Tired of Being Polite

Tess Rafferty gives a powerful, and for me, a cathartic statement in the Aftermath of the Presidential Election. I hope you feel the same way.

Tess Rafferty is a TV writer, comic and author. Twitter: @TessRafferty

Steve Cohen is a director for film and TV. Twitter: @flamdiddle

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432 Responses

  1. Wow.

  2. I don’t think I will ever vote again y’all. I can’t bare being a number for the Democratic Party, trying to fake excitement for someone who isn’t Hillary in 2020. Dragging some mediocre bro approved candidate over the finish line. I think people are really underestimating the consequences of this election and since the votes don’t really count this election mine isn’t up for grabs in the future.

  3. wow, indeed.

    Hey Sophie, thanks for tweeting my line for the ESQ article (The alternate title of this article should be ‘How the Republican candidate became a malware for Russia to infect America.’ ). Also liked the two threads you had in there with OK guy JuanPa and Audra D.

    Seagrl, yeah it is quite depressing and dispiriting.

  4. I hear ya Seagrl. I’m still having a hard time wrapping my brain around what happened. It’s hard to imagine ever feeling any excitement or passion for a candidate again. Hillary’s message in her speech to the Children’s Defense Fund told us to not give up, it wasn’t about her. One thing for sure, Hillary has always been a bigger person than me! I honestly don’t know how she does it. For now, I know that at least I will vote, and in that small way, hope that I can make a difference.
    From HRC’s speech:

    So we have work to do, and for the sake of our children and our families and our country, I ask you to stay engaged, stay engaged on every level. We need you. America needs you. Your energy, your ambition, your talent. That’s how we get through this. That’s how we help to make our contributions to bend the arc of the moral universe toward justice. I know this isn’t easy, I know that over the past week, a lot of people have asked themselves whether America is the country we thought it was. The divisions laid bare by this election run deep, but please listen to me when I say this. America is worth it. Our children are worth it. Believe in our country, fight for our values and never, ever give up

  5. SNL completely nails CNN to its core:

  6. Here’s my new rule: I am not voting for a penis until we get a woman president. And not some half ass loser piece of shit like Jill Stein or Carly Fiorina. A REAL candidate.

  7. Sophie, you can add Tulsi Gabbord to that list as well.

  8. I don’t want Warren. Anyone who the bros deem cool and non threatening doesn’t sit well with me. As much as I couldn’t stand MO in 08 I would vote for her. The speeches she gave for Hillary and against the predator elect were really moving. I felt she just “got it” about Hillary after she got to know her as SOS

  9. But I don’t see her running so I will abstain from now on. It’s Hillary or hell for me, literally.

  10. Tess Raffety was tremendous in that clip.
    She speaks for me and I no longer give a damn about the trash morons that voted for the KKK’s choice for president.
    And I really regret paying good money for “Hillbilly Elegy” by J. D. Vance.

  11. imust, I’m going to cross post this over at The Widdershins.

  12. SNL completely nails CNN to its core

    ———-
    When SNL makes it a skit that the cable news stations are just giving a free pass to the AltRight Trump mob…that’s when we know how truly screwed we are.

    All the shit that has gone down from this election and all the comments about how nothing can be done about it…………………is more than phucking depressing.

    Either we can do something, or people have just accepted that it will be a shitstorm and there is nothing we can do about it.

  13. imust, I tweeted that out to some of my Twitter friends who have vastly larger following bases.

    That was short and right to the point. And yes, I too am at the “I don’t give a fuck who’s running anymore” stage because I know my vote does not matter as much as a voter in a racist red state.

  14. Imusthave,

    I can’t listen to that Hillary speech. I really can’t hear anything from Hillary. My heart breaks for her and us. Of course it isn’t about just one person Hillary, but YOU were fighting for all of us. And I won’t see a better candidate in my lifetime. I wish we still had months left, still could campaign for Hillary. If someone like Hillary can’t breakthrough, I’m more than positive no other woman is breaking through that thing anytime soon. And it won’t be the same if they do. Hillary’s fight was OUR fight, her struggle was OUR struggle, her grace & strength is what WE wished we could have when faced with attacks and hurdles.

  15. Those signs at the planned parenthood rally “I can’t believe I still have to protest this sh*t” seems really poignant. What a wasteful 4-8 years we have ahead of us

  16. All I can say is that if I was a lot prettier in drag and whole lot smarter, I would try to pass myself off as Tess Rafferty. She speaks for me.

    Sweet Sue, as for Hillbilly Elegy, as someone who grew up in Appalachia, Mr. Vance’s book is a tale of child neglect and endangerment not a political prescription. I grew up knowing no family who could have gotten away with his family’s lifestyle without intervention. His smug conservatism of bootstrap birthright is so conveniently perfect in its timing as to be suspicious.

  17. As a lesbian, I just want to put this out there. It is not even just “marginalized” groups the far-right is going after….even AMY GRANT is paying a price for supposedly not being Christian enough.

    WTF, Amy Grant?

    http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/religion/2016/11/02/amy-grant-says-she-accepts-lifeways-decision-not-sell-new-album/93173440/?hootPostID=759e4d5973925db20af524f5ccf3525f

  18. His smug conservatism of bootstrap birthright is so conveniently perfect in its timing as to be suspicious.
    Right on the money as usual, Prolix.

  19. imust, I love that, thanks so much for posting it.

    Also, loved the SNL bit on cnn. It was totally true and I hope it makes the dunces at cnn feel like shit. Like they’ve made us feel over and over.

  20. I have one of those “I can’t believe I still have to protest this shit” signs on this blog’s sidebar for years now. So what’s changed?

  21. Awesome, just awesome. I can’t tell you how many times this week I have had to explain to people that voting for Trump makes you racist, bigoted and sexist. Years from now historians will look back at this time as the lowest point in American history. We that fought the fight and continue to do so are on the side of right. The rest will be condemned.

  22. NP pm 317–it’s a great line.

  23. I am going to make a bumper sticker that says: ‘If only Hillary had been perfect,…’ I am so sick of living in this America. We are so screwed and we did it to ourselves. It is going to be a long 4 years and as everyone here has said, I don’t see anyone ‘saving’ us in 4 years. I disagree with those that think MO is the answer. Honestly, don’t think she wants it, but that could change in a few years. More importantly, Obama and no Trump have become president because of speeches. Very different speeches, but in some ways just the polar opposite. Michelle would be the same, She has never had political office, etc. Let’s get back to having a president that has experience doing the job. (Not sure we should even bother with debates any more… )Hillary would have been an amazing president and would have accomplished so much, even with the Rs attacking her every step of the way. We lost such an opportunity.

  24. Sophie, yeah, I know it is a great line which is why I bragged about it to my hubs 😉 when I wrote it; too bad 140 chars can’t leave enough space for crediting. If I were writing a blog I would use my line for the title to discuss that article.

  25. seagrl, you speak for me with all your comments. But mark my words, any female presidential candidate has to have the blessing of the media before succeeding. They were salivating over Warren and I think they will prop her up in 2020 and if it is against the buffoon and we still have a country, what do we do? We will cross that bridge when it happens.

  26. Thread I saw on Sophie’s twitter TL last night. Fantastic conversation/discussion between JuanPA and others. As I was reading what he wrote, I was reminded of Tennessee Williams play ‘A Streetcar named Desire’ and then saw at least one other person saying these are all Blanche Dubois.

  27. Here is the other thread on what should the journolists call the alt-right Trump supporters. Hillary broke the ice by giving that speech on the white nationalist/neo-nazi alignment from Russia to our doorstep. But the media is scared and lazy and would not pick up on that. She warned us.

  28. We just need to give it up. We all know Hillary was the best candidate, but it’s over. The asshole-dickhead, racist, pussy grabber won. I can’t watch Hillary’s last speech, it hurts too much. What I want to know is WTF do we do now? I’ve always worried about retirement and now I have Ryan threatening Medicare. Two of my closest friends are fighting a battle with cancer. One that they are both most likely going to lose. This election has changed everything regarding healthcare and watching my friends go through this with GOOD insurance makes me think if I get sick or something, should I just throw myself off a fucking bridge? I can’t afford treatment in a vouchered retirement so again, wtf are we supposed to do now?

  29. DailyPoooooma, Alessandro,

    You prove every day why so many women cannot stand you. I’m sure this holds true in real life as well. You simply cannot stop attempting to trivialize women and tell them what to do, simply to validate your own mediocre self. It’s long been my guess, and the guess of several other bloggers who despise you as much as I do, that a woman left you and everybody knows why she left you. Except for Poor Victimized-By-Women You.

    I have you spammed by every single one of your screen names and every single one of your ridiculous websites. You are very impressed with yourself, unfortunately you have a hard time getting others to agree with how great you are. I thought the last ridiculous thing I saw you write, where you seriously announced that you would advise Hillary Clinton for a Million Dollars, was absolutely hilarious, so I can’t say you don’t provide comic relief now and then. Frankly, I’m surprised a guy like you isn’t impressed with Donald Trump. He’s full of shit too.

    I see daily in statistics you simply cannot stay away from this blog, you poor “victim” you.
    So I just want to remind you again that you are not welcome to comment here. Ever.

    And just so everyone can see what a misogynist sexist pig you really are, I am going to copy and post the first pukeworthy sentence of the spam you tried to post and won’t waste my time with the rest, where you attempt to BOSS US AROUND like we need your “Leadership”, woman-hater.

    I guess men are from mars, and women are from venus. The women want to talk about how they feel, the men want to fix what went wrong before Trump is inaugurated.

    Thanks for the petition link, Allesandro. Petitions have always shown themselves to be about about as helpful as a screen door in a submarine. Kind of like how helpful you are to women. And especially the one you just wrote. I see you’re aiming high looking for 100 siggies. Priceless. And speaking of “Feelings,” I feel you are one of the poorest excuses for a male example I have ever had the displeasure of encountering on the web. I am pleased to let you know I am not alone. I sincerely hope you have no daughters.

    You will NEVER make it to this blog again, so kindly find another woman to shove around and harass.

    On behalf of every women you have ever offended in every one of your screen names, and I know there are many: Go fuck yourself.

    Here’s an assignment for you. Remove me from that shitpile on your aggregator blog. I hope this clears up the potential of ever interacting with me or my beloved members again.

    K Thx Bai.

  30. Mods, if you see this crank in spam, his his IP address, which I will DM to you, do not EVER let him in, for it won’t be long before he insults the shit out of you whilst giving you his “expert” advice on simply everything, including what’s wrong with you women.

  31. Up, you rock! Thanks again for keeping the creeps out. Now more than ever. On petitions: I am always getting emails demanding that I sign some stupid petition. NOTHING ever comes of these petitions. It’s just a fund raising tool. They must think I’m stupid. I really love it when they start insulting me because I won’t sign their useless petition.

  32. For me, what Tess did was respond to the “we must not speak ill of the Trump voters” crowd, ie; the media and politicians. “We must give him a chance.”

    Ummm…no. As Hillary quoted Maya Angelou so many times, “When a person shows you who they are the first time, believe them.” That goes for Trump and anyone who voted for him.

  33. “watching my friends go through this with GOOD insurance makes me think if I get sick or something, should I just throw myself off a fucking bridge”

    Kim, it’s Medicare Plan F and we’re all enrolled.

  34. Sue, I know a senior who fell for that “Advantage” plan that makes premiums really cheap and includes drug plan and a partridge in a pear tree.

    Then she got really sick. It was a great plan when you only had to do minimum things, but landing in the hospital and having major surgery could break you, like it nearly broke her. Then to add insult to injury, she was told she cannot get a real supplement plan because she signed up for the Advantage plan for more than a year and now supplement companies can REJECT her for a policy…because she now has a preexisting condition. And so, she avoids the doctors and is terrified she will be in the hospital again and have surgery or multiple tests…. because of the coinsurance.

    People think medicare is a day at the beach. It’s FULL of land mines. And in the end it costs nearly as much as the insurance you had on single pay because you have to buy a drug plan and as good a supplement as you can possibly afford.

  35. NP pm 317–it’s a great line.

    Wish I could understand what people are saying on this blog half the time.

  36. Not sure Warren will be an improvement, unless you consider extremism in the other direction as a good thing.

    This country will never get anything done if we let the Alt Rt and Alt Lft take chances apiece undoing one mess and reinstating another mess.

    I LONG for all the moderates these two extremes threw out of office. Extremism is the path to destruction.

  37. Incidentally, Sue, I read that Ryan’s Kill Seniors Off While I Invest in Insurance Companies plan includes forbidding insurers from offering medicare supplements that cover EVERYTHING. He says that (his own mother notwithstanding I am sure) if Seniors have to pay out of their pockets it will make them more conservative regarding what they will let doctors do to them.

    Translation: I know I’m going to die because I can’t afford this surgery.

  38. I don’t have to give him a chance. At all. Nobody can tell me to give him a chance. Anyways, as someone said early in this post, I probably won’t vote again ever, now the the precedent is set that the FBI can pick a president by announcing the opponent might be in trouble when said Opponent is not in trouble. Fuck that. Why bother?

    We’ll be a banana republic by next election anyways.

  39. OOOps Sorry, this original comment here was about the wrong Rahm brother. This is Rahm’s other brother, the AGENT. Apparently he represented Donnie in the past and Donnie is meeting with him.

    It’s sleazy Rahm’s other sleazy brother who’s actually the doctor who favors letting people die if they cost too much.

    SO now Donnie needs an agent.

  40. It is a very bad time, and we haven’t even gotten to the first day of the Trump Administration yet. Who knows how bad it will really get. I have thought about leaving the country, but it is not easy to do that, as we know. If one must or would stay, then I do think that we are going to have to try to make this better, as utterly frustrating and maybe hopeless as it is. Because if no one does anything, it will obviously get worse.

    I agree with those who say that we will never find someone who is as admirable as a person and potential President, as Hillary. I know that I was not at all excited about Obama, though I voted for him. It was actually more pleasant in that I didn’t watch any of the news, or the inaugural speech, or any of the state of the union addresses. This time, when I really cared; gave a lot of money, wrote various posts; watched the shows and the rallies, it is far worse to “lose” (be cheated, robbed) of what we wanted. Every single institution failed us, from the media, to the FBI, to those who were supposed to better secure voting rights. What has happened, as absolutely awful as it was, was perhaps inevitable in this country. They would never have let Hillary govern. They would have blocked every one of her nominees to the Supreme Court. The only hope I had, was that she could win, and bring in a Senate majority, so that she could appoint people to the Court who would secure voting rights, and protect us for when one of the deranged radical Right persons would be elected. When they would not even let Obama’s nominee have a hearing for a year, we knew for certain that they were all absolute enemies to democracy and to this country’s ideals. They have gotten worse every year, for decades. And so has America, now full of Nazis, bigots, ignorant people who don’t even know what a fact is, and who believe utter lies and evil propaganda on a daily basis. It is truly sickening and horrifying.

    Anyway, we are at this point for many reasons, not the least of which is that Obama did not do anything to help the Democrats in midterm elections; and that when Democrats held power, they played too nice; whereas the other side plays to destroy, to take away every political option we have, including the vote. Right now, I am upset on a daily and nightly basis, and wish I could just do things I liked, and not think about any of it. But while we must not drive ourselves crazy with anguish, I think that good people have to do something, and cannot quit the fight, as long as they intend to stay here. I do think that what happened was so destructive and terrible, that many people are going to give up; not donate, or work for candidates, or do anything. I well understand that, but it is what the evil people want. Americans saved the world from fascism once But now Americans have become the ignorant and hate-filled dupes of fascists, and somehow we are going to have to save ourselves. It will obviously not be easy, and it may not be possible. But if Hillary can drag herself from bed, knowing that she was cheated of the presidency, knowing that her opponent and his followers are stupid and in many cases demonically evil, to give a speech urging her listeners to never give up, then I think that in some way, at some point, we have to find a way to do that. Even if it is so tragic that we will have to support people who are not a tenth as noble and brilliant as she is.

    As to exactly what to do, I don’t want to take up more paragraphs in this post to discuss that. But I do get some pleasure, and a small glimmer of hope, in thinking that if good people (and there are at least 65 million of us), act together, even if not directly, in trying as best we can given needs and circumstances, to avoid spending money on products produced by large corporations (as opposed to going to neighborhood stores and restaurants, for example), it will damage the economy at some point, and lead to a recession. Even ignorant voters will at some point at least trry (assuming there is still actual voting) to vote their pocketbooks. The people of Kansas actually elected a number of Democrats to their state legislature, because the far Right Governor Brownback and his minions wrecked their economy to where they are bankrupt.

  41. I don’t know exactly what happened in this election. I only know that something went terribly wrong. It wasn’t democratic with all the outside interference–from Russia, from the FBI, from Republican state legislatures and governors. Now these anti-democratic forces have more power than ever. So there is no reason to think elections in the future will be more representative of majority will than this one was. It will probably be worse. That’s why I don’t understand people who are talking about winning in 2018 and 2020. I believe in being hopeful, but I don’t believe in being delusional.

  42. In other words, I don’t think we can vote our way out of this mess.

  43. On petitions: I am always getting emails demanding that I sign some stupid petition. NOTHING ever comes of these petitions.

    Well this one is asking for a total of 100 signatures and he got 7. A real mover and shaker.

  44. Yes, Daily Puma thinks he is the one to decide the rules of politics, our values, and also if women and blogs are worthy of his approval or wrath.

    There is nothing that makes me more angry than a male trying to marginalize me by assuming he is more intelligent, hardworking and has all the answers.

    Our country is fucked up now because it has been in the hands of men for 240 years.

    Hillary was too smart, too hardworking, too tough and loved. that men in this country had to DESTROY her political career so we would never, ever see her become our President. For this reason alone, women have been fucked by men for at least one to three decades.

    Alessandro, you only speak for yourself not for Hillary supporters, go away…far, far away.

  45. NP pm 317–it’s a great line.
    Wish I could understand what people are saying on this blog half the time.

    ———
    I have no idea what everyone is talking about.

    Too many twitter abbreviations that I have no clue what is being said.

  46. Upps

    This country will never get anything done if we let the Alt Rt and Alt Lft take chances apiece undoing one mess and reinstating another mess.
    I LONG for all the moderates these two extremes threw out of office. Extremism is the path to destruction.

    —————-
    I couldn’t agree more!

  47. I feel and share all the sentiments expressed and the pain of Hillary’s stolen presidency… specially -a comment, that I will not give my vote to a penis…

    Yet, I see why and how the Repos got control of our country.
    Yes they’re all whores and unprincipled, but all the different white factions got behind the fat Trumpass and unified in whatever possible way to secure -not win- this election; and those that say never Trump are nicely vending over…

    Contrary to what some say, “we’ve been here before”, I say NO, we have never been in this situation before; when an opposite political party with questionable ties to a foreign country, engages in an overt interference of the election process, uses blatant voter suppression and intimidation, hacking voters information -and votes- with latest technology stealing the election in order to impose a fascist-white supremacy government in America -the land of the free. NO, we’ve never been here before.

    To resign and give over without resistance and do nothing to the obvious FRAUD -to me, is like accepting to be farted on my face in the way to lose my rights, my freedom and my country.

    In the last speech Hillary herself asked us to keep fighting for our country -America; that it was worth the fight for American principles and values…I’m listening to her…I’m fighting with her……I’m still with her.

    And there are millions out there who voted for her…engaged in the fight.
    If we can consolidate into a legal action…we have hope…is not over until is over…
    Are you with her?

  48. I’m gonna join NP in the Tweeter’s attached comments.
    Most of them I have not idea what they are talking about. and do not make sense…
    Frightening to think that’s the talk of the day…
    ???

  49. The worst thing someone can do is to not vote, period.

    Not voting by people that thought that Hillary’s wasn’t perfect enough, or that she was a woman………….are the people that could have voted against evil, and gave Donald Trump the final push into the WhiteHouse. These people were Bernie supporters, Dems, Independents and moderate Republicans that didn’t like Trump EITHER.

    We have massive trouble with our voting system and even our enemies like Russia picking Trump and helping him get into the WhiteHouse…but just not participating in the future just lets this corruption continue and get worse.

    No one can convince me otherwise, so please don’t even try.

  50. Brassy Rebel, on November 20, 2016 at 1:41 PM said:
    In other words, I don’t think we can vote our way out of this mess.

    ————
    There is nothing worse that feeling helpless and people can’t wait to do something until four years from now.

    We all have a voice, and I will be damned if I will just crawl in a corner until I die.

    First, we do not just turn the page on what happened. We keep speaking up, joining with others that won’t give up. Trashing the media for trying to make what happened, ‘normal’. Voting out every Republican running for office in two years.

    In essence, never give in to evil. Never give up, never stop fighting for what is good about our country.

    Hillary is proving right now that she WON the Majority of Votes…being defeated only makes it easy for the AltRight to get more power.

    Remember the quote on Hillary’s 2008 t-shirt? I have one, and when I get down and out, I put it on to remind myself…

    Harriet Tubman

    “If you hear the dogs, keep going.
    If you see the torches in the woods, keep going.
    If there’s shouting after you, keep going.
    Don’t ever stop.
    Keep going.
    If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.”

  51. Thank you Shadow for saying yes to VOTE…

    There are millions out there in the world that do not have the “right to Vote”…
    We have that right…use it…or loose it…

  52. Shadow, I did not say there is nothing we can do. I said we cannot vote our way out of this mess. I wish we could. Right now we must act in any way that presents itself. We must gum up the works for this regime as much as possible. Some of us will act outside of electoral politics–protesting, boycotting, resisting all things Trump. But unless enough people make it very clear that we will not support this regime in any way and will resist in every way, the next election will be as futile as this one. When anti-democratic forces achieve power, they certainly don’t hold free and fair elections. That’s where we are now. I cannot pretend otherwise.

  53. Harriet Tubmsn never had the right to vote. That never stopped her. She was a Freedom Fighter.

  54. I take back what I took back. In addition to the hollywood agent Emmanuel, Trump IS talking to the Kevorkian Emmanuel bro.

  55. Who is NP. Yeesh, I feel like I dont belong here anymore.

  56. Hahah Shadow, no chance of him being “more intelligent” than you are……or than…well anybody.

  57. I ain’t Harriet Tubman. I’m sick of all this shit and am not going to expend my life pissing up a rope.

    Ok now listen up everyone. Barack says that if Hillary had won, he would just hand over the keys and go have fun. But since she will not be President, he would be more than happy to be the de facto leader of the Democratic Party.

    Now I want you to think about that. Let me tell you the first thing that came to my mind. If anybody can make that cockroach Bernie Sanders sit down and STFU it’s Obama. He can’t pretend he’s in charge with the former president challenging him to that role.

    I think he will send that Castro wannabee to the garbage bin where he belongs, considering he is the guy who deliberately created chaos with intent to destroy the party. He also gave Trump all his grist for his mill. I fucking hate that walking cadaver and would LOVE to see him try to fuck around with Obama in charge. He won’t be snatching that party for his real love-party, the CPUSA.

  58. Thank you for that video up top, IMust. Says what I’ve been muttering far, far better than I ever could, and very much needed in this swamp of Trump voters that is my apartment complex.

  59. I’m with ya Brassy!

  60. UW, I no problem leaving the Democratic Party in the hands of Obama. What we learned during his presidency is that he is pretty damn moderate. I have no problem with moderate. It keeps the extremes out.

  61. I’m confused too Uppity. What is NP and what is the best line?

  62. Pissing up a rope for things like a woman’s right to choose…
    I already did that and young women took that right for granted…
    now they can reinvent the wheel to save it.
    They can find some doctor in the dark of the night, bring a paper bag full of cash and have their head covered with a bag so they don’t know were they are going or be able to identify the man in a white coat called a ‘doctor’. This is what my generation had to go though and I had friends that died from it.

    Bernie, oh Bernie was the savior for youngsters…especially the female ones that thought the snake oil he was selling was all that mattered. Even some adults had the audacity to say that Bernie could have won against Trump.

    I gave them a huge piece of history and my mind. I started out with, “Really? Bernie LOST against Hillary, remember? Bernie has his own history of less than perfect deeds and what makes you think that Trump wouldn’t have made up lies and slander him like he did with Hillary and all the Republican’s he ran against?” They just hang their heads and agree.

  63. Uppity Woman, on November 20, 2016 at 4:19 PM said:
    Who is NP. Yeesh, I feel like I dont belong here anymore.

    Sophie, I am going to explain this. Hope you don’t mind.

    Uppity, Sophie tweeted something I wrote here (on the previous thread) without attribution. I left a comment here (3rd comment from the top) for her to let her know that I saw her tweet, tweeting my line ‘How the Republican candidate became a malware for Russia to infect America.’ for the ESQ article but couched it by saying thank you (to make it non-confrontational). She said “NP pm 317–it’s a great line.” NP means No Problem.

    I just wish she had left a comment for me here that she would tweet what I wrote. But it is all good. I don’t mind if she tweeted it as long as there was an acknowledgement.

  64. No votes counted have been recorded since Friday night…

  65. Uppity, I am laughing here about your persistence. You own this blog and you should know what is going on and sorry about making it all cryptic.

  66. NP = no problem

    I was racking my brain trying to figure out if it was another blog, a news site, someone I should know…

    Thanks for explaining pm.

  67. Oops!
    I also thought NP was another blogger complaining about the Tweeters comments… which I don’t understand most of time…

  68. LOL! NP….

  69. Moon, where are you??????????????????????????????????

  70. There is a senate run-off race going on in LA. If the Dem can win, it would give the Democrats another body. The Republican is favored , but people around the country have been phone banking and sending him contributions in hope of getting him elected. His name is Foster Campbell and I made a small donation to his campaign. Rachel Maddow had him on her show last week. Too bad one of the big name Dem’s haven’t come out in support of him. I received an e-mail from the SF group of Hillary volunteers that they were phone banking for him.

  71. The run-off is on Dec 10th.

  72. Donald Trump Prepares

  73. If you have seen the video clips of Donald and his son Barron, you understand why Melania and Barron will remain in NY.

    Trump thinks all of America is as cruel and hateful as he is. They are not. That young boy has a problem. Possibly it’s Autism. Or Flat Affect disorder. Does he imagine nobody notices? Does he imagine nobody else in the country cares about a person with these conditions? He is treating his son like some Family Shame. That is the real shame. It is NOT a shame. Who among us doesn’t know of a child with Autism among friends or family? It would provide a small consolation to the many parents who love a Barron. And just maybe that self-serving POS Trump could have a real cause.

    The disgrace is Donald Trump, not Barron. The boy is not perfect enough for him.

  74. Birdgal
    …senate run-off race going on in LA. If the Dem can win, it would give the Democrats another body. The Republican is favored-

    ———-
    How could a Rethug be winning in CA?

  75. Issa’s seat hasn’t been confirmed yet either….hoping…hoping!

  76. Upps, I was shocked at the cost of Medicare when my husband and I added Plans B and D.
    It really bugs me that the three things that all old people will need eventually are not covered at all: eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care.
    I don’t care how many pushups you can do, pally, eventually the sense organs FAIL.
    If Palin’s death panel talk scared the rubes, imagine how they’ll feel about the Trump/Pence/Ryan ice floes.
    What am I saying?
    There won’t be any ice floes left.
    We’ll have to jump off cliffs at knife point.

  77. Shadow, LA=Lousiana. Sorry for the confusion.

    I would love to see Issa out.

  78. Uppity, I thought there was something off about Barron. A neighbor thinks he is abused, but on a FB thread, people were mentioning Autism. If he does have Autism or Asperger’s, it makes sense not to move him right now, since change is very difficult for people with these challenges. Melania could have a great project, if Barron does indeed have Autism or Asperger’s.

  79. Uppity, yep less than perfect is a no no for the buffoon — isn’t there a nazi, Aryan connection to that kind of thinking? His autism and vaccine talk during the debates was a bit out of the blue and if Barron is truly autistic, it makes sense why he would say that. He is a beautiful child.

  80. It would be hell to have any kind of disability in that family with that father. He doesn’t seem terribly fond of Tiffany either–nor she of him. He’s a sociopath, totally lacking in empathy.

  81. Remember he mocked the disabled reporter.

  82. I think Tiffany will write a book some day. And well she should. She doesn’t stay away for nothing. For starters it’s public knowledge he wanted her mother to have an abortion.

  83. Trump will treat the boy like he’s a Family Shame. It’s what a Narcissist would do. Too bad, because he could actually have a useful cause. But not him. Nope.

    imust has some interesting photos to confirm symptoms of autism or asperger’s.

  84. I TRULY hope Issa is gone. That piece of shit.

  85. I TRULY hope Issa is gone. That piece of shit.

  86. I was really sorry Kantor lost.

  87. Uppity, I am laughing here about your persistence. You own this blog and you should know what is going on and sorry about making it all cryptic.

    That’s ok. I like being confused. Proves I’m alive.

  88. That’s an interesting idea about Barron. It makes sense them for her to stay in NYC. And dump is an even bigger pig than I thought for running at all.

  89. And dump is an even bigger pig than I thought for running at all.

    THIS! He is 70+ years old and he seems to have enough money to last. He has no vision or experience of public service and certainly no temperament. Greed, vanity, lack of shame, lack of self awareness,…..

  90. There was a time not long ago, people who were flawed and with baggage like Trump would not think of running because they feared they would be exposed by the media or other. There was self-limitation and self-elimination from even contemplating running. There are no such barriers now. What is even more scary is that he has shattered all norms of human decency and dignity, willing to say and do anything.

  91. So what is the pay off for the two old scumbags, Rudy and Newt? I have not heard anything yet for them.

  92. Roy Cooper was declared the winner in North Carolina. McCory is out .

  93. Birdgal

    Issa out with all the others on that Hillary hating panel…me too.

  94. If people want distraction, take a look at these beautiful pics from around the world. It certainly works on me:

    https://twitter.com/Piclogy/with_replies

  95. When I think ISSA all I can see is that Woman’s “Panel” of all men, and declaring that a woman who wants to speak is “Not Qualified”.

  96. Is there something really wrong with Barron? He is a cute boy from what I have seen, and he did look freaked out being put up on stage with daddy dearest.

    Did Melania come out and say she would not live at the WhiteHouse? That will give Dumper free range on groping and having sex with under-aged girls. Pedophiles sanctuary, their freak flags will fly.

  97. Hmmm the Democrat Cooper wins but Hillary lost. That does not make sense.

  98. He has wanted to be president a long time. For the glory and for the status, he wants people to bow to him, especially all those people of means who saw him for the badly bred tacky sow’s ear and grifter he is no matter how much money he bilked out of others.

  99. Yeah, reporters have been asking him if he’s going to run for decades. It was a vanity thing. I think that WH Correspondent’s Dinner in 2011 where Seth Meyers and Obama mocked him was what set him over the edge and he vowed to get revenge by running….and winning. He got the last laugh on us.

    Obama, of course, was angry because Trump had been hounding him about the birth certificate.

  100. Congrats to North Carolina for Cooper’s win

  101. Thanks PM

    If people want distraction…

    ———–
    I saved about 20 photos to make my own digital jigsaw puzzles with. They are beautiful, and some of the animal photos are amazing too.

    I need a lot of calming distractions these days so I don’t slide too deep into political depression.

  102. Obama got nailed with some important questions today on Trump. He shuddered a bit when trying to hide his contempt for the ahole.

  103. He got the last laugh on us.

    Agree, Imust but at what cost? at whose expense? and the means with which he won and the uncertainty of what might happen… I would say we live in interesting times if it were not so anxious.

  104. I’m with all of you all. We each can do what we can do. We can make it known over and over that our senators and representatives will pay for going along with Trump and his radical nonsense even if they are Republicans. Call and remind them over and over we don’t want Medicare eliminated. Etc. Etc. Remind them over and over that Hillary got MILLIONS more votes than Trump. Everything that the GOP tries to pass we need to work on gumming it up.

  105. For the NYers on this board, this is a pic I took of the skyline from Brooklyn bridge. Sunrise and around 5:30 am. You ask what I was doing on the bridge at that hour? Well, I was hiking with my husband and couple of friends. We do hikes where we catch a night bus from DC and arrive in NY at daybreak and explore various parts of NYC and catch a train or bus back to DC in the night. Crazy, but a lot of people like doing that in our hiking club.

  106. At what cost pm? Immeasurable. At whose expense? All of us. The ramifications of this election will be felt for generations I fear.

  107. Shadow, I am listening to a lot of classical music (Western and Indian) more and it helps me calm down. Only this afternoon, I was so overcome by anxiety, I wanted to shed skin as it were. But everyone around here at work is walking around numb.

    Another pic I took on the same hike: iconic Brooklyn Bridge.

  108. Uppity

    Who is NP. Yeesh, I feel like I dont belong here anymore.

    When I used it, it was shorthand for “no problem.”
    Either in this thread or the other PM317 proposed an alternate title for an article. I liked the line so I tweeted it. She said thank you. I said, NP.
    Mystery solved.

  109. imust:
    Is the video of Obama roast Trump at WH an old one?

  110. For you, Shadow. I was talking to an attorney in CA for work and told him if I lived in CA, I would just be driving up and down Rt. 1. 🙂

  111. He “the Trump” did not win the election…He and “the white rusky minions” stole the election…

  112. Roy Cooper was declared the winner in North Carolina. McCory is out .

    YES!!! YES!!! The first good news I’ve had since the 8th.

    As for how Cooper could win but not Hillary? Aside from voter suppression, voters in Mecklenburg County, where Charlotte is, crossed party lines for Governor and AG. Charlotte, more than any other city in NC not the brunt of HB2. Most of the huge revenue-generating events that were cancelled were in Charlotte and this is a business city. McCrory would not listen to the business community here, and as a result, many Trump voters in Mecklenburg chose Cooper.

  113. thanks, julie.

  114. bellecat the videos of the WHCD roast of Trump were from 2011.

  115. I’m not seeing any news stories about Cooper winning the gubernatorial race. Where did you see it?

  116. Jules, I saw it on FB.

  117. Jules, I thought I saw a video of Cooper saying he won, but I can’t find it. His family was with him.

  118. Uppity, I am a new lurker here and hope I can occasionally join in. I am an old’un and regret I will never see HRC as pres. A Repub woman will get in b4 a Dem but hope not in my life. My days are gray, hence my log in name, and will be for the foreseeable future.
    I live in North Carolina and Cooper has not been formally announced yet. McCrory has filed complaints all over the state and I guess they will have to be checked locally. At least the Repub election board decided, as of today, not to take them on. To date, Cooper is around 7600 votes ahead. My understanding is that 5,000 is the magic number to resist a recount but that is not official, just a rumor.

    One more point. I am so thankful to see here that Bernie is not being glorified as the Democratic Party savior. Not sure why he was allowed to run as a Dem anyway. It was wrong. I think you may be in a minority re that fool who is over 50% the cause of our defeat.
    Point 1.5. I so dislike acronyms!! I retired from the health field, which is full of them, but I prefer plain English myself! Just takes a little more typing!
    Thank you for your comments. They help those of us out here in our little cocoons.

  119. And of course republicans are complaining…what else is new…

    Must read the link above…

  120. Belle, I wish they were recounting the votes for Hillary. I thought the race was over, but it sounds like it is ongoing.

  121. Yes, MI is 11,612 difference with 96% reported
    WI is 27, 257 difference with 95% reported since Nov. 9, I don’t know why they are not counting…
    AZ is 84,904 difference with 80% reported as per Nov. 11

    Those 3 states are 37 delegates that can put Hillary at 269 and bring Trump down to 253…
    But I don’t see any official or I don’t know if any entity is pushing for the total count of all votes…and recount…
    That’s what has me very frustrated; and everybody is just talking about Trump’s transition etc, etc. when there are not final tally of all votes…and requesting for a recount on those too close to call…

  122. And the Demo party is just about bickering who takes control of what instead of fighting for voting count and recount and investigating voters suppression, etc.
    Very disturbing what appears a hands off and move forward crap…

  123. The California coast

    That is a beautiful photo pm, thanks. Yes, most of us live in this expensive state because we love it here.

  124. And if Trump thinks he can come to CA and drill for oil off our CA shore and gunk up our land and air for his wealthy buddies…he will see the wrath of CA come down on his effin’ squirrel covered head!!!

  125. Bellecat

    Yes, MI is 11,612 difference with 96% reported
    WI is 27, 257 difference with 95% reported since Nov. 9, I don’t know why they are not counting…
    AZ is 84,904 difference with 80% reported as per Nov. 11

    ———-
    Those numbers have not changed since I first started posting the total votes.

  126. This is beyond disgusting. Water-hosing Native Americans in 28 degree weather. Oh, happy Native American Month.

  127. Hello Gray! I suspect none of us are Spring Chickens so welcome aboard! Just say whatever the hell you want. Everybody else does. xo

  128. Thanks, Uppity, for a laugh on this Monday!! And your openness.
    I got heavily knocked on DU (an acronym for just in case) because I expressed some uncertainty about how the vote would go before it happened. I am not usually weird in this way but I did have a dream the night before the election of the total sky being dark and thinking “it is coming right at us”. OK, back to laughing a bit, which I will do all day as I think of your comment!

  129. Where is everyone??

  130. Well the altRightDumptruck brigade will be pist at this:

    Pope Francis extends Catholic priests’ right to forgive abortion
    (CNN)

  131. Why is Bernie supporter Tulsa Garba (sp) meeting with Trump???

  132. Major changes for Medicaid coming under Trump and the GOP

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/21/news/economy/medicaid-trump/index.html

  133. Why are these votes not being counted? Are there efforts by the Republican officials in these states to not do it? How can there be no more votes out of MI and AZ and WI for the last two weeks? Why is there no massive outrage?

    I think it is clear that in various ways, Hillary has been cheated out of winning this election. I’m talking purely about the vote count, not even all that other stuff with FBI and media, etc. Votes were illegallly suppressed in WI for sure, and very likely MI and PA. I mean that people who were eligible and ready to vote, did not get to vote. And then of course there is possible hacking of the machines, which no one seems interested in investigating. It seems that everyone just wants to go along and ratify Trump as president, with all the attendant horrors, as opposed to checking whether the voting totals are legitimate. I guess it is only Republicans who complain about results, and make up stories of voting fraud.

    And yes, the Democrats in high positions, including President Obama, seem to eschew fighting. One side games everything, does everything illegal that it can do; and the other side just wants to be good losers, which does them no good at all, and even emboldens the evil people. And minority Presidents, those who lost the popular vote and managed to win the undemocratic electoral vote, do not fare well. Carter, GW Bush. A system which allows someone to be President who got less votes; and in this case two million less votes, is fatally flawed. It is not some fun board game with tricky rules, it is about leading the nation with the support of the populace. We have now got a system where this may happen every time; or where the Democrats need to win every election by 5% to actually gain the Presidency. That may be exciting for Republcans, and amusing for the media, but it is utterly ruinous for the entire political and governmental system. There is no other country that proceeds in this manner, where a minority of voters can hold the majority hostage, and wreck every program which the majority of people value.

  134. Love Tess Rafferty’s video, Imust! My has viewed it several times over the weekend! I was busy over the weekend entertaining family and somehow wound up with a clogged kitchen sink. The plumber is on his way this morning….

  135. i.e. my husband has viewed it several times….

  136. William, on November 21, 2016 at 1:27 PM said:

    “Why are these votes not being counted?
    …Hillary has been cheated out of winning this election. I’m talking purely about the vote count,…”

    Thank you so much William for bringing it up one more time the fundamental issues of counting all votes, recounting those too close, investigating voters suppression, hacking votes, etc.

    I greatly appreciate all your comments throughout.

    I can not believe what’s going on in our country…
    I myself trying hard to get more involved on this, but I don’t find a coalition that’s actually working on verifying all the trouble issues above mentioned that hijacked this election outcome.
    I’ve seen Jimmy Carter involved in many other countries elections to witness and validate fair and honest voting procedures.

    The ostrich syndrome has landed in our country’s soil

  137. birdgal

  138. imust, Thank you. Very interesting.

  139. OMG I know DU. How EVER did you survive?

  140. Thank you, Bellecat. It seems that we are seeing a systemic breakdown of institutions in our country, the ones we had counted on to ensure that this kind of thing would not be happening. We can add the NY Times, whose Public Editor today wrote a piece saying that the major failure of Times coverage this cycle was being too hard on Trump and his supporters. This from the paper which wrote a million articles on the fake story known as emails. Are these entitties all being bought off, or is the lure of making money now subsuming all honor and sense of ethics? I read that the Sunday talk shows barely covered Trump’s $25 million settlement of tne case against his phony university. Meanwhile, the media was hysterically covering the Clinton Foundation, which does only good work. There is something very wrong at this point with our media. However, I think that the Washington Post has done a decent job of late, as have a few other journals such as Newsweek. We have to support those, and unsubscribe to the others. 65 million people can have a lot of power if they use it in concert.

    Tulsi Gabbard! Given that Trump hands out positions as rewards, how likelly is it that Gabbard was purposefully helping Trump, with all her attacks on Hillary. and statement that she could not vote for her in the general election?

  141. Why aren’t [snark] those selfless, noble guardians of the public interest, WikiLeaks,[/snark] investigating the vote suppression? Why aren’t they hacking away at the e-mail servers of the relevant officials? :/

  142. Here it is but don’t expect it discussed on any Sunday shows or cable media; https://www.thestreet.com/story/13896916/1/donald-trump-rode-5-billion-in-free-media-to-the-white-house.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&yptr=yahoo
    Sorry if this gets posted twice, I hate WordPress.

  143. Starting 1/20/17, all Presidential Daily Briefings will be limited to 140 characters or less— Expectprivacyfromgov (@lildoggy4u) November 21, 2016

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  144. As others have already said, it’s a warped tribute to Our Hillary that it took such a gigantic coalition to keep her out of the White House.

  145. Looks like Trump is having a “thank-you” party for his media co-horts:

  146. @William: The villains fight like demons on crystal meth because they know the demographics are permanently stacked against them, and their next defeat will be the beginning of the end for their interests. Hence, they will do anything to prevent that next defeat–even betray their country to Mommie Dearest Russia.

  147. WILLIAM 11/21 1:27 PM thought you might find this interesting.

    Greg Palast, Investigative Journalist, BBC and The Guardian
    The Election was Stolen – Here’s How..

  148. Starting 1/20/17, all Presidential Daily Briefings will be limited to 140 characters or less— Expectprivacyfromgov (@lildoggy4u) November 21, 2016

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  149. I think the article has been posted on this blog already–
    but it’s worth a re-post.

  150. There you have it proof that the Bernie people are actually Trump people. If you Bernie people are being considered for a place in the Trump administration (the most racist, sexist, bigoted and homophobic administration in my life time) then you are are really a Trump person.

  151. Trump hasn’t even been inaugurated, and we already have collaborators. What is the liklihood that Hillary could have invited select “journos” to an off the record meeting IN HER HOME without holding a general presser first and gotten away with it?

    As for Gabbard, she is proof of my contention that populism whether from the left or right is corrupt. Hillary was too awful for her to vote for, but Trump summons her, and she comes running. A Cabinet post for her? She is not even remotely qualified, but she has been a collaborator for a long time. We are seeing all our worst suspicions confirmed.

  152. Oooooooooh, Wolfface is going to Trump’ golden palace. He must be peeeeing his Depends in excitement.

  153. Google Gabbard. It’s very interesting. Like Trump she has foreign ties. She is linked to the ultra nationalist party in India which favors persecuting the Muslim minority. She is far to the right of most Democrats on foreign policy. Thus, Trump dangles a Cabinet post to a supposedly progressive Democrat.

  154. When you traffick in bigotry and sexism you are not a Democrat. This is the main problem I have with the Bernie Democrats. They care nothing about POC. Easy to side with Trump when you don’t give a shit for certain peoples rights.

  155. Virginia, on November 21, 2016 at 3:32 PM

    The link you posted is about all the stuff we have been talking about here, and if we already know this information, dad guy, that means that the leaders and power people and media already know it.

    What is being done behind the scenes to remidy the situation???

    Meanwhile the media just keeps on plugging along with the ooos and awes of Dumpers tweets and cabinet almost/choices.

    If the Dems are going to abandon their base and just forgive and forget, they can all go to Hell, again…and we are left out in the cold, just like Hillary.

  156. LilDoggie Woof Woof! You change your name on WP and you end up in spammy.

  157. Well I hope he does hire Blabby Gabbard. Gets her the hell out of congress. One less Bernie troll.

  158. LOL Palast isn’t worth spit.

  159. FLVoter. Bernie, Trump. Trump, Bernie. Same cloth. Chaos creators and nobody can work with them unless they do what they are told. Good at barking orders, not so good at actually doing anything.

  160. Same cloth.

    Hillary haters, why? No penis.

  161. Oh dear God, Japan got hit with a 7.3 earthquake..and tsunami warnings are up again for the same area that was hit in 2011. Please pray for them. Here’s a link to Japan’s TV (in English) for non-hysterical coverage unlike our media.

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/live/

  162. Poor Japan. They always get nailed.

  163. Bernie’s useful fools. lol

  164. Palast used to write here in USA. Now he’s in UK. He’s kind of a conspiracy theorist only sometimes we like his theories. he isn’t held in much esteem here. He’s way outpaced by the real crackpots like Infowars, Drudge and Breitbart. Well really, Drudge is just a receptacle, kind of like a bread starter. They dump the latest fake news onto him and he runs with it. Ten minutes later, all the other right wing lie pimpers pick it up and there you have it. He might find himself absent from Google alot considering the new rules on fake news. He does great “polls” too. You can vote as many times as you want.

  165. Gray-days @ 11:15am, my son also had a dream the night before the election in where he looked out his window and the sky was dark with a red glow. He thought it meant thermonuclear war. Funny that you would both have dreams of dark skies and dump wins.

  166. I watched the Tess Rafferty video again today. It’s brilliant. I wish we could give her some kind of award.

  167. TRUMP WAS RIGHT!!The polls were rigged ,not for him,just for your Republican in general.

    Repubs are too busy licking their chops and Dems are too busy trying to jockey for position in the New Order,to be fighting the fight we need to fight..and that is voter suppression. If we don’t fight this now we can look forward to our grandchildren and their children living under the Trump version of the Hunger Games.

    We NEED to contest the validity of the votes in WI,MI,PA,NC and Fla based on the Crosscheck/Kobach/Koch/voter ID suppression of the vote that is clearly skewed toward the Democratic voter,minorities and students especially.

    Even if Palast is only partially right,we need to at least contest the results in those states to let the Repubs and Koch brothers know we’re on to them . Maybe it’ll make it harder the next time around.
    Seems to me we need to be asking about absentee ballots,provisional ballots and “spoiled” non-votes. This is info that SHOULD be readily available to the public…AND with the margin’s so close in several crucial states the results should be contested to insure,as much as possible, the integrity of the vote ( Questioning might help the image of our democracy around the world if we’re willing to review our results)
    Also a chance to look @ possible hacking in the tallying of the votes..how were vote tallys reported to the states? Hackable there?

    PLUS this is an issue that should draw together and FOCUS large swaths of the freaked out students,minorities and disabled that were the primary targets of the new voter suppression laws.

    Get off the streets and focus on these states and their vote.
    Please feel free to e-mail this out,tweet do whatever we can to alert as many people as possible that we need to contest the validity of the votes in those states previously mentioned.

    Sorry for the rant,but am feeling the need for some kind of action. Fascists need disarray in order to lead.We have to get our acts together ASAP;even if it is the holidays and football season.

  168. I just feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. I have read all of your comments and I appreciate each and every one of you. Imust, the video is exactly how I feel. Uppity you are the bomb! Gray, welcome aboard. I am still sad.

  169. MsdSal, the problem with contesting or investigating anything at all at this point is not practical. What I mean here, is, the President and AG will be gone too soon to complete such an investigation. By the time anything came close to assessing for a conclusion, Jeff Sessions will be the AG, and I can assure you he will find that everything was just fine, no violations, none, zero, zilch.

  170. Msdsal:
    Thank you for joining the rant…

    “We NEED to contest the validity of the votes in WI,MI,PA,NC and Fla…”

    I’m all for it, let’s contest this election ASAP…
    Where do I start?
    Do I need to join the NRA and get me an AK-47 automatic assault rifle?
    But…where do I shoot?

    Seriously; How can we start or join an action contesting this election?
    Is there one already going?

  171. Yes, Flvoter, Bernie voters = Trump Voters

  172. You see that’s what I have noticed about the Democratic party. They are constantly in reactive mode. Never proactive. They anticipate NOTHING. They see one scenario and never imagine another. They don’t think ahead. Ever. Furthermore, they are fools. We all witnessed how they stopped Obama from EVERYTHING they could for his entire tenure! They made a mockery of his right to nominate a member of SCOTUS. And the party just took it. Now it’s their turn to nominate SCOTUS and you will watch these lame-asses cave in. The lion eats the lamb. Every time. You watch. The only thing that EVER saves them is the guarantee that the malicious and nasty Republican party always over-reaches with their penchant for fascism. That’s the ONLY thing that saves them. But always, before that happens, horrible hobbling tactics are put in place that harm real people while the D party picks its collective nose.

    This is what is right with the Democratic party. They think that they can live in peace, they hate confrontation and they are eaten alive by the malicious and downright horrible people leading the Republicans, Day in and day out. They fight NOTHING until it happens first. WTF kind of winning attitude is that?

    Lame. Period.

  173. Here is the point which many (not people here), including the media, do not grasp:

    When a candidate loses the popular vote by two million or more, but wins the electoral vote, that candidate cannot legitimately govern in any moral sense. Yes, he has the power to impose his policies on the country, but does not have the necessary sense of popular mandate. Just because some archaic and outmoded system gives people in smaller states more power (and one party more ability to rig and suppress the vote in more controlled populations), does not validate it. Everyone in this country has equal rights, that is embedded in the Constitution. If Social Security is dismantled, as is being planned, that has the same initial effect on everyone, no matter where they live.

    The only societies which had a minority of the population controlling the lives of the majority, were ancient states run on slave labor, or modern day dictatorships. A democracy cannot exist in this way. I am not just referring to a moral sense, but to a natural order of things. There are too many people out there who voted for Hillary, to simply accept having their lives destroyed by the minority who voted for the other candidate. Those who say, “Well, those are the rules,” are analogizing this to a sports event. In sports, it is just a game, and everyone knows and accepts the rules going in. Governance is not a game; and no one voting agreed to the rules which were made up for other reasons 225 years ago. Yes, pragmatically they lead to a certain result. But that result does not become “right.” And a majority of people feel and know that it is wrong, like a jigsaw puzzle piece which does not fit, and which some person tries to jam into the wrong slot. It never fits, and the puzzle is askew, as one can see when looking at it. “The time is out of joint,,” said by Hamlet, reflects the sense that there is something warped and distorted which has occurred to the natural order. And people will not stop feelng that sense of wrongness and dislocation as this unnatural result tries to get forced into place by the Republicans and their collaborators in the media.

  174. Upps, Japan just downgraded tsunami “warning” to “advisory in Miyagi prefecture (Fucashima area that was hit last time). Areas that were under “advisory” have had that lifted.

    Thank you God because 2016 has been bad enough already.

  175. Yes, Flvoter, Bernie voters = Trump Voters

    Yeah I guess they showed everybody hey? Too bad they fucked up their own lives for the next 30 years, the little suckholes.

    But one thing is for sure. Donald will give them all jobs. And they will look great in their uniforms. They’ll all be drafted as officers, because they are so impressed with themselves. Then they will be thrown in a trench with the rest of the soldiers, peeing from fear and crying for their mothers.

    After that they can come home, if they live, and pick strawberries, lettuce and peaches to fill in for the immigrants we got rid of.

    And unemployment will be Zero, then.

  176. Yeah, Uppity we definitely need to fight everything. We are the resistance. The only D president we ever had that fought was the Big Dawg and if the Bernie Bros had their way he would be vanished to outer Siberia never to be seen from again. I’m with you on Gabbard. She can go work for Trump and we can get someone way better than her from very blue Hawaii. She’ll be the face of “Muslim Registration” for the New Order for America. Did anybody else see all the Nazi rallies for Trump that are JUST NOW showing up in the news? Well, I called my two GOP senators and one GOP rep about it and CRICKETS. So while yes, the Dems need a kick in the butt at least they can say NAZIS ARE BAD NEWS which the COWARDLY and CRAVEN GOP can’t even utter a word about. All these problems go back 8 years and Obama saying he wanted to hold hands with these morons. I’m not sure what we need to do to rectify all this.

  177. Video clip of Alt-Right meeting and a salute to Trump. Or as someone on twitter put it, Video of Nazis, because if you have sex with a goat, you are not a Alt-Farmer, you are a goatfucker.

  178. Uppity,
    I get your point and even agree w/it but your later post sort of fleshes out why I think we need to contest the vote anyway. It’s being pro-active..it’s a shot across the bow of the Kobach/Koch/Bannon/Trump/Spineless Repub bow.

    If nothing else a lawsuit would draw attention to the the issues;focus the energies of the disenfranchised and train organizers for 2018. No need for AK-47’s how about the NAACP, CBC,Black Lives Matter,ACLU, DNC,Planned Parenthood?How about the head of the NAACP in NC..he might start something. All of these entities should be banning together to protest the validity of the vote.

    Anybody know how to contact the powers that be in these organizations? Know any good lawyers in the states that have close votes and were impacted by voter id and voter suppression; that might be willing to file a lawsuit on behalf of those who have been disenfranchised?

    If we want to aim at something,how about these organizations and many more? We need a good righteous fight right now;a clear fight for justice and equality. What fits that bill more than voter rights?
    True,we’re likely not to win,but sometimes the victory is in pulling back the curtain.

  179. Thanks, WLM, for your comments to me. I think this whole thing is like losing a loved one/soul mate (which I have). The grief will never go away. Only time will tell how we cope.

    I hope that those who are younger than me and with contacts will contest the vote count (first that every vote is counted and added to totals) and its implications.

    I fear that those who say Democrats are not street fighters are too correct. Hence, the fighting for future control arenas instead of fighting now for the future of this nation.
    The cycles of history are getting more and more extreme. We are in for extreme social unrest for the next four years unless a new real leader arises.
    I think Hillary was/is a real leader and could have brought us through all the unrest but… the cycle has tanked in the other direction. I see no one else in the public arena today who can do it. Perhaps masses of people continuing to protest and then someone arising from that?
    [I promise to try to shorten my messages. My volunteer org cohort hates my emails. They want 3 sentences.]

  180. Indian elections have more integrity than what transpired here. Trump and the sewer rats he has brought out at every level are making this country into a third world country. Like every third world politician, his main goal is to line his pockets which he is doing and he is not even sworn in. He is everything he accused poor Hillary of — corrupt, fraudulent, criminal, crooked and of course much much more.

    Once a modern and sophisticated democracy has degenerated into a third world cesspool of corrupt politicians. The Republicans can take all the credit for the terrible damage they have done to this once beautiful country. Immigrants like me wanted to escape that and came here and honored this place for what it was but no longer. We might as well go home and lead a good life among friends and family and the familiar. No more loneliness and the challenges of being different.

  181. socalannie, on November 21, 2016 at 6:55 PM said:
    I watched the Tess Rafferty video again today. It’s brilliant. I wish we could give her some kind of award.

    —————
    I just finished watching it for the third time. Sometimes, it’s the only thing that sounds sane to me.

  182. I’d put up my tweets to Bernie Sanders about this, but stats show me that nobody bothers clicking on my tweets here, so I won’t bother. You can find what I told this piece of shit on twitter.

    Sanders: It’s not enough to say ‘I’m a woman’ so vote for me
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/21/sanders-identity-politics/94221972/

    I urge you all to leave the party and let them know why.

  183. Can somebody silence that piece of shit, Sanders?

  184. Here right tweet:

  185. I love you Upps and I see your rational; yet, IF the AG is in power, it would be under illegitimate means…
    siding with Msdsal, you stated right and agree that the Demo party is just reactive body of dim souls and no proactive; well, it’s time to be
    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ PROACTIVE }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}.

    Reading Spanish and Latin American newspapers, they are all scratching their heads and laughing with the so-call America democracy, righteous system and law abiding creeds accepting an election that is -obviously, totally WRONG…

  186. Yeah, Uppity the Bernie Bros euphoria at destroying Hillary was short lived much like the media euphoria. Now they are being hit with the reality of crap Trump is president. Too late suckers. You were a bunch of children who got scammed by Putileaks and now your live is going to suck because you were too self centered to think of anybody else before the election. Your little fee fees got hurt just like Mike Pence’s fee fees got hurt by the cast of Hamilton. You Bernie Bros and Trumpies deserve each other. In a way I’m glad. After this crap happening TWICE we need to move on from the Sarandon crowd and I think this election proves it beyond a shadow.

  187. They fight NOTHING until it happens first. WTF kind of winning attitude is that?

    ————-
    Couldn’t have said it better myself, Upps.

    Case in point:

    Sitting on their thumbs and dreaming of Thanksgiving dinner and holiday time off, instead of counting the phucking votes!

    Duh, huh??? What votes?

    Meanwhile Trump is moving into the WestWing while the Dems act like the useless nitwits they are.

    Poor Hillary, she should have pretended to see the Republican light, lied though her teeth and not mentioned wanting to close loopholes and raise their taxes. Not said anything about free collages, and then when she won, sock it to them. She might have lost some Bernie females but she would have gained more independents with moooola.

  188. I am filled with rage seeing what that fucker Sanders said about Hillary. How can we get rid of him from our political discourse?

  189. You need to see this. It’s over. Knock the Statue of Liberty down. Put a Trump Statue up. He’s gotten control of the media.

  190. Video clip of Alt-Right meeting and a salute to Trump

    ———————–

    This asshole needs to be kicked in his stupid head. What evil, desperate, idiots they are. Raise their little hands like the mass murderer they pray to.

    We are going to have race, gender and economic war like America has not seen in decades.

    Buckle up, (REDACTED)…it is going to be very, very ugly.

    Thank God I live in a deep blue state.

  191. Democrats are wusses. Both Trump and Sanders are taking them to the cleaners. I mentioned where was the equivalent of Judicial Watch on the Democrat side? Today I see a tweet from Boehlert saying my be we need a Dem Judicial Watch. Trump is already doing so much that is unconstitutional and impeachable. Who will stand up to him? It is not going to be the media.

  192. Upps, I know you don’t care for Palast, but I don’t write him off so easily. l think he’s done some good freelance reporting on finance and voter fraud (2000, 2004 & 2016) for reputable news entities (The Guardian, BBC, Rolling Stone). We know that voter suppression has always been a tried and true strategy for the Republicans and it was no less true this year. Unlike cable and print msm, whose idea of voter suppression was tantamount to “turning off voters” due to “two unpopular candidates,” Palast has raised important questions concerning this year’s voting irregularities. I don’t believe Hillary’s loss was simply the result of fewer wwc voters; I think many of her voters were kept from casting a ballot for her or denied having their vote counted. Due to the gutting of voting protection laws in 2013, the Republicans were able rig the election the old fashion way by lowering her numbers in swing states. Any Dem candidate would have lost the election under such circumstances.

  193. The NYT has been full of bullshit towards Hillary since 2007. Just like CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews and others.

    Our media has sold out on the American public, all they care about are ratings and 24/7 fake drama, instead of serious reporting and integrity.

    The fact that NYT is worried about the loss of Trump supporters, comes down to their $ bottom line, not because they have found the golden power of TrumpTruth.

    No one trusts our fake media any longer…they can all go bankrupt for all I care.

    SNL nailed CNN in their last show. Kiss the asses of the person that they think will give them the most drama.

  194. Shadowfax, on November 21, 2016 at 9:49 PM said:

    We are going to have race, gender and economic war like America has not seen in decades.

    ________

    Shadow, You are right. Trump can BRING IT ON. The people I talk with is not afraid

    Some are saying they are not going backwards. He can try to turn this country backwards if he wants . They are saying he is in for a rude awaking.

    On New Years Eve some have ammunition that will shake your house. Believe me, they are stocked.

    What is going on with the Democratic Party? They are quiet as a church mouse. Bill and Hill are also silent. What is going on?

    I have not watched any news since the election.

    .

  195. I will support any reporter that gets the truth out there and any congresswoman or man that fights to get the votes counted and expose what is going on.

    The media we thought we could count on to tell us the truth has betrayed us…so they can watch their stations burn to the ground if they keep pretending Trump is a normal candidate that will fix America.

  196. Shadowfax, I can’t let you say what you said at 9:49.

  197. May be there’s something to learn from the repubs…

    North Carolina governor alleges voter fraud in bid to hang on

    Republican Pat McCrory is trailing in a tight race, but his campaign is challenging votes.

    By Elena Schneider

    11/21/16 07:03 PM EST

    http://www.politico.com/news/2016-elections

    But NOOOOOO, we had the biggest fraud and rigged election in the history of our country and we just seat still and worry sick about what will happen in the 2020 election, who is gonna run against the fuhrer…

    We still have an election going on…
    The majority of the states have NOT finish counting the votes, and many stopped on November 9. WHY?

  198. I will support any reporter that gets the truth out there and any congresswoman or man that fights to get the votes counted and expose what is going on.

    Yes and a unicorn just pooped in your yard.

  199. They have already “normalized” and “sanitized” this bizarre and biased election .The Sanders cheerleader Congress woman who met with Trump today represents everything wrong with today’s democratic party. She , along with other so-called “progressives” , are the reason Hillary is not our President. Beyond depressing.

  200. We are going to have race, gender and economic war like America has not seen in decades.

    But it won’t matter because we’ll be hiding in our basements while ISIS bombs us to the next planet after Trump gives them the war they long for.

  201. Little Barron has his own floor in TrumpTower, is bilingual and likes math and science…

    According to this: http://www.inquisitr.com/2889969/barron-trump-10-facts-about-barron-trump-donald-trumps-youngest-son/

    He must be the superAltChild.

  202. [I promise to try to shorten my messages. My volunteer org cohort hates my emails. They want 3 sentences.]

    We do not grade on message size 🙂

  203. Shadowfax, I can’t let you say what you said at 9:49.

    ———–
    I don’t even remember what I said, but feel free Upps…

  204. I will shut up for awhile and ponder my yard full of unicorns.

  205. Just listening to David Remnick, journalist, talk to Rachel Maddow about Obama interview. DR said, about Trump, “this is an unusual man” meaning not anything good. Turnipp lectured top news execs today about his coverage, instead of talking as a pres-elect. Ranted about Katy Turrick (?) and Martha Raddich (saying she cried when she didn’t), etc. Remnick said T is extremely alarming and we should stay alert.
    I actually think Donald Turnipp has a personality disorder that has the potential to cause havoc with our national interests. Remnick said all other country leaders are shocked and alarmed. We should be too.

  206. It comes down to what Hillary said throughout the campaign-Trump fundamentally does not have the temperament to be POTUS. I know I am a fossil at 54 as I don’t even have a Twitter or Face Book account, but this new reality president seems to react to the slightest insult, perceived or otherwise, like a 10 year old child. This new social media has it’s benefits, but in some respects I preferred a 10 cent telephone both.

  207. Gray Days, Trump DEFINITELY has a personality disorder. Probably more than one. Saying he “didn’t have the temperament” was putting it mildly. He’s dangerously crazy.

  208. Just because I need to what was the face of hope one more time:

  209. sorry..”needed to see”

  210. I know the pain Hillary is in, but she will enjoy a good life with family and friends and continue to do what she has always done-fight for those less fortunate.

  211. Sweet Hillary, good to see our hero doing what it takes her to recover.

    Love you Hillary.

    Hillary’s vote counts today, leading by 1,752,899

    Uncounted CA votes 2,078,794 (I don’t have an accurate webpage for all the other states and their uncounted votes).

    JB, I agree.

  212. I think what is bothering me the most right now is the way the Dem leadership has decided to roll over and play dead instead of fighting for vote audits. If you substitute Obama for Hillary, you bet your asses they would be screaming all over the place. But, as Upps always says, Hillary has no penis. Please take the time to read through this Twitter thread. It just spells it all out:

  213. Gabbard is a traitor.

  214. VotingHillary, on November 22, 2016 at 3:28 AM said:

    “Gabbard is a traitor..”

    Absolutely. She’s a Sanders supporter, after all.

    RE: the NC governor’s race, McCrory is showing exactly what Uppity was saying upstream. He’s doing what Repubs do. He’s losing by about 6,000 votes now and with further counting going against him, instead of conceding, he’s filed challenges in 50 of the state’s 100 counties. In one county, he’s using 336 questionable felon votes, in a state where his party deliberately disenfranchised thousands, to outrageously question the integrity of the result. He may even pull off throwing the vote to the Repub. controlled legislature and stealing this one.

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article116303778.html#storylink=latest_side

    But that’s what Republicans do: cheat, stonewall, threaten – and sit back and watch while Democrats roll over and play dead. With far more justice and so much at stake, we need to do what McCrory’s doing. Obama needs to just go ahead and make Garrick a recess appointment. The Department of Justice needs to audit the vote.

    Democrats need to do what’s at least ethically available to them. They must.

  215. VotingHillary, on November 22, 2016 at 2:11 AM said:

    “I think what is bothering me the most right now is the way the Dem leadership has decided to roll over and play dead instead of fighting for vote audits.”

    Voting, I’ve been fighting with WordPress every since I signed up for that one post. In case the previous comment wasn’t posted, this is a much shorter version:

    McCrory is doing exactly what your comment illustrated in North Carolina: filing challenges, demanding recounts, doing anything he can to try to change the outcome – and he really is wrong! The Dems should be doing this in all the contested states, and they have more reason and more justice on their side (e.g. they didn’t deliberately disenfranchise thousands and thousands of votes and then scream about a handful of dubious maybe coulda been felon votes)

  216. If you read nothing else today, read this thread.

  217. Uppity saw that thread earlier. Unbelievable. Add Argentina to the growing list. Remember Kurt Eichenwald’s very first article during the campaign that I got so excited about that it would derail Trump’s campaign. But here we are. Turning this wonderful country into a third world banana republic.

  218. I am dying, laughing…DJT clean this up or else…

  219. Yeah, it’s all disgusting. This is all about Trump using the presidency to serve his own business interests. But, you know, emails and life-saving Foundation are so much worse!

    Voting, that Matthew Chapman tweet storm is awesome. Saw it at work yesterday but no time to post. Glad you did.

  220. Fucking Trump supporters are still citing fake stories on Clinton Foundation to justify Trump’s corruption now. How the hell do we correct this false ‘Clinton did it too’ vicious cycle? Clintons were too successful in running a global charity that helped millions, you fuckers. And they did it after they got out of office and they never had this much business interest or conflicts when BC was elected. What is wrong with these people?

  221. Oh, goody! “Someone close to” Trump told Morning Joke “he” won’t prosecute Hillary. Someone close to Trump should tell him that under our Constitution presidents don’t prosecute anyone–especially their political opponents. I think he doesn’t want to stir up a hornets’ nest since she got MILLIONS more votes.

  222. prosecute her for what? should be the question.

  223. The media got played (no surprise). Trump calls them all in for “off the record” but meeting gets “leaked”. He’s playing to his base. Showing them that he’s putting that media in it’s place! The Nazis hate the media. So he has to show he’s a big strong man. I’m guessing he just gave them coffee. He never really stands up to people, remember the President of Mexico?
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-summons-tv-figures-for-private-meeting-and-lets-them-have-it/ar-AAkACCN?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

  224. Actually he did have a private server in Trump Tower with a covert channel to Russia.

  225. Imust, it benefits him to leak that he scolded them whether he did it or not. The media is again falling for his tricks writing about this ‘leak’.

  226. Look at these media mfers whining… There is not enough outrage left in me to go after these people. Third world country that is what this is going to be and Trump and his supporters (overt and covert like media) are responsible.

  227. the political press in this country is less than worthless and if people like the NY Post had done their job in the first place we would not be dealing with this BS. Trump has proven that he can do whatever the heck he wants because the press gave him a pass. He’s going to continue to run his businesses and enrich himself off the tax payers. The GOP is going to do nothing about it because they are less than worthless when it comes to all this too.

  228. You bought it suckers in the press. You failed and now you are going to suffer the consequences. In your quest to take Hillary down you brought it on yourselves. I have no sympathy for you and if you couldn’t see that Trump was going to do this then you are massive fools.

  229. Is anyone following what’s happening with the Dakota pipeline protest? This young woman is now having to have her arm amputated! I’m not linking to any pictures, but the ones I saw was absolutely shocking. Hardly any coverage in the press. Guess there’s not much of a story there!

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/22/dakota-access-pipeline-protester-seriously-hurt-during-police-standoff-standing-rock

  230. I agree pm, I think he leaked it on purpose. Like I said, he was playing to his base that he was going after the media. He screamed about them at every rally. So now his base sees him at his word….putting them in their place. The Nazis hate the media, did you hear that Richard Spencer guy? He said, “I’ll refer to them in the original German….” Then he went on to say a word in German that meant lying press that the Nazis used in the 1930s.

  231. Well, all I can say is that WWC (a euphemism for RSB – racist, sexist and bigoted) are truly deplorable. Hillary called it correctly. Like the video said you aren’t cheering the lynching but you sold them the rope and looked the other way. That’s still racist, we are only talking degrees of RSB. The Bernie folks are also RSB due to all the bs they used during the primary. Don’t we all remember the “mississippi berning” crap from them? It’s all about Make America White Again.

  232. Quoting a fellow named Mike Lumish, in a comment thread on the blog Driftglass:

    Being myself a rural white guy, with family all over the rural white guy parts of this continent, my fundamental problem with all this squawking about rural white guys and their alleged abandonment by the Democratic Party is the historical fact that the rural white guys could not run away fast enough from the Democratic Party in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Era.

    I remember events much the same way he does.

  233. Uppity, read the the tweet and retweeted. This stuff will never end. Democrats are silent. Democrats did fight when it came to preventing Hillary from being our candidate in 2008. They eat their own. I had sincerely hoped that we would never hear from Bernie again, but Democrats allowed the wolf in the hen house and he is having too much fun. Ups, I have tried to retweet some of your tweets and the retweet icon is grayed out.

  234. pm317, on November 22, 2016 at 10:27 AM said:
    Look at these media mfers whining…

    ———
    Oh, Dumptruck didn’t like his photo of a double chin, he needs more praise Wolfface. DaddyT got his little temper up and wants to control the media even more than before…

    Who else was such a dangerous nutjob…Adolf. Hand salute, chick heels and bend over.

  235. I think that Democrats are taking their cues from President Obama and from the media. Obama does mean well; but he doesn’t want to, or doesn’t know how to, fight the Republicans. And I think he is far too concerned about his popularity level. He should just appoint Garland, but will not do it. He should have done it long ago. He should call for an audit of the votes, because there is a real chance that Hillary actually won WI, MI and PA. But nothing.

    And the media has been criticizing Democrats for decades. Any time Democrats fight the Republicans on anything, the press clucks in disapproval. It’s like one child is so obnoxious and unruly that the parents give up on him, and then do all their criticizing to the other and nicer child. It is as if they accept the Republicans for what they are, and keep trying to “improve” the Democrats. Jonathan Chait, whom I really can’t stand, who absolutely adores Obama, criticized Hillary for not talking to her followers the night of the election He just wrote a piece, which many see as a heartfelt cry to the troops, in which he gratiutiously insulted Bill Clinton for some pardons at the end of his term (ignoring that he left office at 65% approval), and criticized Hillary for emails and potential conflicts of interest. Obama is his idol. Obama does not fight, at least not legislatively. Obama does not critiicize Republicans, except in a lighthearted manner

    The Clintons fight Republicans, and see them for what they are. The press somehow finds that declasse, and not playing by their fantasized set of good sportsmanship rules. Some of the media is simply on the side of the right-wing Republicans. Some of it is just consumed by their own individual self-interest. And then there are those who purport to be liberal, and love to right sententious pieces about better angels, but don’t want to see Democrats fight. And except for a very few, they turn up their pretentious noses at Hillary. Obama is their ideal. The problem is that Obama was not suited for doing wht needed to be done, which was the absolute marginalization of the Tea Party group. Not rallying his supporters to vote in large numbers in the midterms, cost Democrats 87 House seats, 9 Senate seats, and most of the governorships and state houses. Which is why we are where we are today That and the media not being able to help itself, and hectoring and carping atHillary for every possible thing; from her laugh, to not smiing enough, to her voice; not enough press conferences; using the word “Deplorables,” coming down with pneumonia; helping to run a wonderful charity foundation; giving some paid speeches as a private citizen; and of course sending emails from a secured private server. And finally, for the loss which really was a 2 million vote win, with massive voter suppression against her and perhaps hacked voting machines, but which would never have happened regardless, had the media not caused it.

  236. I read somewhere that donations are drying up for the Clinton Foundation every since Hillary lost the election. We need to get this out there. Instead of donating to the Democratic Party we need to start sending donations to the Clinton Foundation.

  237. This will really piss you off even more!

    ************************************************
    “At least a half-dozen Democratic electors have signed onto an attempt to block Donald Trump from winning an Electoral College majority, an effort designed not only to deny Trump the presidency but also to undermine the legitimacy of the institution.

    The presidential electors, mostly former Bernie Sanders supporters who hail from Washington state and Colorado, are now lobbying their Republican counterparts in other states to reject their oaths — and in some cases, state law — to vote against Trump when the Electoral College meets on Dec. 19.

    Even the most optimistic among the Democratic electors acknowledges they’re unlikely to convince the necessary 37 Republican electors to reject Trump — the number they’d likely need to deny him the presidency and send the final decision to the House of Representatives. And even if they do, the Republican-run House might simply elect Trump anyway.

    But the Democratic electors are convinced that even in defeat, their efforts would erode confidence in the Electoral College and fuel efforts to eliminate it, ending the body’s 228-year run as the only official constitutional process for electing the president. With that goal in mind, the group is also contemplating encouraging Democratic electors to oppose Hillary Clinton and partner with Republicans in support of a consensus pick like Mitt Romney or John Kasich.”

    [….]

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-electoral-college-faithless-trump-231731

  238. I don’t know why President Obama is even concerned with his popularity at this point. It’s his legacy that is going to be trashed utterly. He just wasted eight years of his life.

  239. You’re right, trixta. That did piss me off even more. We now have Sanders people who want to reject the person who received the most votes in favor of someone who wasn’t even on the ballot. They are just as deplorable as Trump and his collection of fascist thugs.

  240. Becoming more and more clear Hillary really won y’all. I don’t believe for one second she has this big a popular vote lead and states like PA, MI & WI went for him in the most consequential election of our lifetimes. Not one second.

    Read this article on how GOP rigged the election. This is why cheeto face was calling it “rigged” total bait & switch.
    http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

  241. Hi all:

    I have been so very depressed and had stopped posting. I have pulled the plug on everything else but have been lurking here. I wanted to share with you a letter that I wrote to my old alma mater asking for money. I went to university undergrad/grad in Ohio. Folks still live there but they have always been Democratic voters. Same with my brother in Colorado. So, as far has family divisions go, I was very lucky we were all Hillary Clinton supporters. In the coming months/years so much of what will happen will be out of our hands and against our own wishes. What I can say is that we all need to protest in our own ways. We need to stop funding/donating/giving to our own marginalization/subjugation/persecution/discrimination. If that means watching Oklahoma get hit by fracking or a tornado and not giving; then so be it. If it means a hurricane hits the Gulf Coast, and CA and NY turn off the taps; so be it. It will mean giving to blue states and blue causes and forgetting the rest. Hearts and minds do not get changed by appealing to the goodness in bad people; where none exists. It means that actions/votes have consequences, and the states that fund the middle need to draw a proverbial line in the sand. Here is my own version of resistance:

    Please be advised that I will no longer be giving donations to the University of Cincinnati.
    I am a 1992 graduate, and grew up outside the Dayton area. My own father was a professor and dept. chair at Wright State U.
    I remember the hardscrabble 1980s and I also know how greatly things improved for the area, and the state of Ohio, when Bill Clinton became President.
    Under his presidency, parents could take a tax deduction on the monies they paid for their children’s college.
    I have lived the past 20 years in Maryland, but have always had fond thoughts of my time at University of Cincinnati.
    However, the citizens of Ohio have decided to turn back the clock on advancement, inclusion, civility, and modernity.
    They have decided to side with dark forces that coincide with Orwell’s “1984” and Sinclair Lewis’s “It Can’t Happen Here”.

    Well, as a state university, in a red-state, I will no longer be donating to the University of Cincinnati or to University of Akron; my graduate school.
    I am well past singing Kumbaya. In 2000, the same forces told the American electorate that there was no discernable difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush. There were. But a malleable press, gullible electorate and third-party spoiler and we had 8 years of war, fallen soldiers, dead civilians, and squandered treasure.

    …and now, in 2016, states like Ohio, who receive much in the way of federal monies, decided to repeat history with an even more frightening oligarch at the helm. One with ties to the very enemy the Republicans of old used to vilify. Young people either decided to sit this one out, as they did in 2000, or they voted third-party and threw their votes to a man who can’t find Aleppo on a map and whose vice-presidential running mate has no problem with big government if it involves shafting students in the name of for-profit universities (SEE: Bill Weld-Decker College). The other spoiler is a woman who decries big pharma and big banks but has sizable investments in both. During the foreseeable lean times, she will be fine I am sure. Not so much your student body; just starting out in life.

    Well, I am now in my late 40s and seen one opportunity after another missed by the American electorate. The way to change hearts and minds is not thru understanding and common consensus. It is by turning off the taps. It means not giving to red states and their institutions. It means saying, do what you like, but don’t think for one minute you will get me to invest or underwrite it. It means saying to state Universities like Cincinnati, and to their student bodies: Actions have consequences.
    I believe that charity begins at home. I am a blue state resident and I will fund blue state ideals.
    University of Cincinnati will just have to find charity among its red state brethren.

    Sincerely,

  242. Uppity Woman, on November 22, 2016 at 7:59 AM said:

    And of course, turns out Ivanka was in on the call re: Argentina.

  243. I read an interesting fact, that Hillary won around 400 counties nationally out of around 3000. BUT, those counties make up about two-thirds of the national economy! That is a fact which deserves wide dissemination!

    So we see that the rural backwoods mostly reactionary places are holding the cities and progressive places hostage. This is then ultimately the disastrous culmination of what the Founders could likely not have envisioned. Control of the mechanisms of government by a distinct minority of people, and a very small minority of those who contribute to the economy. It would like your shiftless cousin being able to control the finances of everyone else in your family. And thus the electoral college, one of the instruments of this undemocratic setup, along with the Senate, must be eliminated. Those Democrats who want to preserve it, are very foolish. It is the way that the right-wing has ultimately been able to completely game our complex constitutional system, which they now seek to permanently control by suppressing the vote.

  244. Wonderful letter, Eurogirl70.
    You should send it to the Plain Dealer and the Cincinnati Enquirer.

  245. One thing about our media’s stories I want to point out. If they are filled with nothing but “unnamed source” or “confidential source” and NEVER have an on-the-record source, consider that article a waste of time…especially now in the age of Trump.

    Note the media hysteria re: Trump’s meeting yesterday, but next to nothing about Argentina. This is all smoke & mirrors media designed to distract from what should be the real story.

  246. Brassy Rebel

    I agree, Obama just doesn’t seem to have it in his personality to even defend his own achievements, even if ObamaCare was severely flawed.

    He knows he made history and he and his family will be set for life if he leaves with a high approval rating. Penis is all he needed.

  247. Eurogirl70

    Great letter, good idea.

    Turn off the blue tap to AltRight problem areas. It might become a new form of segregation.

  248. Eurogirl, an excellent comment! I had not seen yours when I just wrote about how the rural Red counties are actually controlling the country and the economy. So yes,, I agree that people in populous Blue states like CA and NY, try not to visit Red state tourist spots; try to avoid buying products from corporations situated there. It seems unkind, but the fact is that CA is subsidizing most of the rest of the country through taxpayer dollars. And yet the laws will be written by right-wing Republicans from mostly small rural dominated states, who actually hate the voters from Blue states, and will do everything to suppress their votes.

    I see that some people in CA are trying to get something on the ballot in 2018 to call for secession. Obviously, a very unlkely event. But it reflects the growing anger of urban populations which realize that they are being kept powerless by a cabal of small state representatives, and a thoroughly outmoded electoral college and legislative system. It occurred to me that if somehow a bunch of CA Democrats decided that this was the only way to save our country, they could agree to variously move to small Red states a year before the election, to establish residency, and then vote out a bunch of senators from such states. For example, it would only take a couple hundred thousand votes in ID nd WY and MT, to flip all those Senate races in a given year.

  249. Brassy, it’s not surprising that Sanders’ followers would ignore the popular vote as they challenge the EC and attempt to thwart Hillary’s victory yet again. FKRS!

    Hillary’s popular vote likely to reach 2012 levels:

  250. trixta, on November 22, 2016 at 3:39 PM

    ———-
    You must have been reading my mind. I was going back on past threads looking for that voting link to see if it had changed from the totals I saw at home this morning on my own computer.

    Thanks.

    Also, CA alone hasn’t counted over 2 million votes.

  251. You’re welcome, Shadow! Let’s hope Dave Wasserman’s projections are correct. Actually, I’m hoping she reaches a popular margin of 3 million votes. Go Hillary!

  252. We should stop calling the Alt Right, the Alt Right. The proper name is: Nazis.

  253. I’m with you trixta. Hillary deserves every vote she earned and the larger her win, the more it makes El Dumbo insecure and less legit than he already is.

    Will it change any EC votes? Not unless the Dems quit being big ass babies and fight like the Rethugs would in this situation.

  254. Am I delusional or is this a ray of hope? Article posted on Yahoo from HuffPo:

    “In light of the information tying the Trump campaign to voting suppression tactics nationally and specifically in key swing states, and with consideration for the Safe Harbor deadline of December 13th – the Strategic Institute of Intersectional Policy is calling for an immediate cessation to all activities related to the transfer of power to the Republican Party. This call includes firm requests for President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Lorretta Lynch, and the Democratic members of Congress to exercise their full authority to stop the transfer of power; investigate the states, organizations and people involved in the strategic design and implementation of voter suppression efforts, and postpone the electoral college accordingly.

    Read the entire article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-report-prompts-call-for-democrats-to-halt-transfer_us_5833faa1e4b0d28e552154be

  255. cats:
    You just beat by a second on the post above…Thank you.

    It’s good to learn that there are some others paying close attention to the wrongful and fraudulent outcome of this election.

    And more of voices on the same problem:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/11/18/election-audit-paper-machines-column/93803752/

  256. britgirls, I have been blasting what is going on at Standing Rock for days.

  257. Cats and Bellecat

    It is good that more people are coming out and calling for the Dems to get off their asses and fight, but unless those in current power step up and take legal action, it’s just the sound of millions renting their frustration.

  258. britgirl:

    My other post here re: Standing Rock was this:

    VotingHillary, on November 21, 2016 at 1:56 AM said:

  259. Get informed, follow thru…empower your rights…

    http://strategycampsite.org/strategy-to-stop-trump.html

  260. Shadow at 5:59 pm. Agreed. I just wrote 2page letters to my two senators ( one D and one R) and my R congressman. Not hopeful but very frustrated. What else can we do?

  261. Shadow:
    You are right, but let’s now push for those in power “to get off their asses and fight”…
    See the link I posted above…make it viral…

  262. Voting @ 5:57 pm: who has the power to stop this? I read obama intervened awhile back, why not this time?

  263. Standing Rock

    This is a freakin’ disgrace.

    Good, peaceful people get mowed down.

    I can well imagine that this is just a preview of what type of ‘police’ action we will see while El Dumbo rules our country.

  264. Some have been busy counting today, Rise Hillary, Rise!!

    63,802,343 Hillary votes

    62,043,708 Tangerine Man

  265. Eurogirl, I love your letter. I think we really need to hit these people in the pocketbooks. Boycotts, serious boycotts of any store that sells Trump family products or endorsed Trump. Plus, as you say, red/or swing states that voted for Trump. Iowa is top on my list as they have always annoyed me with their “first in the nation” status caucus. I have often referred to them as “the boss of us”, since they think they can tell us who our nominee should be. Boycott products from that state, corn for example. Florida oranges, etc.

  266. The title to this article says it all! At the very minimum this is how the Dem Party should be behaving.
    **********************************************************

    “Democrats won the most votes in the election. They should act like it.”

    More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than for Donald Trump. More Americans voted for Democratic Senate candidates than for Republican Senate candidates.

    So why aren’t Democrats acting like it? Why aren’t they trying to force Republicans, the media, and the emergent Trump White House to act like it?

    [….]

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/22/13708648/democrats-won-popular-vote

  267. “Activists Urge Clinton Campaign to Challenge Election Results in 3 Swing States”

    [….]

    “But some Clinton allies are intent on pushing the issue. This afternoon, Huma Abedin’s sister Heba encouraged her Facebook followers to lobby the Justice Department to audit the 2016 vote. “Call the DOJ…and tell them you want the votes audited,” she wrote. “Even if it’s busy, keep calling.”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/activists-urge-hillary-clinton-to-challenge-election-results.html

  268. I don’t want to see these “can you imagine if Hillary had done this’ tweets anymore. I want these people demanding full apology to Hillary from all the TV/media mfers about how they crucified her. That is the only way her reputation and good name can be restored (not that she cares but I do). #FullApologytoHillary in addition to #AudittheVote and nothing less.

  269. Read thread. One county in WI counted more votes counted than cast. I go back to the tweet I saw election night on Goldie Taylor’s Twitter feed about numbers mismatch in NC. Unfortunately I saw it and then I could not access her feed (Goldie’s twitter feed was all fucked up after I went back looking for it the next day or so).

  270. Cats333333@yahoo.com, on November 22, 2016 at 6:33 PM said:

    He did put a freeze on it. Not sure what happened after. What burns me the most is this was NOT the original route of the pipeline. It got re-routed because the people who would have been affected…read white people…protested so that’s how it wound up going through Standing Rock.

  271. That someone or something created “ghost” voters–votes without ballots–has been the suspicion of some computer experts all along. Wisconsin now presents evidence of this, at least in some counties. Alex Halderman of the University of Michigan is said to be the most widely respected computer security expert in the country. He’s no conspiracy theorist.

  272. Cats, I looked it up and the stoppage was “voluntary”, read both articles below for further detail:

    http://www.npr.org/2016/09/10/493436447/in-victory-for-protesters-obama-administration-halts-north-dakota-pipeline

  273. The rape victim was 13 years old and he liked her wearing blonde wig and told her she reminded him of his daughter. And why is this a secret? He said what word comes to mind for Ivanka, he said sex on Wendy Williams show — we linked that video here.

    Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen wrote that President-elect Donald Trump once asked, “Is it wrong to be more sexually attracted to your own daughter than your wife?” — but the quote was quietly removed before the syndicated column was published Tuesday.

    Trump was reportedly referring to his daughter, Ivanka, who was 13 years old at the time.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/trump-asked-if-its-wrong-to-be-attracted-to-his-daughter

  274. When can we say “our long national nightmare is over”?

  275. If you read Dan Solo’s Twitter thread which pm linked, he reports on one precinct in that county which had over 1100 votes which could not be traced to ballots. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those votes was for Trump. What are the odds that would happen by accident?

  276. Not taking long for the truth on Gabbard to come out:

  277. Brassy, we need a recount in FL, PA, WI, MI and NC at the very least. #AudittheVote

  278. Another thread about shenanigans for Trump. Has phone numbers to call.

  279. If there were ghost ballots in one precinct in WI, there are more such precincts in WI. And if they did that in WI, they did it in MI and PA and others. The idea that this was one strange aberration, is nonsensical. This would be the smoking gun which would potentially invalidate all of this–if somebody actually pushes this and very quickly.

  280. I hope this can be gotten out to all the newspeople who might put it on the air. Maddow, Reid, et al. Before it is too late.

  281. We are calling on Hillary to do so much this election… all in the face of great adversity and danger to this country but so much pain and suffering to her own well being. This is so unfair but necessary. I can’t get anymore outraged at the TV/media motherfuckers.

  282. So poll worker math is out of whack in certain important counties. huh…

  283. Eurogirl, I love your letter! Brava!

  284. pm317:
    “So poll worker math is out of whack in certain important counties. huh…”

    What does that mean?

  285. Yet another “gee, too bad this happened AFTER Nov. 8th”:

    Monday, Nov. 21st Wisconsin legislative districts illegally drawn by GOP, federal judges say

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/11/21/Wisconsin-legislative-districts-illegally-drawn-by-GOP-federal-judges-say/9011479776601/?st_rec=9231479794025

  286. trixta, on November 22, 2016 at 7:54 PM

    Absofrickinlutely!

  287. just repeating what is in those tweets above, ‘more votes counted than cast.’ I am not saying or know any more that.

  288. Earlynerd, I think that decision came about yesterday or the day before. So what happens to the elections done with the districts drawn that way?

  289. VotingHillary, on November 22, 2016 at 8:21 PM said:
    Here we go….

    —————
    Jeeze Louise, we all have been screaming it…and if we know it, I would bet my bottom dollar that the Clinton’s know it. Just like they did, down to the last detail in 2008.

    I bet Hillary will not give the nod if she doesn’t see Dems ready to really fight for it.

    Her no makeup appearance lately is more like, “Screw you, I am done being the only one that fights for anything in this frickin’ party! I am just going to coast a little while and watch all you fools try to figure out what to do next. You either want me, or leave me the Hell alone.”

  290. We are pushed around by people who do not produce much… thread

  291. Cats

    What else can we do?

    —–
    I think it’s good that you wrote your senators, I will do the same. I tweet to Hillary, mainly to let her know how much I appreciate all she has done, about how upset voters are, and my last tweet was to tell her that the Dem party needs to count all the votes that earned. They need to fight for her.

    I also will join any peaceful protest for things I am passionate about, and Hillary is at the top of that list.

    I used to blog over at PUMA Pac, back in the day, and we wrote and faxed to so many delegates, super delegates and Congress to try and help Hillary before the damn convention…our hands were sore. We even contacted the media with our research and that was a near lost cause.

    Maybe it will add up to nothing, but for me personally, Hillary is worth fighting for. She will never run again.

    I also talk to people…sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn’t.

  292. Oooo, Hillary is almost at 2 million more votes…

    Hillary 64,041,981

    Tangerine 62,116,835

    Hillary is up 1,925,146 votes

  293. 1,797,333 votes in CA uncounted,

    I have no idea about all the other states with uncounted votes.

  294. William, on November 22, 2016 at 9:16 PM

    Darn tootin’.

  295. my last tweet was to tell her (Hillary) that the Dem party needs to count all the votes that *SHE*earned. They need to fight for her.

  296. You are right Shadow, the Demo party needs to fight for her…
    let’s tell them…

  297. Bellecat, doing our best.

  298. pm317, on November 22, 2016 at 11:12 PM said:
    So what happens to the elections done with the districts drawn that way?

    pm, I don’t know. It seems to be a mess like so much else about this election.

    The article has this to say about the Rethugs possibly appealing to the Supremes:
    “The Supreme Court has been unsuccessful in prior attempts to resolve the issue of gerrymandering — and may fail to do so again, particularly if it is still without a ninth justice seat that was vacated early this year due to Antonin Scalia’s death.”

    Goddammit, Bamz, just appoint someone already!

  299. Why Obama has not appointed anybody for to replace the Scalia guy?

  300. I have to tell you all my call to the DOJ was probably worthless. I tried to stay composed asking for audits in PA, WI, MI and NC….and then I got choked up. Told them I have never made a call like this in my 57 years…and to please help our country.

    Sorry, all.

  301. Shadow, the Dems have been too busy jockeying for power amongst themselves to realize Hillary’s popular vote gives them some leverage. I know the election result was shocking to us all but they’ve got to get a grip and start fighting not just for us but especially for Hillary now that such doubts have been raised about certain swing states.

  302. FEC asks Trump campaign to fix 1,100 errors on October report.

    The Federal Election Commission said it identified about 1,100 errors involving contributions worth about $1.3 million dollars listed on the campaign’s October disclosure report, and have asked the president-elect’s team to fix them.

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/11/21/FEC-asks-Trump-campaign-to-fix-1100-errors-on-October-report/9041479754304/?st_rec=9011479776601

  303. sorry, socal, I forgot to refresh my page before posting what you did.

  304. Voting, thank you for making the call and letting the DOJ know how important the audit is to the country. It’s bound to have more impact as you described it.

  305. Our Hillary has more than 2 million more votes, 2,017,599 more than El Douche!!!

    Thank you voting and others.

    CA has 1,797,333 more to count, so that means that plenty more states are pounding the vote count.

    About time, the speed has picked up, so it seems even more serious now.

    Didn’t Hillary say she thought by the end of the count she would have more than 2 million beyond Trump’s count? (I think in her first speech after the election.)

  306. thank you votinghillary for calling! I left a message yesterday gonna try to get through later on today

  307. Ha, what did I say yesterday! Let us demand this in addition to everything else.

  308. Article on WI county over counting votes for the buffoon. Same county as in last night’s twitter thread.

    http://www.palmerreport.com/news/newly-revised-wisconsin-vote-totals-call-question-whether-donald-trump-won-state/193/

  309. Heck, no! They did a lot of things to hamper her early on and now they can’t stand in the way.

  310. I don’t know how to link it here, but there was an article in yesterday’s NewYork (not New Yorker) magazine, citing the academics that are urging a recount in states that show a statistical discrepancy in electronic voting. They have contacted Podesta about this. The article lists the deadlines for recounts, but it also lists one of the reasons that Clinton likely won’t go through with it- the Administration’s desire for a smooth transition and resistance to a recount. I am so disappointed that Obama bent over backwards to prematurely pave the way. It was unnecessary to jump the gun. Why did he do it?

  311. pm, I don’t know if that is true about the “White House”, but if it is, it’s outrageous. And just when I was beginning to warm to Obama.

  312. Without WH backing, there is nothing Hillary can do. Obama should not be deciding this. It’s OUR votes at stake. And if a foreign power hacked voting results, that’s the same as a foreign invasion. The president should be protecting national security, not enabling breaches.

  313. Brassy, she/he says the source for that is an article in her TL. I didn’t look for the article.

  314. yeah, liliIam it is depressing what Obama did, why have the orange buffoon, the very next day? But let us hope there is enough from people who have a bigger voice to silence them. Hillary should listen to us.

  315. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/18/the-task-now-for-conservatives-hope-for-the-best-assume-the-worst-rebuild-our-movement.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

    I believed the kompromat tapes, thoroughly known and discussed in the U.S. and European intelligence communities, would emerge, and Trump’s deep, long-denied ties to Russian interests would convince national security voters that the Bewigged Manchurian would present Putin with the greatest intelligence coup in history, and put our nation at risk.

    As Trump mainstreamed racial animus, shrugged at David Duke, embraced the alt-Reich’s support, attacked Muslims with unbridled ferocity, and promised mass roundups and deportations of Latinos, I also believed Americans of all races and creeds would be repulsed by his behavior.

  316. I saw some pieces on the recount and contacting of Podesta. I did not see the Obama transition stuff. Pure speculation without a shred of proof. Let’s try no to fall for the Republican fake fact horseshit. We’re so accustomed to it we almost forget where a crack like that would come from.

  317. Is Rick Wilson (the author of the article PM linked to above) dishonest, or stupid?

    Ever since conservatism began ascending in the 1960s, its motive power has always been the vacuum-skulled bigotry of the Average White Murkan.

    The Pure Left believes that if only the Democratic Party gave itself over to Pure Leftism and ran Saint Bernard as the candidate, the non-elite majority of the White Tribe would flock to the Pure Leftist banner of economic populism.

    This ignores the historical fact that the non-elite majority of the White Tribe began abandoning the Democratic Party in droves before the ink dried on the Civil Rights Act. “Eeeuuwwww! Hippies and heathens and n****r-lovers! Grrrrosss!”

    The White Tribe abandoned the Democratic Party before the DP ever “abandoned” the White Tribe.

    I was born into the White Tribe, but somehow I overcame its cultural conditioning, Ascended Madoka be praised. All too many members of my tribe are “stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears”.

    I deserve a better tribe, which I find here to some extent, so thanks to all of you. :mrgreen:

  318. I don’t mind this attitude/approach–for now! The important thing is to initiate the auditing of certain swing states where discrepancies abound.

    *******************************************************
    “The election probably wasn’t hacked. But Clinton should request recounts just in case.”
    (11/23/16)

    http://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/11/23/13726784/trump-clinton-election-audits

  319. I don’t know whether President Obama indeed is telling Hillary not to contest the vote, but such would seem in keeping with his nature. His rather bland optimism, his wish to avoid conflict with others at all costs, are as much a symbol of his presidency as the eloquent speeches about abstract concepts. We are here with the very strong possibility that the election vote was both suppressed and possibly hacked; and that Russia has done everything they can to elect Trump, who very likely will give them all of the intelligence briefings, and indeed do everything they say. And this is not a major crisis? We are supposed to just let it go because it would be unseemly and lack politesse to bring it up before it is too late?

    I wonder how history will judge Obama. Probably well, because of the symbolic statement made by his election, because of no scandals, and an improved economy. But there is more to being a great President than those things. One could make a strong case that Obama squandered the Congressional mandate he was given in ’08; saw the Tea Party rise and did not appreciate the great danger there; didn’t do significant campaiging in ’10 and ’14, which helped caused the takeover of the country by the right-wing Republicans, who used it to gerrymander the Congress and pass illegal voter suppression laws. Then he didn’t do a thing to stop the Senate from simply shutting down his crucial Supreme Court nomination. Then when Hillary won the popular vote by 2.5 million or so, he didn’t do anything about the real evidence of rigged voting, but instead complained that Hillary was lazy and didn’t campaign enough in Iowa (a state that he famously won in the primary by having Illinois residents bussed across state lines to vote). So if this country becomes a white nationalist fascist theocracy which is controlled by Russia, how much of that is his fault, despite all of his well meaning intentions and soaring speeches?

  320. Uppity Woman, on November 23, 2016 at 12:06 PM
    I saw some pieces on the recount and contacting of Podesta. I did not see the Obama transition stuff. Pure speculation without a shred of proof. Let’s try no to fall for the Republican fake fact horseshit. We’re so accustomed to it we almost forget where a crack like that would come from.

    —-

    When reading about this, the first thing that popped into my head about Obama wanting to block a recount was that this is something that Tangerine and his altThugs would do to try and deflate the drumbeat on Hillary’s rise in the vote count.

  321. This might be that article, there are other sites on google. It was also linked on the blog by someone earlier.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/activists-urge-hillary-clinton-to-challenge-election-results.html

  322. If indeed there is no recount of the vote, which is obviously likely, the Hillary victory by 2.5 million votes must be much more than a depressing footnote. It stands for the fact that the Republicans got a distinct minority of votes. They have no legitimate mandate to enact legislation which would take away social programs and rights from the majority which did not vote for any of it. The Democrats in Congress should yell, “2.5 million votes!” over and over again. It is not just a number. It is the amount by which the majority of voters exceeded the minority. It is their statement of where they want the country to go.

    They will say, “Well, we won the electoral vote, so we are in office, and we can do anything we like.” But there is no moral legitimacy benind it. It would be tyranny of the minority against the majority. This is not a sports event where one side might win a harmless game because of some arcane rule. This is America, where all people are said to be equal in rights. The argument which has to be made again and again, is that the right-wing Republicans have no moral right or popular mandate to try to take away social programs and rights from the majority of voters who didn’t vote for any of it. It would be somewhat akin to apartheid. The statement has to be made loudly and continuously, or otherwise the media will attempt to normalize all of this.

    For a little bit of cheering up, there is an interview with Nancy Pelosi done yesterday by Joan Walsh of The Nation. Pelosi is certainly not my favorite politician, but I think she is a fighter, at least given her resources. She will do what she can to at least contest the Republican agenda.

  323. AUDIT THE VOTE CALL TODAY, DOJO @ 202-514-2000

  324. Hooray, it made it to mainstream CNN:

    Computer scientists urge Clinton campaign to challenge election results

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/hillary-clinton-challenge-results/index.html

  325. Actually, I am pleased to announce the hacking story has made my local news and they are reporting it correctly. That it is computer scientists, NOT ACTIVISTS, who discussed their findings w/ HRC’s camp.

  326. Not as much possibility as the NYMag article made it sound like, but still decent evidence to demand an audit in several states. Has info on deadlines for audit requests:

    View story at Medium.com

  327. The Talk on Twitter:

    “If the Repubs lost a close election, w/FBI meddling and foreign hacking, THIS WHOLE THING WOULD BE RECOUNTED.”

    Every. damn. district. DO IT

  328. That article in the Daily Beast blames the election of Trump on Hillary. Hey, guy, you need to admit that we have huge problems in this country if people will vote for Trump. The responsibility for Trump is squarely on the shoulders of the GOP that nominated him and those that voted for him. There was no doubt who Trump was or what he stood for. He screamed it loud and clear.

    And as far as Obama, I would not be surprised that he is more concerned with a smooth transition than anything. If there’s one thing we know about Obama is that he will run from a fight when all his might.

  329. Arizona stopped counting on November 11 with est. 80% in…

    Why are they not counting the votes? have they finished the count?

    Anybody from Arizona that can bring some light into this?

  330. NW Luna, on November 23, 2016 at 2:41 PM said:

    NW Luna, I was just about to post a link to that article. Glad I refreshed the page first.

    In the article, the U. Michigan computer security expert who wrote it says that it is possible to hack individual machines because the software is put onto transfer devices from a common source, all at one time. It seems feasible to me. Boot sector hacks of freakin floppies have been around for twenty years, and that’s stone age compared to now.

    He also says that detecting malware is next to impossible, but that a manual recount of paper ballots, where they exist, should provide convincing verification one way or the other.

  331. what is Stein up to?

  332. From above link…

    …Stein told me “We’re filing in Wisconsin Friday because the votes were cast on proven hack-prone machines. This has been a hack-ridden election.” She said that it will be most difficult to recount the machines in Pennsylvania. When asked why the democrats are not bringing this action, Stein told this reporter that “Democrats do not act to protect the vote even when there is dramatic evidence” of tampering.

    In this instance, Jill Stein is correct. Democrats in the Clinton/Gore wing of the party have demonstrated an unwillingness to fight questionable election results. Obama was different. He was very pro-active both as a candidate and as president when it came to dealing with issues of voting and the integrity of the election system.

    Stein is firmly in the camp that believes the election was hacked. Election experts are calling on Hillary Clinton to request a recount because it is possible that something was amiss with this election. So far, the Clinton campaign has not made a move towards challenging the results in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. If Clinton doesn’t do it, Jill Stein will.

    The American people deserve to know that the truth about the 2016 election. If the election was clean, that needs to be confirmed. If the election was tampered with, a recount is a must.

    What’s clear though is that the Green Party has just dropped a Thanksgiving surprise on Trump and the Republican Party that will be well worth watching in the weeks to come.

  333. I don’t trust Jill Stein. I seem to remember Ralph Nader pulling a similar stunt in 2004 that came to moot. And we don’t know if Hillary is working behind the scenes or not.

  334. I hope the recount and voter suppression investigation happens. Just letting this go without knowing disenfranchises voters and that hurts our country.

    I am trying not to raise my hopes too high, but I will be screaming if it doesn’t happen.

    Having even a tiny bit of hope for Hillary these days is really painful, I am sure that having the rug pulled out from under her so many times, Hillary must be less than optimistic too.

  335. What is Stein up to? Promoting Jill Stein and attacking Hillary as usual. As for Politicus, a publication I ceased reading a year ago because of their obvious pro-Sanders tilt, I have no idea what they are talking about that the Clinton-Gore wing doesn’t protect the integrity of the vote and Obama does. I won’t even go into how the Democratic establishment took votes from Hillary and gifted them to Obama who happily accepted them. I have tried to put this behind me, but there are people who obviously need to be reminded.

    I wonder if the Green party even knows that if they request a recount, they have to pay for it. And it can cost a million or more.

  336. Heard on MSNBC that Stein was raising $ to ask for the recount. If DNC won’t back Hillary,I’ll send $ to Jill. Anyone know where or how?

    It may be my final gift to Hillary and if it ends up in Jill’s pocket,well, then I was a sucker. But I strongly believe we need to investigate this stuff….something smells rotten in WI,MI and PA. I remember watching a bit on MSNBC where they talked about how so many of PA’s voting machines have no paper back up that could be used if a recount was asked for.

  337. Considering Stein’s ties to Mother Russia I don’t know that I trust her either. But if it gets them to recount the votes In those 3 states I guess I can’t complain.

  338. Maybe Stein is sure the results were hacked because her buddy, Vlad, told her over dinner in Moscow last December.

    It’s your money, but I wouldn’t send money to Stein if she said she was going to use it to adopt stray puppies.

  339. I’m with you Msdsal, if Stein is the pusher for this needed recount action, I’ll donate to make it happen.

    The Demo party is just sucking its thumb…not showing any support for our Hillary…

  340. Sanders and his supporters, mostly white male call themselves ‘the dirtbag left’; may be they should be called ‘the scumbag left.’

    http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/11/blaming-clintons-base-for-her-loss-is-the-ultimate-insult.html

  341. Thanks Julies9164. Think I’ll wait and see what Hillary’s campaign decides before jumping on the Stein wagon.Pretty sure there aren’t quite so many Russophiles w/Hillary’s group.
    I just really think we need to be looking @ these election results w/a fine toothed lice comb. 🙂

  342. I am $ tapped out supporting our girl. The only candidate I have and ever will support.

    I don’t care who gets the recounting and investigations going, as long as it gets down.

    It should be paid for by the DNC, God knows they would benefit the most from a Hillary win.

  343. “Ok, people. Jill Stein (!) is raising money today on her website http://www.jill2016.com/recount_splash for a recount of WI, MI, PA.

    She’s raised almost 1 mil after only a few hours. Must raise $1.1 mil by Friday in order to get a recount of WI; the others’ deadline are Monday. She’s a candidate–of course she can do this. We didn’t think of that! She’s not being threatened with being locked up…

    Maybe she got riled up when Trump announced he’s cutting NASA’s climate change division.” *cross post from RD.

    I myself donated.

    This is the kind of coalition we need to have to save our democracy.
    Let’s unify for our Country.

    i:e; that’s what the repubs of all agendas did to hijack the election, they unified behind an unlikely leader..

  344. Haha

    Spokeswoman: Elton John will not be performing at Trump’s Inauguration

  345. *cross post from RD:
    “Scientists all over the country are concurring… first IL, now MIT & UC Berkeley. Possibility of voting being hacked by Russians must be investigated, and votes recounted. One small WI county revised its totals after the total number of ballots counted for Trump exceeded the total number of residents. Here we go!”

  346. Fuck Jill Stein! She has to be kidding. I would’tn spit on her if she were on fire much less give her money, which she will use to take another trip to Russia like she did to her donors.

    I KNEW this woman had something up her sleeve. She would be doing this if she didn’t. She’s pond scum and she helped to elect donald trump. If you donate to this POS there is TRULY something wrong with you.

  347. Might Jill Stein become a “useful idiot” instead of just an idiot?

  348. Updated 11/23/16 06:53 PM EST

    Clinton’s lead in the popular vote surpasses 2 million

    http://www.politico.com/news/2016-elections

  349. Perhaps Stein is going forward with this lawsuit to raise her national visibility or to avoid being labeled the Nader of 2016. In any case, I’m not comfortable knowing she’ll have control over the recount lawsuits because of her ties to Russia. I’d like the DNC or Hillary to sue for a multi-state recount instead.

  350. trixta:
    The Demo Party is not doing it and probably never will. Over and over they fail to show spine for our Hillary

    This scenario of recounting because the comp scientists say there *might* be something off is the worst possible position for Hillary to be in.

    Beside, if there is a recount you better believe there would be representation from the other candidates; Hillary’s and the Trump’s…

    And another major key factor is “deadlines”; do it now or never…
    the Demos have been stoned and pointing fingers for the past 15 days.

  351. There’s not been any votes count report in Arizona since November 11.

    “Thursday: More than 400,000 votes left to count in Arizona; final total to come next week. The Republic | azcentral.com 8:06 p.m. MST November 10, 2016”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/10/counting-early-ballots-resumes-arizona-maricopa-county-pima-county/93589690/

  352. Check this on:
    http://www.hillaryhq.com/

    Did Trump Really Win?

  353. Belle the Democratic party is no longer the Democratic party. The socialists hijacked it and they don’t give a fuck about Hillary. Or you. Or me. The Bros will piss all over everything and make a shambles of it, then walk away because they will never get what they want. It’s all about free shit for them. Bernie wants the party for his BFFs the CPUSA, the miserable old Castro wannabee who can’t stand the thought that a girl beat his wrinkled old ass.

    Give it up on them. No kidding. They’re another party altogether. They don’t represent any of us any longer. They fell off the left cliff. You have two party choices now. Off the crazy left cliff or off the crazy right cliff.

    I’m not into them anymore.

  354. I doubt if we’ll get the ending we want, but I’m all for screwing with these crooked states and making them recount. And since it will undoubtedly piss off dump and his evil cohorts, so much the better.

    The Democratic parties wimpiness still astounds me. So sick of them. Where do people like us go?

  355. Happy Thanksgiving, Uppities. To start the day out right:

  356. I love this comment:

  357. Voting, that picture of those young women with Hillary is darling.

  358. Bunch of Bernie EC people are not voting for Trump.

    Looks like that ‘protest’ vote didn’t pan out too well for them, the little fucks.

  359. Voting thank you for that sweet photo of Hillary.

    Looks like our girl blew her hair dry and looks a little less sad in this photo with two young women giving her a big hug.

    It is wonderful to see Hillary get the love she deserves.

    You go Hillary ❤

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.

  360. Voting:
    What a beautiful picture of our Hillary, one more for the archives…
    Happy Thanksgiving, uppityville…

  361. Just for you, Upps:

  362. From article referenced in a Paul Krugman tweet today:

    …The second and more serious objection is that frivolous recount requests could compromise public faith in the election results. Throughout the campaign, Hillary Clinton stressed the importance of accepting the results of the election. Skeptics worry that if Clinton were to request recounts without any tangible evidence that the original count was wrong, it could legitimize conspiracy theories and ultimately undermine confidence in the election result — and the democratic process more generally.

    But in the era of hackable voting systems, that gets things precisely backward.

    http://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/11/23/13726784/trump-clinton-election-audits?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=entry&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

  363. Annie, the Democrats are the only alternative to a complete right-wing takeover of our country. That might be what happens, anyway, but it will certainly happen if the Democrats split between the Sanders wing and a more moderate wing. No third party can win in this country, the rules are set to prevent that.

    My best guess is that Sanders or Warren will not be the nominee. I can see Corey Booker, for better or worse, because many people will look for another Obama. Probably someone like that is the only way to stave off the Sanders folks. Actually, the way that primaries are set up, an AA candidate has a really good chance every time. I think that the Sanders people are far less in numbers than they pretend to be, like Birnam Wood. They are good at caucuses. He would have gotten beaten badly by Trump, not won by 3 million votes like Hillary. The Democrats need strong leadership to do something in 2018. I would have preferred Dean as chair, because he did well in midterms in 2006., and 2010 was not his fault. Right now, Democrats’ numbers are very depleted in Congress and Statehouses. Hillary, if she had been portrayed legitimately by the media, as a moderate-liberal with great economic plans and foreign policy leadership, could have rebuilt this party. Obama will try to have a hand in during retirement, and I don’t know if this is good or bad, either. As bad as the Democrats might be at times; and certainly I have not liked their leadership and wimpiness for years, they are the only alternative to fascism and a permanent Republican majority presiding over a desiccated country.

  364. Ha, ha, undermine faith in the electoral system. You’ve got the FBI interfering; the Russians hacking and creating fake leaks; Assange collaborating with them; the Republicans shamelessly suppressing votes everywhere and then cheering about it. You’ve got a candidate winning the popular vote by 3 million, and losing the electoral vote because of gerrymandering and voter suppression. If the Republican candidate were down ahead by 3 million and had lost the electoral vote, their people would literally be marching on Washington with assault weapons. The media would be calling for Hillary to not take the oath, because she could not govern. That is how far our democracy and discourse have fallen. So spare me the pontifications by fools and collaborators about how the Democrats might undermine our faith in the system. The faith couldn’t be any less than in any time in our history. Count the damn votes, and call out voter suppression. We want an informed populace, not a cowed and subservient one. And eff all of the fascistic, corrupt, hypocritical, deceitful and anti-democratic Republicans.

  365. William, on November 24, 2016 at 1:40 AM said:
    The Democrats need strong leadership to do something in 2018.
    _________________________________________________

    Two words…Chuck Schumer. Dems are screwed for the forseeable future.

  366. Even if any recount or audit showed this exemplary candidate that she’d actually won, I doubt that she’d want this cold and broken a Hallelujah.

    She deserves her respite from the sexism that governs the U.S. of A. The question for the rest of us is: what do we do about it?

  367. OK, here’s the Stein scheme:

    “Here are the filing fees and deadlines for each state:

    Wisconsin: $1.1 million by Nov 25
    Pennsylvania: $0.5 million by Nov 28
    Michigan: $0.6 million by Nov 30
    Those are filing fees alone. The costs associated with recounts are a function of state law. Attorney’s fees are likely to be another $2-3 million, then there are the costs of the statewide recount observers in all three states. The total cost is likely to be $6-7 million.

    You can donate up to $22,700 per person by contributing up to $2,700 on this page PLUS $10,000 to each of the following state Green Parties that have allowed contributions to kickstart the recount initiative:

    Massachusetts: http://www.green-rainbow.org/electoral_reform
    Ohio: http://www.ohiogreens.org/press/steinbaraka-campaign-launches-recounts-donations-needed

    The $2700 is the maximum for a candidate contribution. She can use the money raised on her page to pay down her campaign debts and then claim not enough raised at the other two Green Party sites.

    What an asshole.

  368. OK, let’s talk the Stein “Ponzi scheme”/vote recount. She has now changed her website info:
    _____________________________________________________
    Here are the filing fees and deadlines for each state:

    Wisconsin: $1.1 million by Nov 25
    Pennsylvania: $0.5 million by Nov 28
    Michigan: $0.6 million by Nov 30
    Those are filing fees alone. The costs associated with recounts are a function of state law. Attorney’s fees are likely to be another $2-3 million, then there are the costs of the statewide recount observers in all three states. The total cost is likely to be $6-7 million.

    You can donate up to $22,700 per person by contributing up to $2,700 on this page PLUS $10,000 to each of the following state Green Parties that have allowed contributions to kickstart the recount initiative:

    Massachusetts: https://greenrainbow.nationbuilder.com/electoral_reform
    Ohio: http://www.ohiogreens.org/press/steinbaraka-campaign-launches-recounts-donations-needed
    _____________________________________________________

    Most folks don’t have $2701 -$10,000 to donate. So small donations are being made at her CAMPAIGN site which is where the link is attached…hence the $2700 limit per person. Why does this matter? Because she can later claim she didn’t know what amount was for the vote recount and what amount was to help her PAY DOWN HER DEBT. It’s why she added the MA and OH listings so she can say no one had to donate at her PRESIDENTIAL site.

    BIG FUCKING SCAM!… and a nice “publicity” stunt all in one PLUS anyone who donated is now on the Stein/Green Party mailing/email list.

  369. Upps…get me out of the “dungeon”.

  370. Love the Sherrod tweet!

  371. UPPITIES, PLEASE DON’T DONATE TO STEIN…I figured out her little Ponzi-scheme….once Upps or a mod gets me out of the “dungeon”, you will understand.

  372. Voting, would that be the suddenly raised estimates for the extra expenses — on top of the less-expensive filing fees — that have appeared on her website after the donations started to come in?

  373. NW, that plus she’s only allowing a max of $2700 to be donated at the site the link if connected….that is her CAMPAIGN SITE. And she added those two Green Party sites as cover so when she uses that money to cover her campaign debt she can say folks had other options and she had no way to know if the money was for the recount or her debt.

    BIG ASS FRAUD!

  374. Oh, damn, damn, damn – just realized the ISS is another Dump hostage.

    The U.S. has been dependent on Russian launches ever since the Republican-lite no-frills economy dumped NASA.

    One of the latest:
    http://www.space.com/34433-soyuz-rocket-launches-us-russian-space-crew.html

    Our people in orbit are dependent on this predator-in-chief and his allies. Whatever could go wrong?

  375. HuffN’Puff

    Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein’s call to raise funds to support vote recounts in three key states was met with ease late Wednesday, with the fundraiser reaching its $2 million goal in less than one day.

    Stein’s press director announced Wednesday afternoon that the Green Party candidate needed an initial $2 million to support recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, three states where President-elect Donald Trump performed better than expected.

    Within hours, Stein’s fundraiser rapidly gained traction. Just after 11 p.m. EST, supporters had donated $1.9 million, then it climbed past $2 million before midnight. The goal was surpassed about eight hours after Stein’s announcement was delivered over Facebook Live.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jill-stein-recount-fundraiser_us_58366a41e4b000af95eddc30

  376. This is such a massive fraud being perpetrated by Stein at the expense of HRC voters. Those that already donated..when…and I do mean WHEN Stein announces she doesn’t have enough money to cover all the expenses to cover the costs she listed on her website update…IMMEDIATELY call you credit card company to dispute the charge.

  377. “The Demo Party is not doing it and probably never will. Over and over they fail to show spine for our Hillary.”
    ********************************************

    I agree, bellecat.

  378. I don’t care who pays to have the votes recounted and investigated, just as long as it happens. I am sure that there are not very many greenies that donated for this, but the majority came from Dems.

  379. You’re all out of your minds.

    Try asking yourself why that thief Jill Stein, who used campaign money for a trip to Russia, and who said the very worst things about Hillary ever and worked like a demon to see her defeated, would want to help her.

    Dumb shits will fall for anything Jill Stein suggests. I’m sorry but this is just plain ludicrous.

    Donate your money to a charity and stop being reactive. It looks desperate and ridiculous. If Stein thought of anybody but herself, she wouldn’t have been in that race and Hillary would have won Michigan.

    Note Hillary shows no interest. She probably wants to tell this country to go fuck itself. I am not going to beg you not to be a Stein fool. A fool is a fool and can’t be cured. I can’t help you.

    Fact is, only in America can a woman get more than 2 million more votes than a white male fake reality show ‘star’ who lives off of OPM, and still lose. That’s the way it is here in phony “Equality Land”.

    Take today and find something to be Thankful for today, consider not acting like your life is over, and it would be helpful to not be a sucker opening yourself up to disappointment from a known User. Or send your money and continue victimizing yourselves. It’s what Jill is counting on.

    She’ll have plenty left over and spray paint something for you.

  380. I’m with Voting. Jill Stein is a con artist like Trump. She doesn’t do anything unless there is some tangible gain for her. We know she can’t win a recount, but she knows it will give her leverage with Democrats–not to mention new marks for fundraising. And that’s assuming she uses donations for stated purpose, which Voting rightly suggests, she may not. When you donated, did you have to leave your email address? I have never been to a site where that wasn’t required. Last thing I want in my in-box are emails from Jill Stein.

    I prefer to wait on this. I trust Hillary to do the right thing. I always have and always will. She has never let me down.

  381. I tried to tell them last night, Uppity, but they wouldn’t listen. I’m not as good at tough love as you.

  382. I also think it’s wrong that “losing” candidate MUST request recount. Anyone who is a registered voter in the state should be able to make the request and raise 💰 for that purpose alone.

  383. Rebel it’s best not to waste your time. Anybody who would fall for anything Jill Stein “offers” can’t be helped.

    This shit is bordering on hysteria and she knows it. She’s loving this.

    I’m close to done with this shit. I’m not going to throw what’s left of my life out for this nonsense. I can only suggest everyone else not do it either. But that’s all I can do and that’s all you can do as well.

    It’s like trying to warn someone not to marry that person. You end up no good and they MUST learn the hard way.

  384. I am sure that there are not very many greenies that donated for this, but the majority came from Dems.

    Much to Jill Stein’s glee.

  385. There IS no Democratic Party. There is no Republican Party. Just fascists and socialists destroying everything in their wake. And each other.

    No thanks. I’ll just watch.

  386. It is hysteria, especially since everyone agrees that Pennsylvania can’t be recounted. No paper trail.

  387. I would like to see a forensic audit maybe not because I am hoping she will win but to vouch for and maintain the integrity of the voting system — let people be afraid next time if they think they can cheat. There are too many discrepancies not the least of which is the glaring popular vote and this:

    http://tdmsresearch.com/2016/11/10/2016-presidential-election-table/

    According to the exit polls conducted by Edison Research, Clinton won four key battleground states (NC, PA, WI, and FL) in the 2016 Presidential Election that she went on to lose in the computerized vote counts. With these states Clinton wins the Electoral College with a count of 306 versus 232 for Trump. Clinton also won the national exit poll by 3.2% and holds a narrow lead in the national vote count still in progress.

    Exit polls were conducted in 28 states. In 23 states the discrepancies between the exit polls and the vote count favored Trump. In 13 of these states the discrepancies favoring Trump exceeded the margin of error of the state. See Table and its footnotes below.

  388. I feel bad for the Dems (perhaps mostly Hillary supporters) who donated money to Stein. They are hurting. In a democracy, there should have been in place checks and verification and that there is none and that we have to accept a crook, a deranged person hijacking the office with a few thousands of votes is disconcerting.

  389. Watch this video and understand exactly where he is coming from. Like others said in that TL, it is his own bio in 2 mins. What a monster they elected. He is mentally unstable.

  390. Now that I read it, the fraud scenario seems the most likely explanation for Stein’s maneuver.

    *dons freshly folded, outrageously chic chapeau de Reynolds Wrap*

    However, a different idea occurred to me. If Stein is another puppet of Putin–maybe Putin does not want a strong, confident President Trump, any more than he wants a strong, confident President Clinton.

    After all, a strong President Trump might stab Putin in the back someday, just as Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back in 1941.

    Maybe Putin wants to find some evidence which would give the Electoral College a reason to choose Clinton after all, which, he hopes, would cause anywhere from 2 to 8 years of gridlock-on-steroids between President Clinton and a bitter GOP Congress, which would leave Putin a freer hand in global affairs.

    If Putin were really lucky in this scenario, the rowdy elements among the Trump Chumps might even riot, to the point of forcing our Federal Government to bring at least some of our troops home, which would leave Putin an even freer hand in global affairs. Maybe he could even overthrow our puppet government in the Ukraine, and restore his puppet government, which our puppet government overthrew a few years ago, while we were preoccupied with putting down the domestic strife.

    I know, foil-hat stuff–but whaddaya think? 😛

  391. I am so screwed. Fascism here, Fascism in India, if I ever thought I could escape to my country of origin.

    This article is about India’s election in 2014 of Modi and in my view has parallels to what is happening here.

    http://qz.com/844672/along-with-narendra-modis-rise-india-has-displayed-classic-signs-that-foreshadow-fascism/

  392. Let us be clear. India’s Modi is no where near the lunacy and sadism this guy here is exhibiting. There is more I can say that is positive about Modi but it will take too much effort to paint the context and it is irrelevant to this audience.

  393. Completely agree with this.

    https://www.wired.com/2016/11/hacked-not-audit-election-rest/

    After an election marred by hacker intrusions that breached the Democratic National Committee and the email account of one of Hillary Clinton’s top staffers, Americans are all too ready to believe that their actual votes have been hacked, too. Now those fears have been stoked by a team of security experts, who argue that voting machine vulnerabilities mean Clinton should demand recounts in key states.

    Dig into their argument, however, and it’s less alarmist than it might appear. If anything, it’s practical. There’s no evidence that the outcome of the presidential election was shifted by compromised voting machines. But a statistical audit of electronic voting results in key states as a routine safeguard—not just an emergency measure—would be a surprisingly simple way to ease serious, lingering doubts about America’s much-maligned electoral security. “Auditing ought to be a standard part of the election process,” says Ron Rivest, a cryptographer and computer science professor at MIT. “It ought to be a routine thing as much as a doctor washing his hands.”

  394. Taking a big risk here. I am reading and agreeing with all the comments above. But I am going to say what I have been thinking for 10+ years about my Democratic Party, on a side topic. It is not pc and not kosher, so be warned.

    I come from a poor white family in the south. 80% of them remain poor and have never had outside resources or “a leg up” given that they live in a rural area. My point: no Dem in many years has used the phrase “we need to help the poor and those who need retraining programs regardless of their ethnicity or geographic location.” The focus has been on minority groups, often in inner cities, as if poor whites don’t suffer poor health care and poor education regardless of where they live.

    I know that educated folks voted for Trump. But I also know that most of my poor and the now better off relatives, with two exceptions, voted for Trump also. The two exceptions are the poorest but were not raised in a church.

    What many poor whites see: Look at the depictions on TV and in magazines about poor folks and look at all the sports figures surrounded by poor kids they are helping. There is usually one white or near-white kid in the group. No social activities or training programs are around, or at least not advertised, for majority white but poor communities.

    For those who are now yelling “racist” all I want is for resources for the poor and/or less educated to include ALL ethnic groups and stop using only examples from one or two groups. Believe it or not. I just don’t see the “advantage” of being white protecting that group from poor health, poor education, and no retraining opportunities.

    If the Dem party were truly inclusive, then it would not have lost the rural middle of America. That is my one sided view from my personal observations of those both inside and outside my family. I just think a lot of whites revolted to the messaging for so long.

    I do believe that some in government, and Hillary, feel inclusive of all groups but most of them, like me, are afraid to say it out loud because it will be misunderstood. I have not said this to my friends either. It is just time for it to bubble out. Am I wrong? I don’t know. This is one factor, in my view. There are lots of others so I am not saying this is “the” thing that made the difference. I am not negating the rigged votes and all the other factors already discussed.

    I am thankful today that I will not be having Thanksgiving with my family, though I love them, but due to distance can go next door to my neighbors who voted the same way as I did!
    But I am still, and always will be, grieving for our country and what lies ahead for us…without a miracle.

  395. Pm, I had no idea what is happening in India with Modi. Fascism is alive and well. The world better wake up!

    About Stein and the recount, I for one don’t just want to roll over and let the fascist fckrs take over without a fight. I want to give them hell in the best way that I can for as long as I can. Perhaps the recount won’t put our girl in the WH, but if–at a minimum–a recount leads to an audit of the machines in swing states than it will be worth it. If it keeps the Repubs from acting as if they have a mandate and stifles their agenda than it will be worth it. If it wipes the smug smile off their gestapo faces it will be worth it. And if it keeps the orange trumpanzee from doing more harm to this country than he already has then it will be worth it. In fact, once this puckering a$$hole is officially in the WH, the country as we know it no longer exists. So I say, keep throwing the biggest monkey wrenches into the political system at every turn! One woman’s “hysteria” is another’s political protest.

  396. Oh, just wanted to say HAPPY THANKSGIVING to everyone here! A big thank you to Uppity, especially, for letting us vent and find common ground in our support for Hillary. We may not always agree, but I treasure all of your opinions, wisdom, support, and enduring love for this country. I feel like we’ve been on one long, never ending roller coaster ride together, so on this day of thanks raise your arms and ride into a blissful wave of gratitude for family, friends, and everything you hold dear.

  397. Gray-days, it is a campaign resource allocation problem and a catch-22 situation. You have to win the election to put your agenda into practice and you figure out where the votes are to win, right? So the people you portray if they have for decades voted for the other party, why would you put money in those places during the campaign? Hillary did talk about putting money into those places (vocational schools for one) but of course, that washed over like rain water over rocks. Those people you speak of keep voting for the Rs and Rs keep letting them down and Ds have to keep their loyalty to those who vote them in office and put more attention there and not the other places. It seems like a vicious circle.

  398. trixta, it is happening everywhere, here, in EU. That QZ article is a bit of hype and Modi is a good administrator and his party has always had to catch itself because of its ugly history as a Hindu Nationalist party. There are Hindu-Muslim flare ups and exacerbated by Pakistan’s intrusion all the time. But think about this: the al queda and other groups could not make in roads into the India’s Muslim population, second largest in the world, in an effort to convert them. It speaks to the Indian Muslims integrity and loyalty and also that the religious differences are not as severe given India’s long secular history.

  399. gray days at 12:41PM : I agree with you. Remember when BLM was on the rise and Hillary made the “mistake” of saying, “All lives matter.”?
    So many blacks and whites were outraged, but I agreed with her.

    I truly believe her intent is to help all Americans and those millions of green and infrastructure jobs she hoped to create along with training programs would have had a significant impact on many of the poor in despair, regardless of race or ethnicity. She would definitely “teach to fish,” handouts aren’t the answer, and “do as much good for as many as you could,” is after all her mantra. Her message must prevail.

  400. trixta @1:15pm:
    I agree with you in all points…
    …”Perhaps the recount won’t put our girl in the WH,”…
    and it will definitely not put Stein in the presidency at all.

    That Stein is stating: I’m not doing this to help Hillary…
    Good!, that’s the way it should be played, otherwise the Repos would get after her and our Hillary…claiming some conspiracy of whatever kind.

    At this point in time we know the election was rigged. Auditing the election, count and recount votes, investigation into the process, procedures and security is a MUST.

    At least there’s someone that is putting up the fight for an audit…

    May not be liked for the way she walks and talks…
    Yet, I’m not seeing any other miracle makers…

  401. Gray-days, welcome to Uppityville. I think you’re right on many counts. There is that vicious cycle that pm mentions, but I suspect how we’ve been conditioned to see “the poor” and “the working class” is also to blame for whom gets left out of consideration. The poor aren’t just ethnic minorities and immigrants, and the working class aren’t just white. Unfortunately, the virulent anti-immigrant rhetoric this year has only exacerbated cultural and economic divides. I believe Hillary could have done so much to improve the lives of those who have fallen through the cracks, as it were.

  402. Gray-days, you have a legitimate point, though I do not know how to deal with it. To oversimplify, Democrats relied on the Obama (Brazile) coalition. “Stronger Together” was a perfect slogan for this. But somehow we lost enough working class whites in the midwest to lose the electoral vote; and we found that some blacks did not feel as inspired to vote for someone who wasn’t Obama. And latinos were congregated in too few states. So the popular margin was there, but not the electoral vote.

    The Republicans don’t have to worry about this kind of thing. Their cohort is almost all whites, who have the same stupid economic and social views. They always come home, even for someone as awful as Trump. Democrats always risk fraying of the coalition. Hillary did great, she got 65 million votes. And she had a srrong economic message, but the media stifled it. So a bunch of white working class men and even women apparently said, ‘what’s in all this for me?” and they voted for a phony populist crook.

    Now, we already see the fraying. Some are blaming the failure to appeal to working class whites. Some Obama coalition advocates blame Hillary for not being inspiring enough. No one has any valuable answer as to how to go forward. And looking ahead, if Democrats nominate a white male in 2020, many women are going to understandably feel upset. If we nominate an AA candidate, some whites will again feel ignored. There is no easy way out of this trap. Hillary had a strong coalition, and it should have been enough; but the FBI and the media were very destructive. Of course, that is always the reality. Do we only win elections when the economy collapses? Winning the popular vote by 3 million and losing the electoral vote, proves two things. The electoral system is fatally flawed but will not change. And Democrats are going to have to somehow get together, not just vote purely economic class or identity, and try to figure out how to form a winning strategy in the future. Maybe the country is not made for this any longer. Many minorities here asserting their identity, which is understandable and even good, except that I don’t see a lot of willingness to do more than that, at least judging from the people we would see on the network shows.

  403. I’m also of Indian descent and I don’t see Modi as nearly that bad, but I did not have a chance to read the piece linked by pm. Frankly, I am grateful for many of the values that were imbibed in me because of my heritage: hard work, focus on studies, and even the religious aspect, but India truly exemplifies corruption. The CM of my state of origin literally spent millions of rupees building statues of elephants! It’s impossible to get anything done there. I can see why people wanted change.

    I don’t think “All Lives Matter,” as a standpoint is bad, but I think people were mad that a phenomenon experienced largely by AAs was being diluted. I think police brutality is a common problem, but I think that + racism does result in disproportional killings of black people.

    OTOH, I also agree that more needs to be done for poor people in general, but that begs the question: why do so many vote against their best interests? I saw some article about how this poor woman working at a diner voter for Trump in Pennsylvania but hopes he won’t gut Obamacare because her daughter gets insurance for 50$ a month. Like? The coal, low end manufacturing stuff is simply not going to come back. Retraining, improved education and a transition to a services and RD economy is essential for any nation. You can’t just close the borders and end trade treaties, and now that the rest of the world is playing ball too, a lot of companies are going to move over there.

    This is why climate change denial and all that rubbish is so stupid. If America was allowed to innovate and start manufacturing and developing green technologies, it would create jobs for people. Retraining is absolutely needed, but no one wants to spend for it – they’re all obsessed with “balancing the budget.” Of course, float the idea of cutting military spending and the crowd goes nuts. And also, you have those religious fanatics who care far more about what women do with their bodies, and whether gays are getting married than the wellbeing of others.

    I really think the confrontational and partisan nature of the US political system, in conjunction with a civically illiterate electorate, will impede progress. It’s just so bad.

  404. bellecat, Stein’s motives behind the recount will reveal themselves soon enough. She’s not to be trusted, to be sure. If, however, a recount helps tamp down some of the zealotry of the far right than it will have accomplished something. Every little bit counts.

  405. Neurotransmitter (at 3:37 pm), the reason the poor and the uninformed religious right vote against their interest is simple. At least it explains the mid-south where I am from. They are voting for one issue. Period. They will not vote for anyone who supports choice re abortion. They truly believe that the Dems support abortion at any age of fetus. They do not want it as an option regardless.
    The fact that they are not helping themselves and, in fact, are voting for Republicans who are only using them, never is considered. Even if they knew their lives would be improved by a Democrat, they would still vote anti-choice.

    They believe that their moral and religious imperative is to save all human life, regardless of the cost to them personally. And, as William said (I think it was him) it is difficult to know how to combat the ‘set in stone’ (my term) beliefs of the far right. But, if we are to survive as a free nation, we somehow have to find a way.

  406. They believe that their moral and religious imperative is to save all human life, regardless of the cost to them personally.

    …..except if they think the person deserves it. Like you’ll never see one of them protest someone about to be executed. Thou shalt not kill is selective, usually related to somebody else’s life being ruined.

    You’d see how quick they figured out how to ‘get rid’ of a pregnancy if one of their daughters is raped. Of course, if they’re raped by uncle Cletus, it’s called “Family”.

    Same deal with all those fake Christians on Capitol Hill. When their daughters and mistresses get pregnant, they make a quiet visit to one of Bill Frist’s private family clinics for a “D and C”.

  407. Eurogirl. I understand your frustration Ruth the state if Ohio. As a resident of Cincinnati and Hillary Clinton volunteer, I can tell you that the campaign had a very good GOTV effort and she won in Hamilton county by about 10 points. Hamilton county tends to be republican and republicans won most of the county races. We have paper ballots with optical readers so recounts would be easy. I don’t knew about the rest of the state. I was very surprised by the results in Ohio.

  408. I always thought that dubious word “ReTraining” was a train wreck in reality when planned by government. I can assure you that a guy who built printed wire assemblies isn’t going to happily attend training to be a hospital orderly. You can’t yank people 180 degrees and expect it to work out. It’s just stupid. Also what good does it do to train anybody at anything if neither they nor you can find them a job? And if you do it’s, Ok here’s a new job for you at half the income. Good luck with that. Go get em!

    Conversely you can’t pretend that what is gone will come back (See Donald J Trump). It won’t. I remember when drafting at GE became obsolete. Nobody was going to bring it back. We had software that did their job in a snap. To promise those guys this was coming back would have been a grave miscarriage of justice. Some of them saw it coming and adapted by volunteering to learn how to use the software systems. Others simply got bitter and landed I Don’t know Where. The truth is, flexible and versatile employees are continuing employees. And that’s a simple fact. Because you aren’t going to bring back the dead. I saw too many stubborn people get laid off when there were other options. I say, expect plenty of disappointment among those people who imagine we are going to turn back clocks for them, such as firing up coal again or start sending canaries down mines. If you don’t move with the world, the world will move on without you.

    Another silly thing is the tariff idea. You add a 40 percent tariff on imports and 1) people won’t be able to afford to buy the products and 2)those same countries will levy a tariff on our exports too. Tit for Tat, stupid. Does anyone actually think that companies are going to return here and pay the salaries they once paid? In order to get them back, they want us to “compete,” which means work for peanuts. That should thrill everybody who’s waiting for the return of manufacturing. You too can be seen making ipads in a garage for a couple of bucks an hour. So, sure, we can bring jobs back. Just don’t expect to be paid much. How many of them remember Donald saying that early in his campaign? We have to “lower wages”. That’s what he said.

    Basically, the only thing that can instantly revive an economy is…….you guessed it….war. Look for it in your theater soon. So we can have a “post war boom”.

  409. Basically, the only thing that can instantly revive an economy is…….you guessed it….war.

    Except that’s not a guarantee. See both Bush wars, where most contracts went to private companies, most of whom outsourced. We enjoyed none of that sweet economy a war is supposed to bring.

  410. I don’t mean that kind of war. I meant WWII. Where war is declared on an entire country. Declared.

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