could get ourselves some nice cheap labor for big companies, and for rich people who need nannies and gardeners. Our Immigration laws have been ignored by Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama, respectively. It’s really easy to accomplish, just cut the border protection budgets and hobble the border agents’ authority and ability to stop illegal crossings. Make it so they can’t possibly succeed. Through all these years, despots have learned that they can also ship all their mentally ill and criminals to our shores. That’s what Castro did. He threw them all on boats to wash up on beaches behind homes in Miami. The rule was, if you survived the trip, and if your feet touched our shores, you could stay. It was meant for the poor Cubans who tried to escape that crackpot, but instead he found a way to benefit as well.

  200. Yes, the whole thing is insane. And financed by taxpayers to help the corps, as you said.

  201. Here’s yet another testimony to the disgusting way industries have polluted our waters. Soon we will no longer have anything safe to eat between Monsanto, oil corporations that get away with destroying our waters after paying off politicians,”farm raised” fish that are crammed in tanks and eat each other’s crap, and then some escape to contaminate wild fish. This bass was caught in the susquehanna river in PA, along with an extra snack attached to him: A confirmed cancerous tumor.

  202. Uppity Woman, on May 6, 2015 at 4:25 PM said:

  203. As much as one knows about human nature, it is still hard to grasp the miindset of the executives of corporations who pollute the air and water, and ravage the land. Do they simply value some short-term wealth over the well-being of the human race, and our precious planet? Are they twisted souls who actually hate humanity? Why would someone spend his or her life trying to find ways to deplete the earth’s food supply and natural resources, and then in spendng immense amounts to insure that legislators are elected who will do nothing to impede it?

    In California, a liberal state, we had some initiative on the ballot a couple of years ago which would require companies to declare if any foodstuff was genetically modified. Monsanto spent about $70 million to dupe voters into narrowly defeating it. I continue to believe that the Democrats could and shoud run on a strong environmental platform, and vow to curb the behaviors of these dreadful companies. One can debate about budget matters or social issues all day, and they aren’t a thousandth as important as trying to save the planet and the food supply.

  204. I have never been so mortified and embarrassed as I was the day my mother posted a meme on Facebook that said “My ancestors came here legally.”

    I almost unfriended my own mother. Her ancestors (who also happen to be mine) did indeed come here legally. However, exactly what the illegal immigrants who are coming here now do is how my ancestors came here. It simply was not illegal then.

    This nation’s best kept open secret is immigration. We attract the best and brightest from all over the world, the people with the initiative, smarts, and all around moxie to figure out how to come from nothing, get here, and make a better life for themselves and their families. Immigrants built this country.

    Some immigrants come here and are a drain on the system. Most come here and enhance it. I blame any immigration failure on OUR inability or unwillingness to assimilate the new people.

  205. Sophie, what exactly is our failure? How are we unwilling to assimilate them?

  206. Sophie, good point that we get a lot of brilliant people here from other countries, and I’ve had many of them as neighbors. My area has a lot of other cultures and I haven’t noticed any problems with assimilation, but this is a fortunate area, beautiful, low crime, low pollution, and its generally a happy place. I do think there might be more than just some immigrants who are a drain though. The food bank I volunteer at serves mostly immigrants, most with large families, most that only speak Spanish. i am often carrying heavy bags of groceries to their cars for these young women (like 20s), since they can’t carry the bags and babies at the same time, and am often amazed that they will have much nicer cars that I have, huge new or newish suv’s a lot of the time. That is perplexing. We have quite a bit of low income housing here, and its very nice looking. Our town bought a motel and uses it for vets and disabled, they give homeless people rooms in a another motel (the city reimburses the motel). We have a couple of schools that are almost all attended by immigrants. So I really don’t know how my area could do more, and our taxes here are sky high. I love my town and my state and am glad that we don’t have tons of people starving and on the street. But we do a lot for them. The payback is seeing many brilliant young people in lakers college. They are usually very nice and willing to help other students, and laker has gotten a lot of help from these immigrant and 1st gen kids, especially with high tech stuff. But, the immigration system is far from perfect and I wish we could keep out any future boston bomber types.

    btw, Fredster has a great post up on Widders, about mass hysteria in Texas. They seem to think the gub’mint is coming for them. Hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

  207. William, I was so upset that the food labeling bill didn’t pass. I don’t understand how people cannot even question whether their is a correlation between the country being flooded with frankenfood and then mass obesity and chronic disease.

  208. Upps, the fish problem is getting worse.

  209. It’s not our job to assimilate anybody. It’s their job to assimilate. I am really sick of taking the blame for everybody’s bullshit. Everyone here has ancestors who came here, and they assimilated. They brought their own translators to gvt offices too. We didn’t have to translate everything into 20 languages for everybody. And I’m sorry Sophie, I don’t know how your ancestors could have come here by crossing a border without immigration knowing. For starters, I would bet they came here by ship. I still have the immigration papers of my grandparents and copies of their names on manifestos. And immigration knew where they were at all times. They became citizens and nobody held their hands to do it. They learned English and nobody took responsibility for that but themselves. They assimilated. yes they maintained many of their own cultural traditions but they didn’t expect the rest of the country to honor them like they did. I remember my grandfather saying how he thought Americas roads were paved with gold and then he found out they weren’t paved with gold, in fact they weren’t paved at all and he was expected to pave them. lol.

    I never implied that smart people don’t come here, not even close. In fact, smart people are recruited to come here by companies. My complaint is our borders are inundated with illegal entrants, some of them very ill, some of them contagious and some of them picking our produce, most all of them very poor and just ripe to be exploited. And plenty of them come here and pay to steal identities too. And far too many come here to have their babies on our soil so they can benefit from public assistance. I’m sorry but there is something horribly wrong with this complete lack of regard for our immigration laws and a certain kind of disdain for the country they wanted to come to so badly, they hopped a border illegally.

    The immigrants of your ancestors generation did indeed build this country. I don’t see the people hopping the border as a whole improving much. They cost us a whole lot more than we get in return on investment, so to speak. The campaign always revolves around “Poor us!”. In fact, the standard of living has gone down in the country because they are willing to work illegally for the equivalent of a bag of rice. Companies will claim Americans won’t do that work. Truth is, they would if they were paid a decent wage for it. Walmart has been caught with child labor working with heavy equipment. And they got away with a slap on the hand. And to make matters worse, the scum of the earth can hop over that border from ANY country and lob bombs at us when the spirit moves them. God knows how many of them have infiltrated our country just waiting to blow somebody up.

    No, America has not failed these people. Their native countries failed them.

  210. William I remember what Monsanto did in California very well, the bastards. Their argument is there is no “proof” that GMO harms anyone. Fact is, the data is being collected by shoving their shit down our throats, in some cases without us knowing. By the time the real damage to humans is discovered, Monsanto will already own most of the worlds food supply rights, that’s what they are trolling for. And of course, their power will ensure nobody really knows they are killers. Truth is their CEO eats organic.

    But I don’t blame Monsanto. I blame my government for continuing to take their bribes, placing their people in positions of power, (See USDA). I blame our government for not stopping them the way Europe’s leaders consistently do. They have been thrown out of third world countries, for chrissakes and here they are running roughshod over America, force-feeding us frankenfood==and suing small farmers when their seeds “accidentally” blow over to their land and germinate. It is all so sinister and it is clear to me that our government leaders are part and parcel to the entire travesty of it all.

    We are all “Roundup Ready” now. We’ve ingested enough of their roundup ready foods. I remember a time when Roundup was considered toxic. Like mercury. But that’s another story. I remember when they made a huge fuss over mercury in thermometers. Now they force us to buy light bulbs with mercury in them and suddenly have amnesia…

    And funny how so much of our citizens no longer respond to antibiotics, considering they have been ingesting them in their food and are now resistant. Lots of death will result from this.

  211. Yes it is getting worse, socal. Every single fresh water fishing waterway in New York comes with a warning right now.

    As for food label laws, they should have been passed at the federal level LONG ago. But it’s not happening because they are all one big happy family now. States can’t handle Monsanto, they are far too big now. This is a job for a president and congress. Yeah. We wish.

  212. I said unable OR unwilling
    There are communities that are unable to assimilate others and there are those that are unwilling.

    Of course, there are communities that are both, like say, Brewster, NY. Large Guatemalan population but the locals call them Mexicans. Unwilling AND unable. Horrendous posturing every single election over this.

    By assimilate, I simply mean being neighborly, not codependent. Not antagonistic or hostile.

    My ancestors did not have to worry about crossing a border without anyone knowing because the front foor was wide open. We changed those laws since then and not for pure and wholesome reasons.

    The people hopping the border are improving the place. Some are feeding the nation. At least one thing most Americans ate today was picked, tended, or processed by someone illegal.
    Edit: Not all of them. But not none of them.

  213. I don’t agree with you Sophie. My grandparents had to have sponsors, the door wasn’t wide open… and they weren’t welcomed at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

  214. Exactly, imust. Sponsors were required. They arrived by ship, not hopping over a fence in the dark. And then they met immigration awaiting them. And yeah, they had a rough time of it, being Italian and all…and they didn’t come whining to the government for ANY kind of aid. They bartered and worked and helped each other. And nobody translated a thing for them. “Welfare” was considered a disgrace, a failure. Many of them came here with skills. They were the carpenters, masons, bricklayers who helped build…..pretty much everything. It wasn’t just about being smart, it was about being skilled, and about being willing to work toward your own goals no matter how long it took you. To them, the American Dream meant you did it yourself.

  215. Exactly, imust. Sponsors were required. They arrived by ship, not hopping over a fence in the dark. And then they met immigration awaiting them. And yeah, they had a rough time of it, being Italian and all…and they didn’t come whining to the government for ANY kind of aid. They bartered and worked and helped each other. And nobody translated a thing for them. “Welfare” was considered a disgrace, a failure. Many of them came here with skills. They were the carpenters, masons, bricklayers who helped build…..pretty much everything. It wasn’t just about being smart, it was about being skilled, and about being willing to work toward your own goals no matter how long it took you. To them, the American Dream meant you did it yourself.

    And no immigrants came here until they were told they could come, and often times they left families behind until were proven able to take care of them here. Their kids couldn’t speak English and learned it pretty fast when they got to school. School was taught in English. Period. My parents grew up in non-English speaking family, yet they succeeded in life here and spoke impeccable English. No government helped them do that.

  216. Funny but sad story. My grandfather helped build a dam that is invaluable today. He told me that when a worker fell into the concrete that was poured, they just kept working. But if a horse fell in, they tried to fish it out. Horses were valuable. Immigrants, not so much…

  217. Picking produce is not really improving anything, Sophie. Produce was picked before 17 million people hopped a border. But big agra figured out they could do it cheaper if all those people hopped the border. Cheaper for them, but not for the consumer. Moreover, there are no health standards. During the time of legal immigration, a person with TB would be quarantined, not sent to pick lettuce. How is this an improvement?

    During last century’s immigration, many people came here. We wanted them to come because we needed them to build the country’s infrastructure. Do we really need 17 million to hide , drive without licenses or insurance, work under the table to tend rich people’s gardens, work night shift at Walmarts and pick fruit and veggies while using our health care system and shutting down our maternity wards because they pay nothing and nobody is to ask questions when they show up? Somebody has to pay for that in the form of colossal hospital bills. That would be you and me. Especially me lately.I know I am being blunt here, and that is because there is no advantageous reason why millions of people have been added to our burden for no real helpful purpose to the USA other than to cost the middle class a good deal of money and lower their standard of living. I guess once we are all poor, everybody will be happy.

    As for the hostility, I think they harbor most of it, as if we have a lot of nerve not fixing their lives for them or being put out that they are here illegally. I think many Americans resent the situation because they know if they break laws, they go to jail. Also, you have no idea how lucky we are we don’t live near a border. Talk to Americans who do and you can TOUCH their fear as people show up in their yards and heads stuck on posts. People are terrorized by desparados who have nothing to lose. To live in a border town is to KNOW fear.

    There are millions of latinos here who are very productive and very neighborly, and many are also very successful. Funny how not sneaking into the country and hiding in shadows opens doors for you. I am godmother to one of them. Her mother spoke NO English but she went to school and learned it, excelled, got student loans and scholarships, and is a bilingual endodontist today. That’s what legal immigration allows your children to do in America. That’s what a Dream Act is supposed to be. Many people who came here the proper way resent illegal immigration, not hard to understand why is it?

  218. ….waiting for Sophie to yell at me…

  219. ……..putting on my protective helmet, polishing my shield. ….

  220. I don’t think she’ll yell at you…..

  221. —-hides behind imust…

  222. Wow! Missing interesting conversation (argument?). Couldn’t access your site all morning on my phone, Up. Don’t know why.

    If Sophie won’t yell at you, I can pinch hit! Actually, I think you both may be correct. There once was a time anyone could come here legally. But when nativism became a political force and anti-immigrant feeling was high in the late 19th century and early 20th, the government began enforcing standards. Immigrants needed more than just the price of crossing.

    My approach is not to generalize. I think even some who now come illegally try to do the right thing otherwise. And some take advantage of everything and everyone, including the taxpayers.

    I still think it’s a challenge we need to address. Unfortunately, the current Congress would prefer to demagogue the issue than solve it.

  223. The environmental and food safety issues should be a major part of Hillary’s campaign, and those of congressional candidates. I think that most people can understand such things, and that they want their food to be safe, and global warming arrested. Oh, of course the other side will scream about “costing jobs,” and “raising taxes,” but these are still good issues to run on. It is not one of those, “well, my side will do this, and the other side will do that.” matters. The other side will do absolutely nothing. If anyone has even a small interest in the issue of protecting their health and that of their family, raising the issue to the voters can only help our side. More importantly, it could give us a mandate to do something about it.

    Democrats need an issue which can somehow change the balance of power in Congress and in state legislatures .Budgets and social issues won’t do it. And we need some brave journalists to unearth data about these issues, and then for them to get major traction. But this campaign cycle is crucial, and we cannot just sit there and say, “well, I guess the Republican corporatists and nutcases will be dominating the Congress for the next few decades.” The issue which might turn things to our side is actually the environment. Budget issues wax and wane; people can’t figure them out. The Republicans do nothing to help the environment; the Democrats will. Run on that.

  224. Just a bit of food for thought, Rebel. I don’t think the words “Come here illegally” and “Want to do the right thing” go very well together. If you can’t trust a man in one thing, you can’t trust him in the other. It’s like asking, How many lies does it take to make a liar?”. The answer is One. People who deliberately break the law by crossing a border are not interested in doing the Right thing. They are interested in doing what suits them. Just my crabby opinion.

    Before the late 1800s, the country was practically empty, I mean how many Mayflower people were there? just joking. But suffice it to say there was…..uh…..plenty of room for anybody, lots of expansion, and the rest of the people here weren’t expected to take care of them, provide them with housing, doctors, and food stamps. There just weren’t a whole lot of laws short of whomever could shoot faster won the duel/showdown. And maybe by the late 1800s they figured out that a lot of crazy and contagious people were coming here endangering lives. In any event, laws were made for a reason.

  225. William, I think food safety is a CRITICAL issue, as is pollution of our waterways. I do, however, think Global Warming will go the way of the Bomb Shelter Scare, Y2k and the missing Al Gore. But not before trillions of dollars are made milking it. As far back as I can remember, Americans have been deliberately made to fear Something Horrible that was essentially bullshit. Save The Dinosaurs! Oops, nope. But if they lived today, those of us they haven’t eaten yet would be yelling about how they might become extinct and looking to throw money into preventing it.

  226. Come to think of it, we haven’t seen or heard much from Al Gore since it snowed in Copenhagen. He didn’t show up there either, I guess the snow was too high to walk thru. Shortly after that, they changed the name “Global Warming” to “Climate Change”.

  227. Missing interesting conversation (argument?)

    I swear I just cannot get you guys mad at me no matter how hard I try.

  228. I agree people who come here illegally are interested in doing what suits them. They’re interested in surviving and having their families survive. If I had to, I’d do it too. Maybe even you! I thank all the gods, known and unknown, that I was born here and never have to make such a hard choice. (Great book title!)

    I don’t think we’ll ever see this quite the same way. But get mad at you over it? We disagree, although not entirely. The world would be a better place if more people learned how to disagree without going all postal.

  229. I thank all the gods, known and unknown, that I was born here and never have to make such a hard choice.

    I want this book! Let’s write it right here! It would be fun!

    I’ll start. For example: Chapter One: I thank all the gods, known and unknown, that I was born here and never have to make the hard choices of what I can and can’t do with my own body. I’ve got Congress to do that for me!

    Your turn!

  230. Before the late 1800s, the country was practically empty, I mean how many Mayflower people were there? just joking. But suffice it to say there was…..uh…..plenty of room for anybody, lots of expansion

    The country was chock a block with the descendants of Mongols.

  231. Damned Mongols!!!

  232. Uppity, I wish I could be as optimistic on the global warming. I have lived in California all my life, and I certainly know the weather patterns. The last two years have been so different. Hot spells in December, January,virtually every month. A week or two each month with temperatures in the high 80’s. It used to be that there was maybe one hot period for a week or so in the winter, and the rest of it was very pleasant.

    I am not an expert in the statistics; I try not to read too many of them, as it is so unnerving. I know that the world average temperatures were the highest last year that they were since this data was kept. The California drought is the worst in history. Another year of this, and we may lose much of our fruit crop, which actually is one of the best advantages to living here. I saw a speech that Bill Clinton recently gave at Georgetown; he said that he thought the world might have one more chance to do something about this. He said that he thought that CA was the canary in the coal mine, the test of how bad it might get, and what effects it might have. I really do hope that Hillary makes the environment, in all its important aspects, a centerpiece of her campaign. And if I decide to put up the money to attend a private fund-raiser, where you actually get to talk to her for a few minutes, I will express that.

  233. I’ll start. For example: Chapter One: I thank all the gods, known and unknown, that I was born here and never have to make the hard choices of what I can and can’t do with my own body. I’ve got Congress to do that for me!
    Your turn!

    Chapter Two: I thank all the gods, known and unknown, that I was born here and never have to make the hard choices of what I can and can’t do with my vote. I’ve got the media and the DNC to do that for me!
    Your turn!

  234. Sorry–I didn’t answer sooner because I was working (because I am the descendant of anti-welfare immigrants).

    Imust and Uppity, your ancestors must be fairly recent (like since the 50s and 60s). Sponsorship wasn’t required when my great grand folks came (just before the turn of the century–the previous one, not the recent one).

    Yes, they came by ship. Likely because there was no other way to get here from Italy. That shouldn’t earn them points because they didn’t walk over a border. And no, they did not have to wait until they were told they could come.

    They also came here uneducated and dirt poor–many without any skills. At immigration, they were asked if they had any skills and everyone pretty much said yes. They were not asked for proof of their work history. They did have to submit to a medical exam to make sure they weren’t bringing infectious diseases in (or weren’t mentally ill). Most left their families behind because either they came here to work and send the money home or waited until they were starting to “make it” before sending for the rest. Often, it was all the money the family had to pay for one male’s passage here.

    Yes, they did work their asses off and they did learn the language (most of them, not all of them). There was a built in incentive to learn the language because at the time, there were immigrants coming from many countries so there was a competition to become American faster.

    I don’t think it’s fair to paint every single illegal immigrant as a lazy welfare recipient. Most of them are working their asses off too. The examples you can find are the exception and not the rule.

    P.S. The Mayflower people didn’t just come and populate the nation with their progeny. People kept coming and coming right after them. Drive through New England towns someday–there are signs like Fairfield: settled 1639 or Fairfield: Incorporated 1666.

    population of the us in 1800: 2,500,000
    population of the us in 1800: 5,308,483
    population of the us in 1890: 50,189,209
    population of the us in 1920: 106,500,000

  235. Nope, not recent, and they did have to have sponsors. I’ve done some research on the ship they came over in and who their sponsors were, etc.

  236. Interesting Sophie because my Grandparents on both sides came to this country from Sweden, and Germany and they all had sponsors and jobs waiting for them once they were released through Ellis Island and immigration services. They had to maintain employment and apply for citizenship after they could speak enough English and pass a civics exam. I have their paperwork and documentation . Also I have the copies of the cities history that claims my Grandfather helped found and build that city , a rather huge one in California. They did not just walk into this country because there were laws prohibiting it even then. Now we all have to press one for English, our students are being dumbed down so we can teach non English students and our country is turning into a third world country. If your country you are escaping from is so bad then why come here and try to change this one into the one you ran from and why fly the flag of the country you ran from and demand we do too ? Live here in these States that are close to Mexico and see what I mean. They do not care for your property or you. They are stealing cars in droves, being arrested in hordes for drinking and driving you name it. I am not against LEGAL immigration but these border hoppers are nothing but bad and the majority of Mexicans here legally and for generations will vote for anyone that is for sealing the borders and deportation.
    My property in Bisbe AZ , a place I wanted to retire is a shithole now seriously and I mean it is worthless with the human feces and garbage strewn all over it. I have not gone back down there in 7 years now and for all I care the state can have it. Yea I bought it and intended to live there and have my dogs and animals now I will not ever go near it. Ask the folks about their ranch neighboring my place. Oh yea you can’t they finally left it too. It is camp Mexicanna. They crapped everywhere, came in killed his chickens stole water and anything else not nailed down and if it was nailed down they stole the hammer to remove the nails and took it. I am dead serious here and anyone supporting amnesty and not sealing the borders is never getting my vote.

  237. I’m sure I read that around the turn of the century, when they built Ellis, there were doctors there and the immigrants getting off the ships were checked for tb and other communicable diseases, and if they had them, they were shipped back. My most recent immigrant was my Greek grandfather & grandmother, who came here in the early 20s. At Ellis, they changed their long Greek names to shortened Americanized versions and those were the names they kept. They hustled over to Chicago where they had relatives (sponsors) and stayed with them til Grandpa got his own grocery business going (he made wine on the sly). On my mom’s side, I have a family tree that begins with the Bavarian’s arrival here in 1690, the English and Irish in the 1700s and then Cherokee Nation. i have several Canadian friends, all came here legally, all had to have a job waiting for them, all eventually became citizens. My favorite job was at a company owned by a German company. They were not allowed to live here. They were allowed to send a man to run the company for a year, during which time he had to find an American to manage it. The manager was only allowed to bring his wife and baby if she got an education visa! They were wonderful to work for, generous, and kind. They eventually found a sexist slob to take over the management. I ended up having laker and leaving (they told me I could stay and bring him every day!?!? And a year later, being unhappy with the situation of not being able to have their own manager run it, even though they were providing good jobs to the community and good healthy products that the public wanted, they sold the company. So I think our immigration is pretty screwed up. If that company had stayed, I would probably still be there. It was a perfect job for me. But no, we can’t have decent, educated job creators immigrate here. Not enough room for them.

  238. Here is some info about immigration from wiki, which shows it wasn’t always a big open door:

    “The peak year of European immigration was in 1907, when 1,285,349 persons entered the country.[21] By 1910, 13.5 million immigrants were living in the United States.[22] In 1921, the Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924. The 1924 Act was aimed at further restricting immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe, particularly Jews, Italians, and Slavs, who had begun to enter the country in large numbers beginning in the 1890s.”

    I also read that it was very difficult for European Jews to come here in the 30s and 40s, and that they had to have two sponsors, and a lot of documents which made it very difficult for them to escape Nazi Germany and Nazi-held Europe. Here is what wiki says”

    “Immigration patterns of the 1930s were dominated by the Great Depression. In the final prosperous year, 1929, there were 279,678 immigrants recorded,[24] but in 1933, only 23,068 came to the U.S.[15] In the early 1930s, more people emigrated from the United States than to it.[25] The U.S. government sponsored a Mexican Repatriation program which was intended to encourage people to voluntarily move to Mexico, but thousands were deported against their will.[26] Altogether about 400,000 Mexicans were repatriated.[27] Most of the Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis and World War II were barred from coming to the United States.[28] In the post-war era, the Justice Department launched Operation Wetback, under which 1,075,168 Mexicans were deported in 1954.”

    Interesting stuff. Note it says during the early 30s, more people emigrated from the US than to it!

  239. Nooooooooo. My ancestors were NOT recent. My parents were born here, but their parents came from Italy. If my grandparents had come here in the 50s my parents would be as old as I am now and I’d be one young puppy. And like, imust’s ancestors, mine had a sponsor and a job waiting. It was a requirement. No sponsor? No deal!

    One thing I do paint every single illegal immigrant as is a veteran lawbreaker who should have been deported the moment he/she made it across the border. If we had followed our own laws, there wouldn’t be 17,000,000 of them here right now.

  240. Utah i am so glad you stopped by because you are more crabby than I am and I feel better about my own crabbiosity quotient. lol

  241. Hillary’s plan in 2008 was a path to citizenship that included learning English and paying fines. She was for a secure border, but felt it could be done “smarter” using new technology. I don’t see where she’s changed her views on that. The only thing I think she’s changed on is that she now thinks Drivers Licenses for illegal immigrants is a good idea, where in 2008, she was against it. As I recall, she felt the D/L would be risky for the illegal immigrants, not that she thought it would be bad for the US.

    She still seems concerned about the risks to families, in the case of deporting DREAMers and their parents and in terms of detention centers. She is, as always has been, pro-family. I think her speaking about possibly using executive orders to get reforms through, like Obama, is what makes people think she’s changed her positions.

  242. It was the Immigration Act of 1924 where they introduced quotas, that limited the number of people we would take from particular countries. Sponsorship was a backdoor loophole to the quotas since you could sponsor someone from a country even if we already passed our quota on that country.

  243. Curious why no one here is arguing against the other side of immigration reform: allowing corporations to pretend we have a shortage of skilled tech workers in the country when all we have is a shortage of skilled technical workers willing to work for peanuts.

  244. I read that Hillary was in the Silicon valley fundraising, and that the Silicon folks were hot on immigration issues because they felt that there weren’t enough skilled tech workers to fill the need there.

    Clinton, who called earlier this week for a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, is expected to return to the immigration issue on Friday before a crowd that will likely include a high percentage of technology players.

    Immigration represents the top political issue for many Silicon Valley executives, who would like to hire more foreign engineers, data scientists, and other highly educated workers due to what they say is a shortage of U.S. workers in those fields.

  245. Yeah imust, Bill Gates and Apple too….are ‘hot’ on importing all those programmers from India on the comparative cheap. There are plenty of techies, programmers, software engineers out of work. I personally know a few. These guys are despicable. And they’re hardly interested in what’s walking across our borders.

    To add insult to injury, FoxxCom builds all their products. That’s a chinese company. Despicable. And they use child labor. I have some photos of their workplace somewhere. They also had to put nets outside the windows at one time because they had a benefit of 19k if someone died at work, and people were jumping.

  246. Curious why no one here is arguing against the other side of immigration reform: allowing corporations to pretend we have a shortage of skilled tech workers in the country when all we have is a shortage of skilled technical workers willing to work for peanuts.

    I just saw this. So I accidentally fulfilled your wish!

  247. In the end, it doesn’t really matter what anyone thinks about immigration, nothing will EVER happen unless both sides agree to secure the borders first. I personally am all for electric fences.

  248. Yes, corp greed is at the bottom of a lot of our immigration problems. I also know a lot of people in the computer fields who are out of work. in my town, there are two enclaves of Indian immigrants packed into older, cheap apts. I lived in one of those apts when I was 18. Anyway, the Indian people are nice.

  249. Always remember: WHen left on their honor, corporations have no honor.

  250. And the funny thing is…..we stand in long lines to be the first to buy their shiny new, latest edition products.

  251. On another note, likely one we can all agree on, Kathleen Turner was on Chris Hayes last night, warning about these personhood for fetuses votes.

  252. Good for Turner! She’s really up on what’s happening in states. Important. I thought it was very poignant of her to mention that they want to mention a fertilized egg in the constitution ….and women are still yet to be mentioned. Telling. Very telling.

    Yup imust, we line up. We can’t help ourselves any longer.

  253. Thanks, SophieCT: Turner was terrific on that little pisher’s show.
    I admire her so much.

  254. If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

  255. Screeech!
    (New post up.)

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