Full Statement From Hillary Clinton Campaign

Hillary for America general counsel Marc Elias on listening and responding to calls for an audit and recount:

“Over the last few days, officials in the Clinton campaign have received hundreds of messages, emails, and calls urging us to do something, anything, to investigate claims that the election results were hacked and altered in a way to disadvantage Secretary Clinton. The concerns have arisen, in particular, with respect to Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania — three states that together proved decisive in this presidential election and where the combined margin of victory for Donald Trump was merely 107,000 votes.

It should go without saying that we take these concerns extremely seriously. We certainly understand the heartbreak felt by so many who worked so hard to elect Hillary Clinton, and it is a fundamental principle of our democracy to ensure that every vote is properly counted.

Moreover, this election cycle was unique in the degree of foreign interference witnessed throughout the campaign: the U.S. government concluded that Russian state actors were behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee and the personal email accounts of Hillary for America campaign officials, and just yesterday, the Washington Post reported that the Russian government was behind much of the “fake news” propaganda that circulated online in the closing weeks of the election.

For all these reasons, we have quietly taken a number of steps in the last two weeks to rule in or out any possibility of outside interference in the vote tally in these critical battleground states.
First, since the day after the election we have had lawyers and data scientists and analysts combing over the results to spot anomalies that would suggest a hacked result. These have included analysts both from within the campaign and outside, with backgrounds in politics, technology and academia.

Second, we have had numerous meetings and calls with various outside experts to hear their concerns and to discuss and review their data and findings. As a part of this, we have also shared out data and findings with them. Most of those discussions have remained private, while at least one has unfortunately been the subject of leaks.

Third, we have attempted to systematically catalogue and investigate every theory that has been presented to us within our ability to do so.

Fourth, we have examined the laws and practices as they pertain to recounts, contests and audits.

Fifth, and most importantly, we have monitored and staffed the post-election canvasses — where voting machine tapes are compared to poll-books, provisional ballots are resolved, and all of the math is double checked from election night. During that process, we have seen Secretary Clinton’s vote total grow, so that, today, her national popular vote lead now exceeds more than 2 million votes.

In the coming days, we will continue to perform our due diligence and actively follow all further activities that are to occur prior to the certification of any election results. For instance, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania conduct post-election audits using a sampling of precincts. Michigan and many other states still do not. This is unfortunate; it is our strong belief that, in addition to an election canvass, every state should do this basic audit to ensure accuracy and public confidence in the election.

Beyond the post-election audit, Green Party candidate Jill Stein announced Friday that she will exercise her right as a candidate to pursue a recount in the state of Wisconsin. She has indicated plans to also seek recounts in Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Because we had not uncovered any actionable evidence of hacking or outside attempts to alter the voting technology, we had not planned to exercise this option ourselves, but now that a recount has been initiated in Wisconsin, we intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides. If Jill Stein follows through as she has promised and pursues recounts in Pennsylvania and Michigan, we will take the same approach in those states as well. We do so fully aware that the number of votes separating Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in the closest of these states — Michigan — well exceeds the largest margin ever overcome in a recount. But regardless of the potential to change the outcome in any of the states, we feel it is important, on principle, to ensure our campaign is legally represented in any court proceedings and represented on the ground in order to monitor the recount process itself.

The campaign is grateful to all those who have expended time and effort to investigate various claims of abnormalities and irregularities. While that effort has not, in our view, resulted in evidence of manipulation of results, now that a recount is underway, we believe we have an obligation to the more than 64 million Americans who cast ballots for Hillary Clinton to participate in ongoing proceedings to ensure that an accurate vote count will be reported.”


437 Responses

  1. So much does go on behind the scenes that we do not know about. Hillary Clinton is no dummy…and she’s nobody’s fool. She’s joining Stein’s recount not because she trusts Jill Stein, but because she doesn’t trust her!
    I also think she learned from 2008 when she conceded to Obama and worked so hard to elect him. She knew she disappointed her millions of supporters. But she did what she had to do, and what she thought was right for the country, and for the party.
    It’s obvious that her team has been very diligent and responsible in their post election work. It also shows once again, what a superior president she would be compared to the Orange Baffoon. Just look at his crazy selection process of choosing a cabinet! We can all be proud of the campaign that she has run, pre and post November 8th.

  2. Good! I’m glad.

  3. Thanks for posting, imust!

  4. Bravo imust. Thank you for your top post and comment.

    I am also very happy to know that Hillary and her team are not just rolling over and have been working behind the scenes.

    I tweeted Hillary a week ago to please have her team recount and investigate the thousands if not millions of votes that were never counted.

    I am pleased to see she didn’t need my little tweet.

    Go Hillary ❤

  5. I’m glad you tweeted her campaign Shadow. Although it seems they would have been working on validating election results without any tweets or emails, they certainly seem to be fully aware of the probably thousands of tweets of support that they received. Isn’t good to know that Hillary herself knows that we have her back and are fighting for her, as she has always done for us.

  6. A very good letter. Most unfortunately, the real illegality is not subject to recount; that is the criminal suppression of the vote by Republiicans. In Wisconsin, 300,000 otherwise eligible voters were not allowed to vote because of the voter ID laws which were purposely put in with the specific goal of keeping people, mostly African Americans, from voting. Without this criminal activity, Hillary would certainly have won WI, MI, and PA, and thus the presidency. This suppression was going on for months; and people like Ari Berman were talking about it; but nothing was done. And maybe if the TV media had talked about it, instead of emails, it might have gotten more attention. Multiple lawsuits should have been filed; and people should have made more efforts to somehow help, or even pay for the IDs for voters.

    It is doubtful that just a recount will change that many votes, unless there was hacking There have been some reports of shadow votes in WI. and that is significant. If there were only some way to have gotten all those suppressed voters to have cast provisional ballots, adn then to have sued to have them counted. At this point, the tiniest of hopes is that somehow we can get enough votes to win Wi and MI, and that. plus Hillary’s 2.5 million vote margin, might somehow sway eleven or more electors to change their votes. I seriously doubt they would, because they would literallly be risking their lives. But it is a small glimmer, at least.

  7. imusthaveHillary, on November 27, 2016 at 1:51 AM


  8. William, very true. This is the first Presidential Election since the voting Rights Act was eviscerated, and we are seeing the results. Also the Crosscheck program has suppressed voting, especially among Latinxs and AAs. Unfortunately voter suppression can be hard to prove in definitive numbers.

  9. Thank you, Imust, for posting the Clinton campaign statement.

  10. I posted this in the last thread after this new post is up since a lot of you were focusing on birth certificates and that is not the only problem immigrants face regarding voting:

    Let me tell you all a disturbing story about what I went through regarding identification. Many years back Florida required that you bring in with you proof of immigration status in order to renew your drivers license. About 1 1/2 years before my license would expire I looked for my passport. I had not traveled overseas within the past two years and when I located it, it was expired. So I looked for my naturalization papers. Couldn’t find them. I called INS to see if I could get a copy. They could find nothing. I then spent the next year going through US government hell. It got so bad that my husband said don’t worry I will visit you in Cuba when you get deported. Long story short an immigration attorney friend said to send in the expired passport anyway and renew it. Well even though it was close to a year expired it was renewed and I was able to get my drivers license renewed.

    I found out later close to two years after starting my journey of looking for my naturalization certificate that my name was indexed incorrectly when I first arrived in the US. That is why it was nearly impossible to locate. Also when I married and changed my last name I was obligated to pay for a new certificate in my married name. I did that so I am completely legal now.

    So sometimes the birth certificate is not so difficult to get. But if you lose your naturalization certificate you are screwed.

    As for Castro dying he is irrelevant now. He was a murdering brutal dictator. But his brother is no better. Nothing will change for Cuba or the Cuban people.

    Sadly Obama is a lame duck president. There is nothing he can do about anything. The left will continue to commit suicide by listening to Bernie. I am beyond caring at this point. The white people that put Trump in power and voted for Bernie are racist sexist xenophobic bigots. They are beyond redemption. I’m too busy enduring the minority apocalypse that the Trump era has dumped on my doorstep.

  11. Unfortunately at this time I do not believe that any recount will be able to provide Hillary the margins she needs to become president. Trump was able to unify the white vote by blaming all of the wwc problems on immigrants Hispanics and muslims. Shameful but that is what happened. Proof that even though Obama was elected twice old belief systems are still intact in much of white america.

  12. Well, the good news FL Voter is that only 100K votes in three states are what made Trump president. Maybe people won’t take voting for granted next time. Even if not enough votes are found in those states to flip them the fact that election fraud or any other host of issues could be found it would undermine Trump’s already thin reed of legitimacy with the voters. Personally I think WI could flip as they’ve already found huge problems. It won’t be enough to change the results but again it will undercut Trump some more. We’re all going to have to fight him on everything.

  13. Trump is going berserk on Twitter over the recount!

  14. Imust, thank you for posting this. William, I agree that the Republicans made sure that minorities were not able to vote due to voter suppression.

  15. Sophie, for the next four years “Trump is going berserk on Twitter” will be the most frequently uttered words.

  16. If crosscheck is found to be eliminating legitimate voters then the GOP is going to have a huge problem on their hands.

  17. The fact that Trump is going berserk on Twitter over the recount alone, makes it worthwhile.

  18. I think a flip to Hillary Clinton will never be accepted as legitimate by Trump voters and the GOP. We know that voter suppression happened. frankly all those Trump voters and the GOP rejoiced in it. What happened to me in Florida was shameful regarding proof of immigration status to renew my drivers license. I am a US Citizen. I didn’t see the Florida GOP government helping me out. They were probably counting on me giving up.

  19. Trump apparently (I will never read his tweets) angrily compiaining about the recount would be instructive, if anyone out there still needed it. Recounts are legal under our heretofore constitutional system. Now maybe Trump and his band will make sure that there are no elections, no recounts, no free press, no right to dissent. Maybe some of the Bernie folks could have thought of that before; maybe some of the people who didn’t feel like voting, should have; maybe the smug media which reveled in peeping into hacked emails, might have. At this point, recounts are legal and even mandated in certain situations. So we have a president-elected screaming about people exercising constiutional rights. I won’t watch the cable news, but I’m assuming that the usual suspects are criticizing Hillary and her team for doing so, and looking forward to a fantastic inauguration party with the liquor flowing.

  20. The tweet storm over the recount is probably to distract media from NYT story (way too late!) on the tsunami of conflicts of interests Trump has over international business interests.

  21. Sometimes, one casually accepts something because “it is the way it is,” without really delving into its legitimacy. If one steps back a bit, and just considers the idea of a presidential candidate getting 2.5 million more votes than her opponent, and then having him installed as president, it is both absurd and shocking. It is a destructive affront to democracy.

    Yes, we have some archaic system with an electoral college, like some kind of arcane board game. But obviously governance is not anything like winning a board game. And if we are somehow compelled to follow the system, then the founders put in the electoral college to have them pick the president, not the voters. They wanted to protect against a demagogue capturing the popular will; they wanted the best and brightest (as they thought of them) to make the choice. If we have this system where small state voters have more voting power than large state voters, and then have the electoral college simply there to repeat it, it is redundant. And the constitution was not set up to be redundant; there is a specific role for the electoral college. And in times of great peril, they must use it.

    But just the concept of one person getting 2.5 million less votes, and maybe 1.5% less in national proportion, and being the supposed president of the entire country, is both absurd and ruinous. We have never had such a situation. We have had a couple of people elected with less popular votes, but that was a small difference in votes. This is the country overwhelmingly voting for Hillary…and getting Trump? It is both absolutely undemocratic ,and disastrous in nature. A minority president has no moral right to govern. Apart from everything else, such a result completely invalidates this country as a democracy.

  22. William, last week there were some constitutional experts arguing that the EC is not obligated to vote for Trump but to follow the will of the people–that is, vote for Hillary. As you suggest, the EC was not intended to merely ratify the votes of the states. Considering that Trump is refusing to resolve his conflicts problem, he is actually in violation of the emoluments clause and, therefore, the constitution itself.

    It iccurred to me this am that before he leaves office, President Obama should award Hillary the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

  23. The GOP called WJC a minority president, even though he beat GHWB handily. But because of Ross Perot in the race taking votes. They combined RP and GHWB and said WJC was not majority. Which really makes no sense. It was a 3 way race, he beat the other two, he won. But they’re soooo willing to accept DT as legitimate even though HRC rec’d over 2 million more votes.

  24. Trump’s tweets are like cow farts. Only the worthless media think they are wonderful and sniff them up into worthless tv drama for days.

    The rest of us put on our gas masks and watch he and his tribe go nuts, again and again and again…

    Everything that doesn’t glorify him, becomes his own victim parade.

  25. Brassy

    It occurred to me this am that before he leaves office, President Obama should award Hillary the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

    When I heard that Ellen got this medal, I was thinking…where the Hell is Hillary’s medal for all she has bled for this country?

    Actually Hillary deserves more than a medal from Obama…a Hell of a lot more.

  26. What does it take to count the votes? I would like to help out, I would even take some vacation days off of work to do it.

    Any know the qualifications to help out counting?

  27. Trump Tower turns into ‘Dump Tower’ on Google Maps

    (CNN)For a few hours, Trump Tower in New York City turned into “Dump Tower” on Google Maps.

    By early Sunday morning, it appeared “Dump Tower” was gone and restored to its proper name on the map service.
    CNN reached out to Google for comment.
    Trump Tower serves as the President-elect’s home in Manhattan. Its central location on Fifth Avenue has posed security challenges for the Secret Service and local law enforcement.
    CNN affiliate WPIX had reported that a second location, the Trump International Hotel & Tower in Columbus Circle had also been renamed Dump International Hotel & Tower earlier Saturday. By Sunday morning, that reference had also been removed.


  28. I think this is a ray of hope. What do you think?

    Bill Clinton For First Gentleman and ALL for ONE shared a link.

    Christiane Amanpour Drops Truth Bomb On Trump Era Press: ‘I Believe In Being Truthful, Not Neutral’
    This week CNN’s chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, received…

  29. Thank you imust, for the post of a must needed communication from our Hillary.

    Let´s keep the fight on…and hope up…

  30. Apparently according to CNN only 40% of the country sees Trump as a legitimate president. So at least there’s great opposition to him and the GOP not that it’s going to change what they do though. These people are zealots on a mission from God.

  31. Three Wisconsin Counties Just Admitted They Padded Trump’s Win With Fake Votes –

  32. Oh, that should be 40% see Trump as NOT LEGITIMATE.

  33. @Virgina

    Absolutely…check this too.

    Opinion at the WaPo:

    “The Constitution lets the electoral college choose the winner. They should choose Clinton.”


  34. *cross post from RD

    Trump has around 75 pending lawsuits still open out of around 4,000.
    “Because of the Supreme Court case related to Bill Clinton, there’s no automatic shield for the President from civil action.” – Samuel Issacharoff, New York University Law Professor. Wasn’t Trump Bill bashing not so long ago? The irony of it all…


  35. @ Newsweek

    Presidential Recount: How it Works and Clinton’s Chances of Success
    By Nina Burleigh On 11/27/16 at 1:05 PM


  36. I’m all for the recount but as pointed out doesn’t that still leave us short (Hillary) without PA? The popular vote clearly shows more people voted for her but the rust belt states bought the Trump narrative hook, line and sinker.

  37. Jb

    No one really knows what will happen, but many reports already said before the recount story this weekend, that 5 EC voters will change their votes from Trump to Clinton.

    If nothing else, having the recount will at least attempt to find out what happened in some purple states on Nov 8th.

    When ever I drive home and hear a Stones song on the radio, I always think of you.

  38. Thanks Virginia and imust for the Amanpour speech. It was needed long ago, during the election.

  39. LOL! “The Onion” says it all.


    “Precious Little Voter Needs To Feel Inspired By Candidate”


  40. Click to read the entire thread. This guy is spot-on about HRC.

  41. “It wasn’t just ‘fake news’ presenting a fake Hillary Clinton: She was held to impossible standards”

    “Despite Hillary Clinton’s long and demonstrable commitment to public service and liberal reform, many voters in the 2016 presidential election were persuaded that she was corrupt, mercenary and even murderous. A sinister Hillary Clinton dominated conservative media, but also appeared in mainstream journalism.

    The bias against Hillary Clinton was not simply a story the media reported — it was the unexamined narrative the press repeated over and over. Researchers at Harvard University have documented the disproportionately negative media coverage during the earliest phases of the presidential campaign and how it contributed to a false view of Clinton. Former New York Times editor Jill Abramson extensively reviewed charges that Clinton was a liar and dismissed them, concluding that she is “fundamentally honest and trustworthy.” These reports and others like them struggled to find traction as stories claimed the race was between two unlikable candidates — a distorted notion that became known as the myth of false equivalence.”



  42. Voting, those tweets from Jeremy remind me of Harry Truman who said, “I’d rather be right than be president.”

  43. Shadowfax, re your question somewhere above, I heard Jill Stein (FWIW) say on TV that volunteers are needed for the recount, as observers. Training will be provided, she said. I guess you would call an election board in Wisconsin to ask about when/where vols are needed. Or Jill Stein?!!

  44. The nerve of that danged Turnipp tweeting that he won the popular vote. “If you take out the millions of illegal votes!” Unbelievable that even he has the gall to say this lie, as the official pres elect of the USA. I still don’t know how we came to this.

  45. Gray-days:
    Is he official pres elect?
    Not just yet…I say…

  46. Trump tweeting about all the illegal votes means we need to recount and audit every state. Right?

  47. Wow,feeling guilty much,DJT? The Tweets,good lord;what’s he going to do if some world leader makes a comment about his hair? This is just so mean girl high school.
    Do any of us feel like this kind of behavior is sustainable in a President for four years? This doesn’t even begin to touch the whole conflict of interest thing. Hold on to your hats and prepare for a Pence Presidency.

    Oh and thanks for the new thread Imust,much appreciated. At least now we know that things were being done behind the scenes to question the results. Only those guilty of fraud should ever fear a recount. Trump’s just going to have to get over himself. ( Not holding my breath)
    So glad Hillary revealed that she continued/s to fight for us and for justice. Wouldn’t it be great if she decided to pursue the whole voter suppression issue? Of course it won’t matter what issue she devotes herself to,she’ll be fighting the Koch brothers and their minions.

  48. Not my prez-elect.
    Never my President.

  49. Ga6thDem:
    recount and audit every state sound good to me…but “we the people” will be watching every move the Rep-rats may make…

  50. The scary thing is the normalization of complete lies being spewed forth by Trump and his agents. They did it during the campaign, in his speeches, and in the talking heads they stuck on the air. Hillary is very ill; she is going to admit 600,000 Syrians; etc., etc. They originate from Russian agents, or from conspiracy sites; and Trump then repeats them, and no one in the media says a word, thus giving them credence. This, it should not need to be said, is how totalitarian states do it; and once the media is completely taken over by their forces, there is no way for the public to have any real idea as to the truth.

    This is why Trump did not do press conferences for months, and why he may never do them. Someone would ask him where he got this 3 million illegal votes idea from. His followers believe it, and tweet it regularly. It also gives him the opportunity to validate his massive deportation of Hispanics, and continued major suppression of the vote. The danger of the pervasiveness and tacit acceptane of “big lies,” is that they are then used to promote evil policies said to be necessary to combat the false facts purveyed. If for no other reason (there are a thousand other ones as well), that is why the mainstream media’s refusal to rebut Trump;s daily catalogue of lies, is so terribly dangerous and irresponsible.

  51. Bellecat, he will never be my president. But, I am now unable to believe that the EC will do nothing but rubber stamp him as pres-elect. They do not have the courage it takes to save their country. Their votes are public and certified locally so if they don’t vote how their state says they should, they would be disqualified and another elector selected. That is what I read about Colorado and figure other states are similar. would be nice to be wrong.

  52. above: do ‘anything’ but instead of ‘nothing but’

  53. There are so so many reasons to deny the donald the Oval Office.
    His business connections and conflict of interest, but most compelling is that the popular vote is so overwhelmingly for the Hill.
    Already Wis has reduced trumpp’s vote by 5k votes.
    Trump conned the rust belt.
    Add the Putin hacking-Hillary hate and Comey deliverings the righteous rubes in PA and Wi and MI.
    Ugh…I was born there. I am ashamed for our country.
    ……………. may trumpp fail miserably.

  54. William, your post is chilling and I believe, true.
    Al Gore wrote a book called The Assault on Reason.
    This is sure an assault on reason.

  55. The GOP loves them some Crosscheck programs. And:

  56. Check this out…


    Recount in PA…great news indeed…

  57. bellecat

    Does Stein have all the money to recount PA now too? Which states are already paid for??

  58. Ahh rats, name change…

  59. The blog is sure dead today…is everyone too depressed?

  60. Stein moves for Pennsylvania recount

    By Daniel Strauss

    11/28/16 01:02 PM EST


  61. Wisconsin election officials pledged Monday they would oversee a fast and fair recount of the presidential vote there, as they race to beat a federal deadline for getting it done, but they declined a request to conduct the new tally by hand.


    starting the actual recount near the end of the week. State officials must have their new tally completed by December 13, according to federal law.


    In Wisconsin, the election panel shot down a request from Stein that the ballots be counted by hand, although the Green Party leader intends to go to court to override that decision.
    “If nothing else, this is going to give us a very good audit, it’s going to re-assure Wisconsin voters that we have a fair system, that we’re not counting illegal votes,” said Elections Commission chairman Mark Thomsen.
    He strongly defended the vote count.
    “To say we didn’t count them correctly the first time… that somehow illegal votes were counted… is really inappropriate,” Thomsen said. “I don’t think we’ll find in this that our fellow citizens counted these votes (in)accurately — going to reassure — not counting illegal votes … We’re not counting dead people’s votes.”

    Wisconsin elections administrator Mike Haas said that if the recount battle moves to the courts, after the commission announces the new tally, it will be out of the commission’s hands.


    —-He sounds like a Trump supporter to me. He should keep his opinion out of it.

  62. Shadow, I don’t know where everyone is. Twitter maybe?

  63. I wonder that too…

  64. Bellecats link above…this is horrible news.

    Michigan certifies Trump as winner

    Donald Trump has officially won Michigan, the final state to be awarded and the capstone of Trump’s unlikely run of narrow victories in the Midwestern states that will deliver the first-time political candidate to the White House.

    Michigan’s Board of Canvassers certified the results on Monday afternoon in Lansing. Trump won 2,279,543 votes (47.6 percent), according to the certified results — 10,704 more than Hillary Clinton’s 2,268,839 (47.4 percent).

  65. Well, Shadow Michigan is going to be recounted. They’ve already agreed I believe. I guess they had to certify before they started counting again. Whatever. I don’t think any of this is going to change the outcome but I do hope they find out a lot of stuff.

  66. Shadow:
    I’m not sure about the speedy count and not paper ballots…
    Any word on Michigan?
    I placed a request to the Stein team to seek count and audit in Arizona…
    It appears that deadlines are becoming an issue…

  67. They certified, but just for 10,704…it can be requested for a recount and audit…
    Maybe they have to certified in order to request a recount and audit…my understanding is it can Not be filed while they are still counting and is not been certified.
    Now, legally speaking filing the petion to a final outcome can take place.

  68. I want us to be positive on this fight…it helps the flow of energy around…

  69. So if Putin’s goal was to undermine our confidence in our election processes,mission accomplished.If Stein is a big supporter of Putin she has the benefit of furthering his goal by challenging the results,looking like a hero to the left/disaffected Dems and building up the Green’s street cred and e-mail lists.

    For Hillary,she gets to poke the bears ( both Russia and Trump) and highlights,repeatedly, that she won the popular vote by a massive margin AND that Trump hasn’t a mandate,by any stretch of the imagination.( 44% approval rating..that is LOW)

    More importantly,continued coverage also puts into the mainstream media the facts about bad/vulnerable voting machines that need to be replaced w/machines that have a back up paper trail. ( Especially in PA)Otherwise we go through all this again to infinity and beyond.

    End results may be the same but at least we get to watch Trump foam at the mouth and make wild twitter claims. Now that’s a nice little stocking stuffer..worth every penny spent.

    Voter suppression,that’s a fight for another day..but soon.MUST be challenged before 2018 elections.

  70. If they recount Michigan, they might find the same thing they found in Wisconsin, which is padding of Trump’s vote totals. It wouldn’t take that many to reverse this 10,000 or so. I have not heard of a recount in MI yet. That is the state most likely to flip, not PA or WI. But I thought certification was only done after the recount or deadline had passed. So this sounds as if there is no recount? Else, why certify?

    I’m still not sure if Stein is actually wanting to get a fair count, or that she wants to help validate a Trump victory. And they should indeed count paper ballots in WI and MI. Very unfortunately, PA doesn’t do paper ballots.

    There was an elector in TX today who said he could nto vote for Trump. But he resigned, so his replacement will cast the electoral vote for Trump. If you want to stand up for principle, and in his case, religion, tnen stand up for it, don’t just scurry out and let the thing happen that you don’t want to happen.

  71. Speaking of Twitter, that creep on Delta has been banned from the airline for life:

    . @Delta will not allow the infamous Trump flyer to ever board a Delta flight again. Special thanks to @JoyAnnReid pic.twitter.com/EmV9xnt0hz— Yashar (@yashar) November 28, 2016


  72. Scott Walker replaced the well respected members of the Election Commission with his partisan hacks. Don’t expect much from there.

    The elector from Texas who resigned sounded like he was more concerned with the Bible than the Constitution. I don’t still have a link. It was at Talking Points Memo. He sounded like a nut to me. But then, we have no shortage of nuts in this election, starting with Trump himself.

  73. Thanks shadowfax. I am still so depressed about things that it is hard to even post. 8 friggin years we waited and the events that caused this injustice may never be known. I give up on politics and truthfully just try to find solace in my friends and family.

  74. Ga6thDem

    Thanks, glad they will recount.

  75. Brassy Rebel, that is the biggest problem of all. It’s like a sci-fi scare film with alien plant forms seeding even more of them. Once a Republican gets hold of any position, he immediately appoints his cronies and rorrupt hacks to subsidiary positions, thus polluting the entire system. Swamp, indeed.

    Of course, I must admit that this should have been obvious long before now. When Wisconsinites elected Walker and then beat back the recall, I wondered what had happened to this once progressive state. Michigan has an awful Republican governor. There are pbviously a bunch of people in those states who do indeed want a rollback of rights, and disenfranchisement. Republicans were sinister and dogged enough to realize that if they controlled the state legislatures, they coud control the Congress through gerrymandering, and then the presidency through voter suppression.

  76. jb

    I certainly don’t blame you. Hillary is the only person I wanted as my President before I croak, or am too old to remember my own name.

    I wonder how many people will die earlier because they were subjected to Dumbtruck’s p-residency?

    He is going to take us back to an overpopulated 1950…when rich white men made the rules and their women walked behind them, preggers and lacking of self worth. Before JFK and MLK. Before women fought for rights over their own bodies and fought for positions in government, and high level jobs.

  77. Clinton team starts firing back at Trump

    Her operation has been careful to frame its participation in the recount as simply reflecting a desire to be helpful and a response to voters’ concerns.


  78. Shadow, probably some of the regulars here worked today.
    I know I did my usual volunteer work (not political) and went to the dentist!
    I am not much into twitter but am looking at a few. Joy Reid, etc.
    I am not good at math but I heard on the radio that the MI difference was .1% or maybe .01% of the vote, less for Hillary. If so, that qualifies for a recount for sure.
    I see Stein is now seeking money for a PA recount. I think she will keep a big portion of the money but can’t complain if it gets a valid, note valid/accurate, recount.

  79. Well, I’m glad Delta is banning that asshole, one piece of good news anyway. As far as the recounts go, I would just as life have them as not, some good might come of it, crooked electioneers that padded totals for the rethugs could hopefully get busted. However, I doubt if it will give Hillary the presidency, although I have no doubt there was a lot of vote rigging going on in the swing states, especially PA, who uses all electronic voting machines, the crooks.

    Although I have more anger directed at the media and the rethugs, I am still very pissed off at Jill Fucking Stein. She knew damn well that Nader’s assholery put W in office. People were warning her not be a Nader and to tell her “fans” in the swing states to vote for Hillary, but no, her stupid pride wouldn’t let her. And now she wants a recount, like that will erase the years of damage that millions of women and minorities will suffer during the coming rethug fascist reign. No Jill, this is too little too late. I doubt if a simple recount will change much of anything, a full on audit and investigation would be needed and there is no time left for that, these requests should have been filed weeks ago, and by the democrats/Hillary. But Jill…Jill should have told her disgruntled voters before voting day to vote for Hillary in the swings. She should have explained to them that she doesn’t want to go down in history as Nader2, and that Hillary would likely address a lot of their concerns. But no, the wonderful future we all prayed for is gone, and all we have left are these crappy last minute recounts. Thanks Jill.

    I’m also pissed as hell at Obama for a number of things. One, he should appoint Garland during the recess, and two, he shouldn’t have pressured Hillary to concede before she was ready. I think all he cares about now is his own stature and for some weird reason that I can’t fathom, he’d rather go out as being gracious and accommodating than being tough and a fighter. I don’t get it at all.

    We need to find a new democratic leader to rally around for 2020. Maybe Hillary will point the way. I hope their are lawyers who will fight for voting rights in the swing states. I think its likely dump won’t last 4 years and we’ll end up with dence, who should be beatable. If not, its New Zealand for the socal fam.

    btw, I will be around less until xmas. Am working a lot of hours until then, but I’ll be back unless I drop dead!

  80. just as lief, not life! Ugh, autocorrect!

  81. So here’s my generic response to Trump Gloaters:

    “Congratulations on electing your Oligarch. Hope you enjoy your new retirement with privatized Medicare with fewer benefits, the slash in social security and reduced pensions dependent on the stock market.

    As for your kids and college? Sorry,no longer financially feasible. Renegotiating your current college debt..forget about it.

    But,hey,maybe Trump will let you come spend thousands at one of his hotels or golf courses. That should look really cool on your Facebook page.”

    Feel free to quote me or elaborate.

    “Is this not why we pay for poorhouses?”- E. Scrooge

  82. I don’t like Stein, not an ounce but I do like that she has at least rounded up some money to get at least a couple if not more states recounted.

    It will put my mind a little at rest either way.

    Something major went wrong with this election and if this is the only window into some voting in purple states that we have, I am a glad to see it pushed by anyone, even if it’s Stein.

  83. Annie, I thought, “what a good post, but she didn’t quite know the ancient phrase, ‘just as lief,” but then I read the next post, and you did. I always appreciate high literacy! 🙂

    I will provide a little bit of future hope, which I read in an article by Greg Sargent in the wapo. Sophie tried to teach me how to link, but such things are apparently too complex for me, as i am conceptual and not too spatial. Anyway, the idea is that there are about 39 governorships open in 2018, and most are open, because all those governors who swept in during the tea party shellacking of Obama’s party, are termed out. If Democrats do not give up, and really organize t the grass roots, and somehow try to get voter IDs for those that are going to be suppressed, we might make serious gains on the state level. Tlhis is more important than usual, because the census in 2020 means that the party in control of a statehouse gets to redraw the districts. Someone estimated that it could mean 3-4 congressional seats in some states. That means that we could retake the House in 2020, and maybe even the Senate, if we hold our own in 2018. It’s a difficult task, and it’s far away, but it;s doable. If we don’t have any better terrain after 2020, then it might be time to go to Iceland (they want American emigres) or Mars (lots of potential room there).

    As to Obama, him saying that the election “reflects the will of the people,” is both unhelpful and very wrong. The will of the people was that Hillary should be president, 2.5 million more votes worth. He seems to have the nature to avoid controntation at all cost, which can be a very admirable quality, but not in politics, not with the Republicans being relentless in pursuit of complete power through any means. And Garland should have been appointed. I continue to believe that the Supreme Court as presently constituted would not say that “advise and consent” can be stretched to mean that the Senate can refuse to hold a hearing on a nominee for 300 days, as that would mean that a future Senate could refuse to ever hold a hearing on a nominee. I doubt that they would want to stand for that principle. But Obama won’t test it. Hillary and Bill would have.

  84. It had to be Stein…and some day it will be clear why…
    the three states that she committed: WI, MI and PA will be audited and recounted…is been confirmed…and the money will be there…

    Of the three, PA is the most challenging because there are not paper ballots…

    The possibility of changing these 3 swing states in Hillary’s favor is quite significant.

    EC votes on those threes states combined are 46.

    Hillary has 232, plus 46 = 278

    Tramp has 306, minus 46= 260

    That the audit and recount action is worth ALL the effort…you bet you…

    If Stein pays her campaign debt and gets nation wide free shelter for stray puppies and kitties and whatever I hear she wants the money for, let it be.

    The good thing is that Stein rose to the occasion and I commend her for doing so. At this point in time there is more at stake in our country with a future in the hands of white nationalist/supremacists.

    I’m hoping to hear that AZ and maybe FL will get also the audit and recount. I’ve been pushing for it.

  85. William good post on Obama always playing it safe…

  86. Obama playing it safe is one of the reasons we’re in the mess we’re in along with him being determined to run for president before he was really ready. Frankly I think things would have turned out quite differently had Hillary been the nominee in 2008 and people had 8 years to adjust to seeing Obama as VP. He then could have been the “exciting” new choice for 2016. Alas it did not work out that way and here we are. The country was not really mature enough for a black president and frankly I’m still kind of shocked that he managed to get reelected in 2012. Maybe we would be better off if he hadn’t been reelected and we would already be looking at the failure of conservative policy once again instead of pushing it up to 2016 to start seeing the failure again.

  87. Ga6th @ 11:03pm, agree with you. What a shame it worked out the way it did.

    belle, thanks for putting up the math. I will be dancing and singing for joy if it works out that way, and will even cut Jill some slack, but if it doesn’t change anything, she’ll always be Jill Nader II to me. I don’t care what she does with her donations. I agree with you it would be wonderful if AZ and FL also had recounts.

  88. Bellecat,
    I remember seeing an interview w/some of the PA people in charge if the voting machines ( on MSNBC,I believe) and they indicated that some of the machines had this paper/ scroll like thingy attached to the machine that recorded actual votes. This was not true of all the machines,though I imagine they could do some statistical analysis comparing those counties with and without the paper trail.

    I’m hoping that Hillary,Bill and Obama get together and start a massive movement to insure our rights to vote and get rid of those machines w/out a confirming paper trail. Why make the Repubs job easier.

  89. William @ 9:03, thanks for that info. Gives us a little hope for the future if the recounts don’t help us.

    LOL about “lief”. I’m definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed around here, but I love reading old books, and always have. I love old fashioned words and terminology. You can’t use them with the younger generations.

  90. Those voting machines should be outlawed in every state (they are in CA). Remember how they gave W Ohio in 2004, which won him the election?

  91. William, yet another reason Obama should appoint Garland, as you so apt illustrated @ 9:03 was in his power to do: another part of the voting rights violations in NC that were overturned at the district court level has just made it to the Supreme Court:

    Nothing, -nothing- should be more important to the first African American President than reversing the rollback in voting rights that has taken place at such frightening speed in the U.S. A recess appointment could at least halt this for now. But as Annie would say 🙂 , he’d as lief not.

  92. I was thinking that as a young boy I would sometimes watch a show which my parents recommended, which was a series based on JFK’s book “Profiles in Courage.” I don’t remember if it was all dramatization, or more narrated. The idea, at least as I remembered it, was that there are times in history when someone has to do something which may be risky or unpopular, but which is done out of conscience and perspective and bravery. We look back and salute such people, but oh how difficult it must have been to have been them then, making the courageous decision which in some cases led to their careers being destroyed, or their reputation ruined until time and history restored it.

    And that is what we desperately need now. Some people with the courage to simply stop what many see as inevitable, and not throwing up their hands and saying, “Well, it is a shame, but what can you do? We must not upset the course of things, and set a bad precedent, or seem unfair?” Unfair to what? There are a few moments in history where precedent and politesse are completely inapposite and even destructive.. Electors have a role to play in our government, and let them now use it, to validate the Founders’ reliance upon them. There are leaders who can speak up loudly, and do everything they can to alter course. Yes, it is risky for them; and yes, it would be met with outrage from some quarters. But that is what made America, in myth, and in some cases, in reality. This nightmare can actually be avoided, if enough people who have the power to avoid it, actually use that right for the greater good.

    Peter, Paul, and Mary once sang, “Take your place on/the great mandala/as it moves through your brief moment of time./Win or lose now/you must choose now/And if you lose, you’re only losing your life.”

  93. Argh – aptly, dangit, APTLY!

  94. Bellecat @9:36 PM – AGREE with everything you said! Trying not to get my hopes up too much so as not to be disappointed again, but feeling for the first time since Nov. 8 that there MAY finally be a light at the end of this long, dark tunnel.

  95. Me at 12:13 – that’s in reference to a comment that’s in moderation, in case anyone was wondering.

  96. I’m kinda confused about voting machines, and paper ballots or not.

    Where I vote, I fill out a paper ballot, receive the stub on the top with a number of my ballot’s identification. Then I feed that ballot into a machine that reads my vote and counts it.

    If there is no paper trail, that seems like a machine that would be like a big touch screen monitor. How do you know if your vote was recorded or not. Do you get a receipt with your vote’s ID number?

    Stein was saying the voting machines in WI or Pen (can’t remember which state), used voting machines that were illegal in CA because they could be hacked or tampered with.

    The Dems had better get on the stick and quit being so timid about this election. There are about 60 years of progress that is about to get wiped out, and future block headed Supremes that will keep it that way.

  97. Check this at:

    After “Winning”, Unhinged Trump Now Says the Election was Fraudulent

  98. Also check this:

    Framing Trump

    November 28, 2016 by still4hill

  99. Drumpf is always gaslighting, and now more than ever. Frantic paranoid evil liar.

  100. If this is what Trump supporters are like this after “winning”, what would they have been like if they lost?

  101. A little bit of good news here in Western NC: the Republican Board of Elections threw out the current Republican governor’s bogus vote challenges in all 52 counties. In addition, Roy Cooper is now within 300 votes of the 10000 vote lead needed to prevent McCrory from getting a recount. In typical Rethuglican trickery, though, his bogus appeals seems to have delayed the vote certification so long that he’ll get one anyway.

    And – we got rain! It’s badly needed – after a three month drought, fires have been very bad in Western NC, North Georgia and even parts of upstate South Carolina. Parts of the beautiful Smokies, the Nantahalas and Joyce Kilmer Wilderness have been burned, Gatlinburg has lost homes and businesses to fire, it’s been evacuated and the Smokies National Park has been closed. Forecast is for rain to continue for several days.

    It’s too bad these events aren’t going to change any minds among the overwhelming number of Dump’s supporters here about global warming and the necessity of government resources. They’ll just chalk up the fires to bad luck or the “gummit” somehow and the rain to Jesus answering their personal prayers.

  102. Wow … that lady off on a rant in Michaels. I plainly see that she’s racist, but where the hell did she dream up that the woman filming her had a shop-lifting toddler and a cheating husband? Can you even imagine seeing the world through those eyes?

  103. About the voting machines and paper ballots – Where I vote, you just touch the screen and a green X appears by your candidate’s name. When you’re done and you’re satisfied that all the green Xes are where you want them to be, you push a button marked Cast Vote (or Ballot, I forget which) and all the green Xes go away and supposedly your vote is counted. No paper of any kind is given to verify that you have indeed voted for so-and-so. It seems risky to me. I voted for Hillary. Was my vote counted for Hillary? I have no way of knowing.

  104. Yes, that ranting white woman is a typical Trump supporter and is playing the race card to try and back up her shitty behavior. She is everything I hate about the Deplorables.

  105. Branjor

    Yipes, you get nothing back, no vote number? No receipt, no stub??
    What state do you live in?

  106. Vote count, our girl is going to have 65 million votes soon:

    Hillary total: 64,826,475

    Dumbtruck: 62,493,730

    Hillary leads by: 2,332,745 votes…so far.

    CA still has 961,708 votes to count.

    I have no idea how many votes still need to be counted in all the other states. If anyone has a link to a live count in other states, please let me know.

  107. This article was posted back on Nov 16th when Hillary’s lead was much smaller, but some of the facts still remain, are even more dramatic today.

    Hillary Clinton’s Popular-Vote Victory Is Unprecedented—and Still Growing

    Her margin is now bigger than the winning margins for John Kennedy and Richard Nixon.


    Never has so big a popular-vote victory been trumped by the Electoral College.

    The United States has no clear and consistent national standard for holding elections or for counting votes. The rules differ radically from state to state. In some states, election officials are already engaged on the process of establishing a final official count. In other states, ballots are still being counted. The big distinction is between states that do most of their voting on Election Day and states that rely heavily on “absentee” ballots and mail voting. It happens that many of the bigger states that make it easier to vote (at the polls and by mail) are states that favored Clinton.

    The biggest of these is California, where Clinton is ahead 62-33 percent at this point. California election officials explain: “It typically takes weeks for counties to process and count all of the ballots. Elections officials have approximately one month (28 days for presidential electors and 30 days for all other contests) to complete their extensive tallying, auditing, and certification work (known as the ‘official canvass’)

    Elite media outlets do not, for the most part, have an interest in vote counts and what they mean. Coverage of the 2016 election campaign confirmed the extent to which major media are more interested in personalities than facts on the ground. The television networks like to declare a “winner” and then get focused on the palace intrigues surrounding a transition of power. Those intrigues are worth covering. But perspective on the will of the people get lost. Election-night numbers get locked in, and that’s that. There may be a notation that Clinton won “a narrow popular-vote” margin, but rarely is there a deep dive—even as the “narrow” margin grows to something much more substantial.

    more: https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-victory-is-unprecedented-and-still-growing/

  108. Media once again chasing tweets instead of the news that our country is about to be led by a man who has no idea what he is doing. This is a real country and it will be led by a band of crack-brained extremists who are set on destroying any semblance of laws we have on the books.

    And, even I will comment on one of the tweets. I have never believed that service men and women fight for “the flag.” They fight for our Constitution and our nation of citizens. It has nothing to do with any flag, even as a symbol. I respect our flag, but I don’t see how you love an inanimate object. Or make it a religious icon.

    The more important issues are: freedom of speech, Medicare, health care, upholding our laws, having leaders who are leaders of all the people and not the minority. I am sure I missed a few.

    I am hopeful that even Ryan and Turnipp can’t get rid of Medicare but who knows, with the new HHS far right ‘person’ added in?

  109. Shadow at 12:48pm

  110. oops! forgot the comment…

    Good posting and the link to The Nation, a very good article…

  111. When a dumbass gets pushed into the Oval by the Deplorable minority.
    Trump calls for jailing, revoking citizenship of flag-burners
    Laws prohibiting the burning or desecration of the American flag have been struck down by the Supreme Court.

    Burning an American flag should be a crime, President-elect Donald Trump wrote on Twitter Tuesday morning, punishable by a forfeiture of U.S. citizenship or a year in jail.

    “Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag – if they do, there must be consequences – perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!” Trump wrote in a post to his social media account.


  112. PM and Moon, please come back, I miss you both.

  113. It appears that every state has their own guidelines and laws. Stein’s lawyer file a lawsuit in behalf of 100 voters of 100 precincts…read more in link below.

    Stein moves for Pennsylvania recount

    By Daniel Strauss

    11/28/16 05:06 PM EST

    Updated 11/28/16 05:05 PM EST


  114. Shadowfax – I live in southern New Jersey. There is a slip of paper I had to give to a man standing by the voting booth before going into the booth and voting. Nothing after voting and exiting the booth. I will have to ask about that to make sure there wasn’t something I could have gotten, but I sure wasn’t told there was.

  115. Branjor: I live in PA, our machines/process are the same as yours only they use green arrows instead of x’s. I am always nervous when I vote for fear of hitting the wrong button. We too get the slip of paper to hand the person who directs you to an open booth; I believe they write something on it but I never looked at the piece of paper, I always thought it was proof that I had gotten through the book validation. The signature in the book is the machine generated one that I made when I got my driver’s license, they match that book signature to my sign in signature the day of. I also gave them my driver’s license for photo ID but I am not sure if it was required.

  116. I don’t believe this for a second…probably one of those ‘fake’ news stories put out by alt deplorables.


  117. Banjor and Cats…I would call your county and find out how they can prove your vote was counted,

    I just reregistered as a Dem in my county, (online), they had me as a mail-in voter, which I have never done, and I changed it. I don’t want my vote counted after the media already calls the winner. It was all safe online, I had to put in personal info and then consent to the DMV verifying my signature.

  118. Shadow @ 3:24 pm: The Blaze is a right wing website, so, yeah, that’s false. I guarantee you the last thing on Hillary’s mind is another run for president. But how else will the vast right wing conspiracy keep all the Hillary hate going if she’s just a private citizen?

  119. Brassy, thanks for the feedback on the Blaze, I had no idea who they were, although I have heard of them before.

    Yes, Hillary’s no-make up face says it all to me. A lot of women where I work and live, including myself have been so upset after the election, we just have all said, “Phuck it!” with the make up. I find myself wearing a lot of black these days…

    I am also sure Hillary wanting to run again is the LAST thing she is thinking.

  120. Any news about Stein’s lawsuit to demand a hand count in WI? I have a feeling any other kind of recount would only show the same result and maybe not include absentee and provisional ballots ( which the Repubs are probably hanging their hats on.)

    So glad the decision was made to ask for this recount,no matter who’s really behind it. We,the MAJORITY who voted for Hillary needed a visible sign that she/someone was willing to fight to protect our votes.
    Also hoping that Bill,Hillary, Barack,Michelle,James Carville,Donna Brazile et al will start a campaign to counter the Koch brother’s take over of the country and our right to vote.

    A part of me still believes that the Koch’s knew their kind of Repub could never get elected,so set up this straw man backed by voter suppression and disenfranchisement . Once Trump’s prez,they’ll move to impeach ( as he’s likely to engage in some impeachable behavior minutes after taking office) Then it’s Prez Pence and a clear field to take over the country w/their conservative agenda. How’s that for a conspiracy theory?

  121. Msdsal
    How’s that for a conspiracy theory?

    Anything is possible with a wannabe mob boss in the oval.

  122. Msdsal, Pence is funded by the Koch’s. They have their man in the White House, as well as the new CIA person from Kansas. I don’t think it is just conspiracy. it seems to be reality. I have thought this for months.

  123. I agree birdgal. FBI and DOJ will also be in their pocket, plus all the data in the NSA…

  124. Details about Pennsylvania election recount: How does it work?

  125. Let’s take a look at Florida…

    The total votes reported: 9,122,861

    Tramp got (?) 112,911 more votes than Hillary

    112,911 over 9,122,861 = 0.0123 or 1.23%

    It’s just a hair over the margin for a recount request…

    Shouldn’t Florida be recounted?… I say yes.

    In a state of more than 9 million registered voters, a so-call win by 112,911 more votes by Trump “the trinket” requires an audit and recount.

  126. It looks like Upps has left her blog all to myself…
    yoo-hoo…where are you?

  127. Shoot,I was hoping that Upps was just taking a much needed break from the stress of it all. I hoped she was just lurking for a bit. But,hey,the woman’s held this space for us ( w/the help of a few good folk) for 8 plus years. If she feels the need to pass it on..well,I honor her work;wish to express my gratitude and wish her well being and healing.

    May the Force be with you,Upps. ( and may your furnace now keep you warm)

  128. Everyone needs to take a break now and then, especially in times like these.

  129. Hillary Clinton has filed a motion to intervene in a lawsuit filed by Jill Stein seeking to require all Wisconsin counties to recount presidential votes by hand.

    A Dane County judge is set to hear the Green Party candidate’s case Tuesday at 4:30 p.m. If Stein is unsuccessful, each of Wisconsin’s 72 counties will have the choice of counting ballots by hand or by machine.

    Also on Tuesday, Stein’s campaign is required to submit $3.5 million to cover the costs of the recount, a figure based on estimates provided to the state Elections Commission by county clerks. The actual projected cost is $3.9 million, but the cost given to Stein’s campaign was $400,000 short of that due to an adding error.

    Stein called the cost “exorbitant” and “excessive” but said she plans to pay it. Elections administrator Michael Haas said Stein’s campaign will be refunded if the recount comes in under the stated cost.


  130. Here’s photo of Dump with his turkey neck, the one he screamed at the media about the other day. Good for your dartboard.

    His buddy Breitbark always posted the photos of our girl when she fell or when she had to wear those big thick black glasses.


    I see some good links posted on DU. these days…

  131. I don’t know how many here follow Gene Weingarten on washpost but he could almost be an honorary hrc woman the way he feels about Turnipp. If inclined, his monthly discussion was today: https://live.washingtonpost.com/chatological-humor-20161129.html
    He is a humor columnist. He thinks T voters are traitors.
    If you don’t find him with the URL, search “live chats.”

    Back to the vote validation. I have voted in several states, including VA, NE, MS, NC, and others and have never gotten any receipt of any kind to show that I voted. I got the little round “I voted” sticker and that was it.

    And I join those who hope Uppity has her furnace fixed by now.

  132. Have to add one more thing. I flat out (Southern term) hate Nina Turner. She is on Chris Hayes now talking and I don’t know why she gets any air time at all. Just told Joan Walsh that she said something she did not say. Please. Get. Her. Away. from. TV! Maybe Bernie will hire her as a staffer. He should.

  133. I agree Sweet Sue, it’s been a big shocking blow… and I can feel it for Upps and many others the need to breath away…

    And what gives it more of an emotional impact is that we were not defeated, “we won and won big”. Yet in this election is not politics, we are dealing instead with “demons” that have united and master minded this coup at all levels…regardless of country and people.

    I understand Upps and those that proudly have built and believed in our America, the home of the free at the verge of collapse…

    I myself couldn’t sleep and eat for days, I decided to fight and get involved and do whatever I can to bring clarity to this wrong…

    I’m so happy that our Hillary still with us…sorting and working through this maze of unwelcome and negative energy…

    As woody the pecker would say: Let the Force be with all of us…

  134. If the Democrats listen to Sanders and Nina Turner, they will never win another election. Angry Leftists telling everyone else what they should think, will alienate a lot more voters than they will ever bring in. They will be the death of the Democratic Party, and should be ignored, and left to fulminate on their own.

    There were so many factors which, if even one had not existed, would have meant a substantial victory for Hillary. But of all of them, Sanders and his doings may well have been the worst and most damaging. He and some of his followers pushed the country off a cliff. But they are so self-righteous and ideological, they will always blame such things on the stupidity of those who do not see how doctrinaire and pure they are. The Far Left has been doing this kind of thing for many years. Some of them hated FDR because he wasn’t pure enough fo them. They are a real danger to any efforts to resist and even overcome the Republican control of mechanisms of government. As is typical of them,Sanders never helped any Democrat win anything, nor has Turner. All they do is rant and complain and undermine.

  135. William:
    Very good points, as it’s been expressed before extreme left is equal to extreme right…and it was just as damaging when they call themselves democrats. Yet the difference with the extreme right, in this election all factions unified and (kind of sort) won.

    To which the democrats, specially those on the far-extreme left are having hard time to grasp and understand the basic concept of Hillary’s motto: “stronger together”; and the very old political tactic: “divide and conquer”: the policy of maintaining control over one’s subordinates or subjects by encouraging dissent between them.

  136. Mitt gave a little press speech after his dinner with El Douche. He praised him like he is his new hero.

    Gack, Mitt sold his soul to the demon.

  137. There is a petition for a recount in Florida on change.org. They state that a losing candidate can not request one, so they are petitioning Florida’s secretary of state for it. The letter brings up how it was almost impossible for him to overcome her early vote lead. Like William, I am link challenged, but if you go to change.org, and search florida recount, it will take you there.

  138. Greg:
    Can you post the link of the fl petition?

  139. trixta:
    good link of our Hillary…she is alive and well… ready to charge on…

  140. Thanks for posting the surprise visit photos of our Hillary. Looks like she has got some of the twinkle back in her eyes. It makes me happy to see her snap photos every few days.

    Hillary ❤

  141. Scott Walker is thoroughly contemptible. I would say evil, but he is not smart enough for that. He’s just a classless and stupid jerk, whom the people of Wisconsin elected twice, which should have given us all the sense of how far Wisconsin has fallen. Recounts are legal, so why doesn’t Walker shut up and go back to trying to suppress votes, which is his stock in trade? No one has to justify a recount to Walker. It was 27,000, now it is 22,000 even before the recount, because three counties in Walker’s state padded Trump’s totals by 5,000 votes. People should go to jail for that, and so should Walker, for denying minorities their constitutional right to vote.

  142. Hillary has almost won 65 million votes –

    Hillary 64,902,259

    El Douche 62,535,892

    Hillary is winning the popular vote by 2,366,367 votes!

    713,252 votes still left to count in CA alone.

  143. Something I just posted ended up in the dumper.

    I will try to post it in two parts, first this short video explaining….

  144. And here’s the story…

    Anti-Trump electors form fundraising committee

    By KYLE CHENEY 11/29/16 07:53 PM EST

    A coalition of anti-Trump Electoral College members has opened a nonprofit political committee that enables it to raise funds in support of a three-week mad dash to halt Donald Trump’s election.

    The group, which has dubbed itself Hamilton Electors, registered a 527 political committee with Colorado’s secretary of state on Tuesday; 527 is a reference to the section of the federal tax code that provides for tax-exempt political organizations.

    The organization lists its incorporation address in Las Vegas, though it is registered to Micheal Baca, a Democratic elector from Colorado and a leader of the group. Baca and a handful of other Democratic electors are building an organization to lobby Republican counterparts to reject Trump.

    Though it’s unclear how quickly the group could raise money and what it would be used for, there’s an appetite among those disgruntled by the impending Trump presidency to resist. A last-minute effort by Green Party candidate Jill Stein to file recounts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin has generated more than $6 million. And a change.org petition encouraging presidential electors to reject Trump has garnered more than 4.5 million signatures.

    Baca and his allies are seeking to replace Trump with a mainstream Republican — such as Mitt Romney or John Kasich. So far, no Republican electors have publicly joined their cause, though the Democratic electors insist they’re privately making inroads.

    Their time is limited. The 538 members of the Electoral College — including 306 Republicans — are slated to meet Dec. 19 in their respective state capitals to cast the official vote for president.

    Earlier Tuesday, Hamilton Electors released a YouTube video featuring one of its leaders — Washington state elector P. Bret Chiafalo — arguing that the country’s founders intended the Electoral College to be a fail-safe to prevent election of an unfit president. And, he says, Trump is that unfit person.

    The Trump campaign has declined repeated requests for comment on the Electoral College effort.


  145. I mentioned Scott Walker politicizing the previously non-partisan Election Commission in Wisconsin a couple of days ago. And the judiciary is probably now stocked with Walker hacks too. You shouldn’t have to go to court to get a hand recount. A recount is supposed to be a count by hand. Otherwise, what’s the point?

    The damage done by GOP control of so many governorships and state legislatures has been disastrous. And, yes, a lot of that is on Obama.

  146. Why So Many Hillary Supporters Donated To Jill Stein’s Recount Effort

    Many of us gave a few bucks — not next month’s rent check, a few bucks — to Jill Stein’s recount efforts. Why? Because we have no other alternatives to stop what we feel is an unfair election. The institutions we have trusted in the past have lost our trust, and let us down. In a little more than 24 hours, Stein’s efforts raised $4.5 million from we the people. The voters.

    In response to Stein’s recount effort, there’s been a whole lot of snide and condescending comments by members of the media and prognosticators. Quick trip down memory lane: a couple of weeks ago, almost all of you said Hillary was a sure thing. Take that in. With few exceptions, which no one took seriously, every media pundit and reporter and columnist had the election going for Hillary. The prognosticators, who we were supposed to trust, were without exception wrong too. If memory serves, here are the odds they gave Hillary of winning: Sam Wang (98 percent), Nate Cohn (84 percent), Nate Silver (70 percent). So you’ll forgive us after you look down your noses at, and disparage we the people — the people who en masse donated to Jill Stein’s efforts over the past 24 hours — when we say in return, we don’t give a rat’s ass what you think!

    How can we trust that this election was fair? Starting with the allegations of Russian interference: the hacks into the DNC, the voting machines in Florida, and Hillary’s campaign; the efforts to spread fake news; the conversations with Donald and Donald Jr. before the election (the media missed these pre-election). Oh, and someone may have bugged the DNC headquarters. Wonder who was behind that? The NSA chief said Russia hacked the election, but did so after the election, and did nothing about it. Then there’s the FBI, which, while in contact with Trump surrogate Rudy Giuliani, issued the Comey letter 11 days before the election, which seems a whole lot like a deliberate action to throw the election (it succeeded). The “damn emails” again FBI, but not a single public update or action on Russia’s interference with our election? So you’ll forgive us if we’ve lost our trust in institutions responsible for protecting we the people.

    Then there’s our media, which, with the exception of a handful of journalists, was essentially a moribund appendage of Trump Entertainment TV during the election. Admissions like, “It may not be good for America, but It’s damn good for CBS,” (Leslie Moonves), and “We wanted access and Donald Trump gave it to us,” (Jeff Zucker) — don’t exactly inspire confidence from the American people! No, we get it: you’re out to make a buck and boost ratings, not practice journalism. Almost none of the bombshells now coming out each and every day about Trump, were reported before we voted — so, you’ll forgive us if we’ve stopped watching and clicking, and increasingly find our news from people we trust on Facebook and Twitter.

    I’ll admit I was prodded a little by Rachel Maddow’s show Wednesday night, but where I am coming out is this: regardless of the #Recount2016 results, I do not view Donald Trump as a legitimate president. There I said it. He has over 2,000,000 FEWER votes than Hillary from we the people. When all is counted, that number likely will be closer to 2,5000,000 fewer votes — the biggest margin of loss since the unusual election after the Civil War in 1876. So no, he does not have a mandate. And after eight years of saying President Obama wasn’t legitimate because of the color of his skin, I say to Donald Trump for all the reasons above, including your apparent collusion with Russia to get here, you do not have a mandate and you are not legitimate in my eyes, and I am hardly alone. You have unearthed and legitimized the worst in us — the hate, the bullying, the violence, the fear — you are not legitimate.

    Pray for #Recount2016.

    UPDATE: Yesterday, prognosticators Nate Silver and Nate Cohn came out in favor of the recount. Over the weekend, PEOTUS Donald Trump sent out 13 bizarre and factually incorrect tweets about the recount.


  147. Katy Perry honors HRC (Hillary introduced Katy at UNICEF award)

  148. Shadow: so 37 patriotic republican electors can stop Donald and put a white male republican not on the ballot in the presidency? They sure don’t want the people’s choice either according to that video. I had assumed the electors would be voting for the two candidates on the ballot not a wild card. Hillary would certainly meet the three characteristics they were seeking in a prez, so WTF??? Why go off the ballot?

  149. Cats, agree, they shouldn’t be allowed to vote for Ted Cruz or some other horrible choice. God I hate the Electoral College.

  150. Pelosi has been re-elected Minority Leader. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting to get a different result. Where are all the people who complained we need “fresh blood” when Hillary was the party’s nominee? Dems in Congress still being led by Schumer and Pelosi, two Washington insiders for decades longer than Hillary.

  151. Republicans simply do not have the capacity to do anything more than push their Repubilcan agenda. All those “Never Trumpers” were people who wanted another Republican instead of Trump. Except for a few people like David Frum, and Ana Navarro, they would have accepted anyone rather than Hillary. If electors do not vote for Trump, it would throw things to the House, which would of course pick a Republican.

    The Republicans have gamed every aspect of our flawed political system in their favor. And it might well be time for Democrats to start referring to “Republican dictatorship,” or a similar term. People are mostly very low-information in this era.. Maybe such terms might get through to them. I think most people naively believe that we have checks and balances; bjut we do not, not when the Republican Senate can block Obama’s Supreme Court nominee from even getting a hearing. Any Democrat who thinks, or pretends to act like, Republicans can be negotiated with, or moderated, or worked with, is doing a great disservice. Biden’s comment a few months ago, criticizing Hillary for saying “Deplorables,” and telling us that “Paul Rayan is one of the good guys,” is a depressing example. Ryan is a political, ideological fanatic, who would take an election in which his canddiate got 2.5 million less votes, and in which privatizing or eliminating Mediare and Social Security was not an issue discussed, into his insane mandate to do just that. Unless Democrats at least try to tell the people how a minority party has gerrymandered, packed the courts, passed suppressive voting laws, all to thrwart the will of the American majority, things will never change. This is undoubtedly the greatest internal threat to what was an Amerian democracy, in our country’s history. And the only slim hope we have left is that enough people will wake up to it, to do the things which desperately have to be done, including finding ways to get voter IDs if necessary, standing in line to vote for ten hours if necessary, working at the grass roots level to get Democrats elected to city and state positions. Don’t do that, and it’s game and democracy over.

  152. Brassy, I know. Hillary had been in Washington too long but Bernie who had been there longer had not. Frankly I’m glad the Bernie Bros lost on the leadership. They are going to have wailing fits over Schumer.

  153. There’s a big push for Hogue as DNC chair. Sorry Bernie babies you are losing again.

  154. William: it is my understanding that the decision would go to the House only if the electoral votes were tied.

    If my Repub friends are any indication, they refuse to discuss anything or listen to opposing arguments. It is basically Rep good, Dem bad, and Hillary is a scourge upon humanity who must be destroyed once and for all. They moved on with their lives after they voted (if they voted at all because the choices were sooo bad) and by all appearances couldn’t care less that we are hurtling toward a cliff. I suspect many Dems aren’t any more interested or concerned than the average Rep. Everything is going to be fine….until it isn’t and it will be too late. Like cows watching a passing train (to paraphrase Don Henley).

  155. Ga6th, I wonder why so many in Congress still allow Bernie to pontificate on “what the Democratic Party needs to do” when he is not a member of the party. Voting with the party is not the same as having a right to direct its organization and strategies, at least not in my puny view. They give him, a rep who has done little in his career, far more leeway than they gave the woman whose candidacy he wrecked, and a woman who has significantly contributed to quality of life for many in our country since the ’90s.
    Whatcha bet that Schumer fawns over him too?

  156. Twitter tracks Hillary Clinton sightings post election

    Prestige selfie shooters may want to consider heading to the woods outside of Chappaqua, New York, to grab that perfect shot of “HRC” in the wild.


  157. Don’t Worry Your Pretty Little Heads About What Hillary Clinton Is Up To


  158. Cats,cats
    Hillary would certainly meet the three characteristics they were seeking in a prez, so WTF???
    I thought the same thing, then looked at the number of D vs R EC voters, and my guess is that the Dems don’t think they have enough voters in total to put in Hillary, but might have enough R’s that would rather put in some R that is more moderate.

  159. You’re welcome, bellecat and Shadow (1:16pm and 1:37pm). Imust, thank you for posting the actual video of Hillary introducing Katy Perry. No surprise, Hillary looks as resilient as ever. Shadow, about a week ago I saw a report on the dissenting Colorado electors (some of whom are Bobers) and was also dismayed about their scheme to vote for someone who didn’t run in the GE. FKRS! BTW, Jill Stein was on The View today and was definitely on her best behavior, focusing on “standing for the integrity of the vote,” rather than on her usual slamming of Hillary.

  160. Aren’t the electors supposed to be nonpartisan when fulfilling their duties? Plus there is still the issue of voting for someone not on the ballot who hasn’t been nominated to run or campaigned this cycle. Picking Hillary over Trump would be a hard sell but someone NO ONE voted for?

  161. Million Women March on Washington

    Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 12:01 PM – 11 PM Lincoln Memorial
    (Update: date will change because the Mall was already reserved by other groups)

    March from Lincoln Memorial to White House to show our strength, power and courage and demonstrate our disapproval of the new president and his values in a peaceful march. Daughters and granddaughters welcome as well as like-minded men, sons, grandsons. Invite your friends, family and co-workers. Spread the word! Let the world know we women stand with all women! No woman is free unless all women are free.

    DEAL. ME. IN.

    NEWS (AS OF NOVEMBER 14, 2016)

    This is a new movement so the organizers don’t have the details fully fleshed out yet. A little patience, please.
    They’re working on getting permits to march. Without the permits they can’t do much else. The paperwork was filed last week.
    CHECK YOUR STATE FB MARCH PAGE to connect with people in your local area.
    “We especially need HOSTS and ORGANIZERS from marginalized communities for this to be truly inclusive, please DM your state administrator to get involved! “
    They’re asking for volunteers to run Facebook sites and help co-ordinate for some states and countries without a page currently. (To volunteer see below.)

    OFFICIAL STATEMENT, National Organizers

    On January 21, 2017 we will unite in Washington, DC for the Women’s March on Washington. We stand together in solidarity with our partners and children for the protection of our rights, our safety, our health, and our families – recognizing that our vibrant and diverse communities are the strength of our country.

    The rhetoric of the past election cycle has insulted, demonized, and threatened many of us–women, immigrants of all statuses, those with diverse religious faiths particularly Muslim, people who identify as LGBTQIA, Native and Indigenous people, Black and Brown people, people with disabilities, the economically impoverished and survivors of sexual assault. We are confronted with the question of how to move forward in the face of national and international concern and fear.

    In the spirit of democracy and honoring the champions of human rights, dignity, and justice who have come before us, we join in diversity to show our presence in numbers too great to ignore. The Women’s March on Washington will send a bold message to our new administration on their first day in office, and to the world that women’s rights are human rights. We stand together, recognizing that defending the most marginalized among us is defending all of us.

    We support the advocacy and resistance movements that reflect our multiple and intersecting identities. We call on all defenders of human rights to join us. This march is the first step towards unifying our communities, grounded in new relationships, to create change from the grassroots level up. We will not rest until women have parity and equity at all levels of leadership in society. We work peacefully while recognizing there is no true peace without justice and equity for all. HEAR OUR VOICE.


  162. Sorry the post above is so long, I tried to delete part of it…but it showed up anyway.

  163. Starting January 20, Donald Trump Can Send Unblockable Mass Text Messages to the Entire Nation


  164. Right now I think people are just coddling that old fool Bernie. However while Bernie is wandering around yelling the party is quietly putting people in leadership who are not Bernie Bros.

  165. Starting January 20, Donald Trump Can Send Unblockable Mass Text Messages to the Entire Nation.

    I’m gonna be pretty ticked at the first person to hit “Reply All”.

  166. HRC’s speech at UNICEF last night:

  167. Anti-Trump forces are preparing an unprecedented assault on the Electoral College, marked by a wave of lawsuits and an intensive lobbying effort aimed at persuading 37 Republican electors to vote for a candidate other than Donald Trump.

    It’s a bracing stress-test for an institution that Alexander Hamilton envisioned as a safeguard against popular whims, and a direct challenge to the role that the Electoral College has evolved to play in picking the president: constitutional rubber stamp.

    Behind the overt anti-Trump push is a covert agenda: If the courts establish that individual electors can switch allegiances, supporting candidates other than those who win their states, it would inject so much uncertainty into the process that states may be willing to junk the Electoral College in favor of a popular-vote winner.

    “There might well be a clamor to get rid of the Electoral College altogether, a move that would have some disadvantages (like eliminating Hamilton’s safeguard) but many advantages as well,” wrote Laurence Tribe, a constitutional law professor at Harvard University, in an email. “Anyhow, clamor and anger have become par for the course in this loony election year.”

    Per Politico, it’s picking up steam…

  168. F*ck the judge and these states running up the recount efforts. We have to pay millions and jump through hoops to ensure a fair and honest election in this country. Unreal. I no longer have any hope for the system to help us, I lost it election night and there was a small glimmer of hope that this would run smoothly but alas no. In countries where exit polls are so off from the vote we call that fraud! And consider it a faulty election. Not here though, we must suffer and accept every steaming pile of shite coming our way

  169. Brassy @ 1:13pm, agree 100%

  170. I understand those electors are looking for a compromise candidate like Romney. However it’s also my understanding that they can’t pick someone who wasn’t actually on the ballot.

  171. We have completely lost faith in all our institutions after this election. We’ve lost faith in our country. We’ve lost faith in the voters of this country that would vote for someone like Trump. We’ve lost faith in the media to tell us the facts. The only people that can solve this is the GOP since they are the ones that are going to control all the levers and they are too craven and cowardly to do what is right for the country. they’re only interested in getting their grubby tax cuts.

  172. Not that anyone cares but Hillary just passed the 65 million mark, of votes she won.

    65,001,074 and most of those votes did not come from CA.

  173. Fixit Fairy

    Could you please delete my post at:
    November 30, 2016 at 3:54 PM
    Million Women March on Washington

    It takes up too much space.

  174. Yay Hillary!!! I think a lot of people care.

  175. If I understand correctly, if the electors don’t vote for Trump, they have to vote for someone who actually ran so for them it would have to be Cruz or Rubio if they won’t choose Hillary.

  176. Does anyone have a current status rundown for the recounts in PA,WI and PA?

    Heard on the radio that WI Repubs are accusing Stein of coordinating the request for the recount w/Hillary..which I guess is illegal. They said Hillary had to be behind the request because she was the only one who stood to benefit. Like voting integrity doesn’t benefit us all. Isn’t always about winning ,Repubs!!

    Something must be VERY WRONG and VERY PROVABLE or the Repubs wouldn’t be having such hissy fits. ( Hissy fit-Southern for a temper tantrum)

  177. Msdsal

    Something must be VERY WRONG and VERY PROVABLE or the Repubs wouldn’t be having such hissy fits.

    I sure hope so, and they find the proof.

  178. I’m with you Shadow. Walker sounds like he’s got something to hide. If they think Stein is going to do anything for Hillary they are beyond stupid.

  179. Brassy Rebel, I am glad Pelosi has been re-elected Minority Leader. The one person running against her (the new blood) was basically spouting Bernie bullshit about white working class morons. (And yes, they are morons if they couldn’t figure out that they needed a skill other than coal 50 years ago.) Nancy was the one asking the right Dem questions after the election. While I do have my issues with her, I decided that she was the best option of the two. Then seeing how Ryan’s fan started calling her a hag, it was sealed for me. I have a soft spot for hags.

  180. Ga6thDem,
    I’m with you Shadow. Walker sounds like he’s got something to hide.

    Yes, and as anyone with kids knows that the more they protest that they did nothing wrong, the more you know they are trying to throw you off the track.

  181. Re state counts. I got this spreadsheet from someone’s tweet.


    It shows counts by state.

  182. This is a better link to continually updated state counts:

  183. I thought I was either beginning to heal, or had gone completely numb….then I saw this video on the bottom tweet and starting crying all over again.

  184. I guess Nancy is better than the Ryan guy, but I wish we could have had someone else. There are lots of great democratic congresspeople that would have energized the left more than Nancy.

  185. Love the Fight song vid. Thanks for that imust! Ditto to what you said.

  186. Sophie @ 9:57 pm: Talk about choosing the lesser of two evils! I didn’t necessarily want Ryan either. I didn’t see that he was the only option besides Pelosi until after I posted that. But my point stands. The Democrats should realize that two old warhorses like Pelosi and Schumer are not a good look for the party since they will now be de facto leaders, not just of Congress, but the whole party. Ironically, if Hillary were going to be president, it wouldn’t matter as much. She would be the leader. It’s a further indication that the party is in rotten shape that no one steps up besides a Bernie clone, and the only argument their supporters can make is sexist. Although actually Ryan did support Hillary in the primary, but you’re right. That WWC argument is just Marxist crap and another symptom of the party’s problems.

    The party needs young, more diverse leadership, and I wish some of the women and POC in the caucus had stepped up. And Schumer is seen as taking his turn. That’s no way to choose such an important and visible position. Neither one is a very effective communicator or creative thinker.

  187. Gray-days, on November 30, 2016 at 11:25 PM said:
    Re state counts.
    Yes GrayDays,

    That’s the same data I have been using on the blog. Only problem is that the data does not show how many votes are still not counted.

  188. Please, Shadow, continue to update on the vote count. I don’t have time during the week because of work. And it’s important. Also, it drives the Trumpsters absolutely bonkers!

  189. imust

    I thought I was either beginning to heal, or had gone completely numb.

    It makes me cry too. I know I haven’t begun to heal nor have I become numb…I am just hanging on to some future hope that may never come, I am angry as Hell and I am in fight mode.

    I’ve been posting anything that might give a little hope, and when I see any photo of Hillary, I think of how she never gives up.

    Maybe I am living in a sort of state of delusion, but I think millions of other American’s are too…and we are not ready to give up yet.


  190. Brassy Rebel, on December 1, 2016 at 12:45 AM said:
    Please, Shadow, continue to update on the vote count.

    Thanks for saying that Brassy, I will continue.

  191. Vote count

    Hillary 65,001,074

    DipShit 62,578,111 –> Yes, he has been stuck at 62 mil plus for 10 days.

    Hillary’s vote lead is 2,422,963

    CA still has 599,391 votes to count. I don’t have data on any other state on the votes that need to be counted.

  192. Brassy Rebel, I agree with you in essence here. But pragmatically, Pelosi is Minority Leader, and she wanted to retain her position, so she would have had to have been unseated in a “revolt.” And that wouldn’t look too good; plus, Pelosi is a smart parliamentarian who will do as much as can be done to stave off Ryan. At least she has 8 or 9 more votes than she has had for the last two years. Having a new and younger Minority Leader would in my opinion have cost more in strategy and experience than it would have gained in optics. And anybody whom Sanders wants, I will oppose; since I think he cost Hillary this election and his vision for the party is a loser’s game, and his vision for the country will never be a winning one. The more power Sanders gets in the party, the worse we will do.

    Now, as to Schumer, I think that we should have done better. Of course he was second in command to Reid, so just made the often common move up in seniority. And, yes, it would have been less a problem had Hillary won. But thinking about it (and,again, Democrats were not likely to reverse course and go in a different direction), there are not many likely prospects, dynamic young ones. Chris Murphy, perhaps, or Van Hollen, or maybe Klobuchar or Gillebrand, are about all I can think of. Maybe Schumer will surprise us, but I agree that his choice is problematical

  193. I’m not a Nasty fan, but I think putting her out to pasture in this election would have made the Dems even weaker. Better the devil you know than one you don’t.

  194. “Everything mattered: lessons from 2016’s bizarre presidential election”
    WTF just happened?

    “It’s been almost three weeks now. The news cycle has moved on. But I, for one, have not fully processed the news that Donald J. Trump is going to be president.

    Those words still sound like nonsense to me. I can’t shake the sense of surreality. And I know I’m not alone.

    Before we’re entirely swept up in the Trump Outrage of the Day, I want to at least pause, take stock, and attempt to answer a simple question: What the fuck just happened?”



  195. Shadow, thanks much for taking the time to update the vote count. I’m so glad she broke the 65 mil mark!

  196. Thanks socal, that means a lot.

    Trixta, looking at your link, the graphic of votes to Obama in 2008:

    Even though more people voted in 2016 it’s clear that Hillary could have kicked Trump’s ass even more if Bernie supporters didn’t Nadered their votes. They had 7,674,900 votes for candidates that had no chance of winning.

    Obama got 67,499,428 votes in 2008 because young people were not racist.

    Hillary has received 65,001,074 votes so far…with 4,498,354 less votes than Obama…although she will get more votes when counted, but not 2.5 million more to match Obama’s votes.

    She is more qualified, but the operative word is SHE. She was trashed by someone that isn’t qualified nor a decent human being. There is still a reason that no woman has become President in 240 years.


  197. Also we are never gonna stop Trump or the republicans unless it’s done now. Unless the electors wise up and or the recount shows proof of fraud. I don’t want to hear talk about 2018 or 2020. It will not happen. Time to stop playing nice – she f*cking won! And now a few hundred random “electors” decide our fate? Bullshit. It’s not as if these electors are accomplished nobel prize winning folk. She won! Listen to the will of the people

  198. I can’t watch a thing Hillary is in post election. Unless she’s being sworn in and speaking at her inauguration I can’t see her. Too painful. If the electors don’t vote for her I hope they rot in hell.

  199. Hillary now beating Dump by over two and a half million votes, per the counter at Gray-day’s link at 3:00 am December 1st:
    65,152,112 to 62,625,928.

  200. “Even though more people voted in 2016 it’s clear that Hillary could have kicked Trump’s ass even more if Bernie supporters didn’t Nadered their votes. They had 7,674,900 votes for candidates that had no chance of winning.”


    According to that graph (National Popular Vote), third party votes increased by over 5,290,172 million this year from 2012. That made all the difference, Shadow.

    Third Party votes:

    2008 — 2,023,954
    2012 — 2,384.728
    2016 — 7,674,900 (5.7% of popular vote)

  201. To me anything that keeps a Bernie Bro from getting a leadership position is a good thing. They don’t understand the problems with Ellison being DNC head. He would be a shiny new toy for Trump to play with and distract the media.

  202. And now those same self-absorbed Bernie Bros are collaborating to deliver one final “Fuck you” to Hillary:


  203. To recap, to show their disdain and contempt for Trump, some of Hillary’s electors will not vote for her but instead will vote for some non-existant “moderate” Republican. Meanwhile, Trump electors from red states are holding firm with the lone exception of a religious zealot from Texas. Okay then. Got it.

    Please tell me why I should care about this party one second longer. Because I don’t. And while Nancy Pelosi has convinced many that she is so insispensible that there’s no good time for her to step aside, I still think she can’t go soon enough.

    For those of you missing Uppity, I just did my best Uppity impersonation–minus the swearing. Please come back, Uppity! We need you!

  204. WTF, how does a Bernie bot at the age of 19 get to vote in the EC?

    No wonder we are all being screwed!!!! Not only have all of us been on this planet for decades longer, but we are wiser and know what the phuck is going on.

    Wasn’t the EC supposedly made up of the wisest in our nation to make sure we didn’t end up with someone like El Douche?

  205. trixta, on December 1, 2016 at 4:47 AM

    Are you saying that the majority of those independents are not Bernie supporters?

  206. We don’t have many ‘up and coming’ leaders in Congress because the few wins we have had over the last 10 to 15 years have not been star types. Not much in the pipeline. And Reid has hung on too long. I don’t get the interest in Booker or Julian Castro. I say push for Klobuchar or Gillibrand to be strong. I prefer Klobuchar but either would do. And the woman who was Ohio governor? I think. Blocking on name. She appears on Rachel Maddow occasionally. You folks know more names I am sure.
    And some group should work against Bernie henceforward. I am sick of his not even sly remarks anti-Hillary even now when he knows what he did to our country.

  207. Pelosi did not support HRC in 2008, in my opinion, because she has a ‘queen bee’ personality that did not want competition from another strong woman. It was easy for her to support young Barack vs a strong competitor.

    But, at this point, we did not have a viable competitor for minority leader. We are between a rock and a hard place. The only viable leader for our Party and our Country has been taken out by the very elite that Turnipp lied about while he was courting them behind closed doors.

    A government of billionaires.
    I wonder how Medicare and ACA recipients are feeling now.

  208. Here’s the thing, folks. Waiting for a strong challenger to Pelosi as Minority Leader is like waiting for Godot. No one challenges her because they fear repercussions of losing the challenge. She can make their life utter hell. The problem is Pelosi won’t step aside, or even, as I hear, make a plan to transition her position to someone else EVER. She wouldn’t step aside after 2010 midterm disaster, after Obama re-election in 2012, after 2014 midterm disaster, and now after a fascist is sort of “elected” president. If she would just do the right thing, acknowledge that she’s accomplished all she can and is not likely to be Speaker again, many candidates for Leader would come forward, thank her for her service, and provide some much needed vision. Instead, she stays on long past her “sell by” date because she can. The Republicans must find this very funny. And helpful.

  209. I think it was a number of things that led to the loss this time, but I can’t see how we get around it. We are greater in numbers, but with the electoral college giving more vote power to smaller states, the gerrymandering, the removal of thousands of people from the voter rolls, the possibility of outside interference in the election, and outright interference from people like Comey … yadda yadda … what do we do??? How do we get past all that?

    “Clinton’s lead in popular vote passes 2.5 million.

    To some it is just trivia: Hillary Clinton’s popular-vote lead over Mr. Trump reached 2,526,184 — five times Al Gore’s lead over George W. Bush in 2000. At 1.9 percentage points, her lead is now larger than those of 10 presidents, and it is approaching Jimmy Carter’s margin over Gerald Ford in 1976.

    So what?

    Well, her lead is close to what the final polls before Election Day had shown, pointing to a geographic concentration of Democratic voters and a daunting disadvantage in the Electoral College. Do Democratic presidential candidates now need to build a four percentage-point lead to assure victory?”


  210. I have this crazy dream that Hill is biding her time until Jan. 20 and then will lead behind the scenes to help keep those who are sane from losing the will to fight. A fantasy, maybe.

    I really don’t know how she is still standing and am sure she feels wobbly now and maybe for a long time yet. But, she does care for the country and I hope that there are leaders sprinkled around the country who will step up to take some of the load.

    I just don’t know that it can come from anyone currently in Congress – either Senate or Reps.

  211. Republicans want to win, they will do anything to win. Democrats, far too many of them, seach for fantasy purity. The combination is absolutely toxic. We lost in 2000 in just this way, and now in 2016. Inside Republicans simply laugh at the stupidity of the left wing of Democrats. The Russians duped them very easily. They want to be duped. They want to believe in their fantasy of the Great Left Hope. They thought Obama was it, because he gave flowing speeches, and is African-American. Some still think he is, many became disillusioned. The millennials don’t really understand governing, they focus on a few matters which to them connote the whole. Pipeline, free tuition. Any President who ever involved the country in armed conflict is anthema to them. And they just know they are right, and they are going to covince everybody they are, even if they have to elect right-wing Republican after right-wing Republican.

    These people were proud of voting third party. We originally thought that the Johnson vote might be siphoning offTrump voters. But it was mostly Sanders people. Every time we saw a poll, Hillary did better in the two-way race than the four-way race. That was very disconcerting. These Bernie idiots didn’t know two things about Johnson, except marijuana, but it gave them a chance to act and feel superior. “I am an informed and discerniing voter who sees that Trump is awful; but I cannot forigive Hillary for fixing all the state primaries to cheat my wonderful Bernie out of the nomination; plus I just don’t trust her for some rason, so I will proudlly cast my vote for Johnson or Stein, and if Trump wins, well, that wasn’t m fault, it was Hillary’s”. This is the kind of thinking which reasonable five-year olds would know better than, but not these people.

    And to be “fair,” this kind of thinking has persisted for decades. These people, or their forerunners, hated Bill Clinton, hated Gore, hated Kerry, hate Hillary. They aren’t looking for capable leaders, they are looking for a fantasy who can validate their own self-worth. And they would far rather lose in a landslide with McGovern, than win with a Clinton. Because if a Clinton wins, they don’t get to feel superior; but if a Clinton loses, they do. So they are gratified, while the rest of us are in despair. They can’t wait for Bernie to run again in 2020, even if he loses by twenty million votes; because he’s their Bernie, and supporting him validates all their otherwise vapid and superficial lives. I realize that not all of the millennials are that way, but far too many of them are; and that by itself was enough to cost Hillary an easy victory. And yes, some didn’t vote third party, they just didn’t show up to vote at all. Couldn’t be bothered; choices not exciting enough; sale on some really nifty computer software; didn’t want to sully their purity by actually standing in line to vote for HIllary Clinton. Actually, I think that some of them have no hope for human progress, no expectation of fulfilling lives; they see it all as a death spiral; so might as well have a latte, smoke some weed, binge watch one of a million TV shows on the air, and let everyone else deal with the rest of it.

  212. As per this morning:

    Hillary: 65,152,310 popular votes
    Tramp: 62,626,216

    {{{{ 2,526,094 more votes for Our Hillary }}}}

    and counting…

  213. Thanks for the vote count Bellecat.

    ❤ Hillary ❤

  214. I believe Johnson and Stein were paid to run. They had no chance in winning.
    Dumb as Johnson is there is no way he could have won. It was to pull votes away from Hillary.

  215. William

    Well at least Hillary supporters won’t be the only ones hurt by the Burnout’s vote, and Rump supporters that make shit pay like the rest of us will be hurt too.

    The working class and poor will…

    -have their healthcare mutilated or taken away
    -no free college and pot for Burnouts
    -no equal pay for women
    -pervs in T-cabinet will overturn Roe vs Wade
    -no min. wage increased, maybe a T.rump decrease
    -more tax loopholes for the rich and corporations
    -more guns, more packin’
    -more trickle down economics
    -more sexual predators and racial hate crimes
    -Medicare, Social Security and Medical are in very serious trouble now

    -……the list just goes on for decades

    Trump is not going to ruin my country, I will not let the media gloss over the truth and think all is well now, move along, nothing more to see.

    Get over it, HELL NO I WON’T!!!!!!!!

    …and I would bet we will be at war with some new country before 2017 is over.

  216. Good to see you neetabug, thank you for all the hard work you did for Hillary in Ohio.

  217. I agree gray-days. That’s the unfortunate truth.

  218. Shadow (@ 11:43am)

    I think many of those independent voters are Berners.

  219. i.e I think many of those third party voters are Berners.

  220. Great to see you, neetabug.
    I’ve been thinking about you.

  221. Trixta

    I think many of those third party voters are Berners.

    I agree.

  222. Attention…

    Hillary Clinton Campaign: Recount Help Needed

    November 30, 2016 by still4hill

  223. Please read the post above on “Recount help needed”,
    and make it viral

  224. bHillary Clinton catches up by 23,700 votes in Pennsylvania before recount begins
    By Bill Palmer | December 1, 2016 | 0

    According to the article, which quotes USA TODAY, the same is true in Wisconsin and Michigan.

    Is this “Real News”?


  225. Is everyone aware that after more votes in Philadelphia were tallied, Hillary is now down 46,000 votes? 22,000 in Wisconsin before recount, and 10,000 in Michigan. 78,000 total, out of 127 million votes.

    I now believe that a full audit of the votes in these states would show that Hillary won them. There are many provisional ballots which people were forced to cast, because of “operation crosscheck.” I believe that those votes are not being counted. even though the voters were legally entitled to vote. There are also counties in WI and MI which are refusing to hand over their ballots. Republicans have filed objections to the recoutns . Right-wing dominated courts have denied requests for hand counts.

    Why should this be? Because Repulicans know that a full audit will find Hillary won. Because even with only a hand recount, she might win. Because they know that the longer they stall and obfuscate this the closer we are to December 13. It is imperative that someone do something before the clock runs out. The right-wing coup is in the final stages, and all they have to do is stall two more weeks. These recounts should have been filed for two weeks ago. The DOJ should immediately file suit against the counties which are not handing over ballots. The President should step in. We know that in WI. the court demanded that voter IDs be issued by state agencies, but the Republicans who control the DMV and other state offices, simply refused to follow the court’s edict, and never issued them. So is there any person or institution left which will actually do something, or are our officials and institutions just going to succumb to ennui or depression, and let the Republicans take everything over; and then we can read about it and weep, a year or so from now, when it all comes out–like in 2000 and 2004?

  226. Good reporting William…
    Exactly, where is the DOJ?
    out to lunch…

  227. William;
    What about the ACLU ? Seems to me they’d have the contacts and the clout to get the DOJ up off it’s butt.

    PLUS,now CRICKETS when it comes to reporting re: the recounts.

  228. Hillary won the election yall and that’s just the truth of it. The popular vote doesn’t reflect the electoral map & anyone privy to the antics that are going on knows this. Tired that the media is putting up this farse saying Trump won. No. He didn’t. He’s now trying to block the recount efforts. This is the behavior of a guilty, fraudulent & dangerous man who will stop at nothing to get what he wants. And apparently the White House, the DOJ & the media are ready to give it to him on a silver platter. A part of me thinks Obama is loving this bc he’s gonna look like a saint if Dump takes office

  229. Msdsal, that is a good point. I’ve heard nothing from them. As to recounts, apparently you have to have been a candidate to actually request one. I don’t know what power the ACLU has to get the DOJ to do anything. I don’t want to be unfair, but everything I read indicates that Obama didn’t want recounts, doesn’t want anything contested. So if that is true, it’s unlikely that AG Lynch will do it on her own accord.

    The dreadful midterm losses in 2010 and 2014 cost Democrats control of many state legislatures. And as we have learned, if Republicans gain control of any body, they exploit it to the maximum. So there are all these state judges and state agencies who do whatever the Republicans want them to do. The only institution we had was the President and the DOJ. Now it is so late, but I would want there to be immediate filing of emergency lawsuits with the state courts of these states; and then if necessary, filing appeals with the Supreme Court. It’s 4-4, but there’s always a chance. At least try all avenues, even if longshots.

  230. Are any of you watching that schnook at his “rally”? It is infuriating, disgusting, and disheartening. His tone has maintained- the bombast, the indelicacy, the meanness (in every sense of that word)- what a worthless pos. I cannot stand him. My only hope is that the more his insanity is aired, maybe cooler minds will miraculously lead to a different result. What a disaster!

  231. Yes, the rally was disturbing as he was back in his campaign mode and that crowd really was loving it….kinda sad.

  232. HRC, from Joan of Arc to Phoenix.
    “The Magnificent Martyrdom of Hillary Clinton”
    Now she can smile whenever she goddamn pleases.


  233. Lililam, victory tours are what fascists do. And the media are the collaborators, a hundred Leni Reifenstahls now. I wonder if they will show these pictures in classrooms a hundred years from now.

    Obama saying that the results reflected the will of the people, was one of the worst things I have ever heard a Democratic President say. Hillary won by 2.7 million popular votes. She won these battleground states, too, if the votes of legitimate voters who cast ballots, were counted. He does nothing to get them counted. It is obiously more important to him to be gracious, and thus help pave the way for fascism, and the destruction of everything good the 20th century stood for. Obama apparently would rather concede than put a person on the Supreme Court as the Constitution mandated he do. If he had put Garland on the court during the recess, we might have won the recount battle. If he had called for an audit. we would have won. I don’t care if the mean Republicans took up arms. it would have come to that sooner or later, anyway He started out coinciliating with Republicans, and he ended his administration the way he started.

  234. Obama is certainly not a bad person. He cares about the country, and he has done some good things. But history shows that at certain desperate and crucial times, one needs more, that certain courage, foresight, and daring, which is necessary to defeat evil. Those who are the heroes of history had at least some of that, and maybe more.

  235. I fear what you say William is true, and the Dems are too afraid to do anything about it…their biggest fear isn’t winning, it’s possibly the same reason why El Douche is getting away with raping a 13 year old girl.

  236. Holy Crap,Batman. A few minutes ago Rachel Maddow reported that six Dem Senators on,I believe the Intelligence Committee , sent a letter to Obama asking him to declassify info re: foreign interference in our election.

    Yowza!! The game is afoot. Speculation on my part,but methinks maybe Obama knew about this but didn’t want the nation to believe it’s election was compromised..or maybe didn’t want the “stain” on his legacy. Curiouser and curiouser.

    Oh boy.oh boy…exceptional amounts of excrement about to hit the fan.
    Lots of people going to have some ‘splainin to do.

    Do you think I may be overreacting? 🙂

  237. Trixta

    Hillary Clinton has been through the cleansing fire. Let’s all prepare ourselves to behold the phoenix that emerges.

    That was beautiful and uplifting, thank you for posting it. I have been thinking similar things Hillary will do now, that she is ‘free’ but never had such glorious thoughts as this writer. The Rethugs will have to find someone else to hate, she is ours.

    We still have her to inspire us, to let us know we can all stand together.
    I am proud to have held her hand and voted for her three times, and fought and still fight for her.

    She is my hero.

    ❤ Hillary ❤

  238. Msdsal

    We have got to get a hold of that video or a news article to see the details.

    I am off to do a google hunt…

  239. Uppity, your move, my friend!

  240. I don’t think you are overreacting, msdsal, but I do not think Obama will do a thing about it. I think the only way anything may come of any of this is if the entire democratic congress have a series of constant media covered speeches delineating whatever is found to have happened by Russia. The effort and effect must be overwhelming, like a national emergency. The information must also directly implicate trump to be complicit. I don’t mean to be fatalistic, but I wish I could see a more efficacious savior out there. It is a mess.

  241. Shadowfax..may your hunt be blessed w/results.

  242. This is just too good to not post the entire article.

    All of the Democratic and Democratic-aligned members of the Senate intelligence committee have hinted that significant information about Russian interference in the US presidential election remains secret and ought to be declassified.

    The eight senators, including the incoming ranking member Mark Warner of Virginia, wrote to Barack Obama to request he declassify relevant intelligence on the election. They did not directly accuse the Russian government or President-elect Donald Trump, a Republican, of wrongdoing in the letter.

    “We believe there is additional information concerning the Russian government and the US election that should be declassified and released to the public. We are conveying specifics through classified channels,” wrote Warner and his colleagues Ron Wyden of Oregon, Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Barbara Mikulski of Maryland and independent Angus King of Maine.

    Jack Reed of Rhode Island, an honorary and non-voting member of the committee due to his seat as ranking member of the Senate armed services committee, also signed the letter, which was dated Tuesday and publicly released on Wednesday. No Republican joined the declassification call.

    The outgoing ranking Democrat, Dianne Feinstein of California, signed the classified version of the letter sent to Obama.

    Neither the terse letter nor discussions with sources on Capitol Hill detailed the particular intelligence concerning the Russians, its strength or its impact on the outcome of the election. Thus far, no credible evidence of vote fraud or electoral malfeasance exists, despite an evidence-free claim from Trump himself.

    A spokesman for Wyden, Keith Chu, said the senator believed the intelligence needed to be declassified “immediately”, as it was in the “national interest that the American public should see it”.

    It is understood this is the first declassification request by eight senators in at least twelve years.

    On 7 October, the US director of national intelligence and the secretary of homeland security took the rare step of directly accusing Russia’s “senior-most” officials of ordering the breach of the Democratic National Committee’s digital networks. Director James Clapper and Secretary Jeh Johnson accused the Russians of attempting to “interfere” in the US election, something the Obama administration had previously suggested but did not allege publicly.

    The FBI has acknowledged investigating such interference, but has reportedly not established any link to Trump or his campaign. Two US officials have told the Guardian that the FBI was reluctant to sign off on Clapper and Johnson’s public allegation.

    Yet Harry Reid, the outgoing Democratic Senate leader, asserted without evidence in October that the FBI director, James Comey, “possess[es] explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisers, and the Russian government”.

    Unusually for any presidential nominee, and particularly for a Republican, Trump has exhibited a warmth toward the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, that has prompted a widespread expectation Trump will tilt US foreign policy toward Russia. Trump and Putin spoke soon after Trump’s electoral victory in a phone call heralded by the Kremlin.

    There was no immediate comment from the White House or Clapper’s office as to whether Obama would order the declassification or whether the intelligence agencies even support such a move.

  243. Msdsal

    Good job bringing this headline to us, this could be damn BIGly.

  244. Come on,Lililam..it’s the Holler Days..the season for unreasonable hope and faith. This is a story too juicy for the media to ignore and if there’s one thing that will draw a nation together;it’s an attack from the outside.
    I have a feeling that people were just holding back to see if Trump was going to be the least bit competent or surround himself w/good folk..that’s been blown out of the water.They must’ve felt that the nation was in danger of being taken over by fascists and they finally grew a spine.

    Some days you just gots to believe. Maybe we still have a savior out there..now what was her name again?

    ( OK,I’m well aware that I’m grasping @ straws but,hey,everyone gets a few of these in life..if it helps you get through the day)

  245. http://www.reid.senate.gov/press_releases/2016-10-30-in-letter-reid-says-comey-may-have-broken-the-law#.WEDupH1gj8k

    In my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisors, and the Russian government – a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Trump praises at every opportunity. The public has a right to know this information. I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public. There is no danger to American interests from releasing it. And yet, you continue to resist calls to inform the public of this critical information.

    Reid asked Comey to release that information but Obama didn’t lift a finger and we know why (see Joy Reid’s tweet above).

  246. Shadow:
    Great reporting…Thanks!

  247. Oh! Obama…what do you have in you hands that you hide….???

  248. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/29/us/politics/document-Reid-Letter-to-Comey.html

    This is dated August. Why didn’t the DoJ do anything about this? Well, Joy Reid’s tweet above :

    White House avoided Russian intereference talk so as not to tilt the election.

    WH didn’t want to tilt the election. Read it and weep.

    Shadow, that letter asking for declass by the 7 senators is kind of old news and my bet is Obama won’t do anything.

  249. bellecat, Obama will not lift his little finger to do anything. His time was to do something was before the election in August.

  250. It’s about freakin’ time.

    More shit hit the fan….


    DOJ Complaint Filed Against FBI Director James Comey For Interfering In Presidential Election

    A complaint has been filed against FBI Director James Comey with Department of Justice Office of Professional Responsibility that accuses him of interfering in a presidential election.

    A complaint has been filed against FBI Director James Comey with Department of Justice Office of Professional Responsibility that accuses him of interfering in a presidential election.

    The Democratic Coalition Against Trump released a statement announcing their complaint:

    The Democratic Coalition Against Trump filed a complaint with the Department of Justice Office of Professional Responsibility on Friday against FBI Director James Comey for interfering in the Presidential election, following the FBI’s decision to open up an investigation into Secretary Clinton’s emails this close to Election Day. Federal employees are forbidden from participating in political activities under the Hatch Act.

    “It is absolutely absurd that FBI Director Comey would support Donald Trump like this with only 11 days to go before the election,” said Scott Dworkin, Senior Advisor to the Democratic Coalition Against Trump. “It is an obvious attack from a lifelong Republican who used to serve in the Bush White House, just to undermine her campaign. Comey needs to focus on stopping terrorists and protecting America, not investigating our soon to be President-Elect Hillary Clinton.”

    Outrage is growing over Comey’s actions as details about the FBI investigation have revealed that it has nothing to do with Clinton, her emails, or her server.

    Director Comey’s motives for sending the letter 11 days before a presidential election have been questioned by both Republicans and Democrats.

    If Comey’s actions were politically motivated, he would be in violation of the Hatch Act.

    What Republicans initially viewed as a new hope in the presidential election has quickly been exposed as a desperately political ploy.

    The American people deserve a full explanation from Director Comey, because the letter that was released today raises more questions than answers.


  251. pm317-
    This letter isn’t old news,it was sent Tuesday and released to the public yesterday.Senators wouldn’t have released this publicly if they hadn’t decided they needed to force Obama’s hand.

    Shadowfax..dang you’re good at finding stuff and fast,too!

  252. Damn, it’s good to see you PM.

  253. A Grand Haven, Michigan man who worked on the Michigan Trump campaign was found guilty on ten counts of election fraud Wednesday for forging signatures on petition forms in 2012.
    “Donald Trump has made claim after claim calling the integrity of the election into question, but his Michigan campaign had no problem hiring a staff member facing election law charges.”


  254. Donald Trump is pulling out all of the stops and filing objections to the recount in Michigan.

    The Michigan Secretary of State has announced that representatives of Donald J. Trump have filed an objection to the Michigan recount:

    The Michigan Bureau of Elections today received an objection from representatives of Donald J. Trump regarding the presidential election recount that was filed yesterday by Green Party nominee Jill Stein.

    Under Michigan law, the recount is halted when the Board of State Canvassers resolves the objection. The board, which by law must resolve the complaint within five days, is scheduled to consider resolution of the objection tomorrow, Dec. 2. If the objection is not adopted by the board, the recount can commence after the second business day following the board’s decision. If the board adopts the objection, the recount would be ended.

    A copy of the objection is available online.

    Because the objection was received, the recount activity that was scheduled to begin on Friday in Ingham and Oakland counties, and over the weekend in other counties has been postponed.

    The Trump camp listed three objections. First, that Jill Stein wasn’t aggrieved by the election results. Second, the recount can’t happen because it would prevent Michigan’s electoral college votes from being counted, and third, the Trump team claims that Stein’s application wasn’t properly signed and sworn.

    All three of these objections are pretty weak, and they suggest that Trump is trying to get the recount in Michigan stopped on a technicality. Trump leads in Michigan by a little more than 10,000 votes. It is possible that he could lose the state on a recount.

    Trump’s objection is also an indication that the recount is making Republicans nervous.

    The odds of the election result being reversed by recounts in three states are slim, but if even one state flips to Clinton in the recount, it will further damage the perception of Trump’s election win. Trump is already going to lose the popular vote by at least 2.5 million votes. If he lost Michigan and a second state, he would be viewed as a president who skated into office by the skin of his teeth on the basis of the electoral college with no mandate to govern at all.

    The integrity of the electoral process is at stake, which is why the recount must move forward, and Trump’s bid to stop the recount will only serve to fuel voter doubts about the result of 2016’s presidential election.


    ———–Wouldn’t it be damn nice is our media reported the real news to us so we don’t have to hunt around the internet to find it our self………….

  255. I saw that letter tweeted at least two days ago. Keep up, will ya…

    Shadow, I am in a strange mood. Let the fuckers who voted for Trump (that Conway should burn in hell) reap what they sowed and go to hell. Hillary didn’t have the WH behind her; she had FBI, Media, and every other cockroach and sewer rat gnawing at her body parts but she still got the majority popular vote. Where does that leave her and us? I am sick and tired of thinking about this injustice and mind you, it started in 2008 and what the hell did we get for replacing her with Obama then — Fascism now? Once they start mucking around with the system, it misbehaves and does weird and unpredictable things –expect that. All the minorities and immigrants, those who have done well should gain confidence from what they have done right all along and keep doing right and take care of their own. I will apply that to my own life and I am just going to go on with my life. If I come across a fucking Trump voter, I am not afraid, you know why? Because I probably take care of him and his welfare check buddies or subsidize his life to a large extent. He is a dumb fucking moocher loser.

  256. Remember when the FBI was looking at Manafort in relation to his Russian ties? Or they were pretending to look into it. Now this:

    x-posted on SkyDancing

  257. Oh, one more thing, the Buffoon’s lead in PA went down by 25K. 25K?!!! Have you heard of such a thing in any other election? Why do you think he and his sewer rats are putting up such a fight in MI? the lead there is down to less than 10K.

  258. Yes, NW Luna, see how Maggie the she-devil at NYT, slipped that little detail in a tweet for us. Wi and Mi, hmmm wonder why that was so important? I think the Buffoon made a mad dash to all the states in the final day or two so as not to give the impression of ‘winning’ a state without being seen as not having done the work. These mfers are evil.

  259. Yeah PM, I haven’t met one person where I work or live that is happy since Nov 8th.

  260. This is the Buffoon’s base; btw, that older woman in glasses and another are former NH State Reps. We can’t compete with these fools to negate fake news and spread truth. It requires some amount of intelligence. It is just so very sad to see that there are that many of them.

  261. The President swears to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Uniited States of America. If the President has explosive evidence that a foreign power is interfering with the American presidential election, the President is supposed to alert the American people to this, not hide it in order to not be accused of “tilting the election.” The election was tilted by the Russian interference.

    Not telling the populace and the world about this, meant that the Russian interference was allowed to achieve its goal, which was the election of a fascist white nationalist who is either in league with, or in bondage to, Russia.The President is responsible for defending the American people from a de facto takeover by a foreign power, not absurdly trying to avoid personal criticism by keeping it a secret until it is too late. This, at least to me, is beyond wrong, it is frankly a violation of the oath of office, not that anyone will call him on it. The country was handed over to a fascist, because Obama didn’t want anybody to complain that revealing U.S. intelligence as to interference, might have seemed partisan? And then he says that the election results reflected the will of the people; and then doesn’t want any recounts?

  262. pm, yes, saw those #s for PA.

    Nothing to see here, folks, move right along…..

    I wasn’t really convinced there’d be much difference in a recount but thought it was a good idea for verification. Now, with #tRump contesting the recount, I think there’s got to be something there. If the current results are legit, what’s he got to worry about?

  263. I am mindblown that Obama could do something so horrible, so contrary to his duty. wtf could have been his motive? Was he out campaigning for Hillary and secretly plotting for her to lose?

    And that CNN clip just posted by pm…My God! What blooming idiots!

  264. @ Luna: Word.

  265. As for Obama’s spinelessness: “We told you so!”

  266. Well as mindblown as we all are, think of how Hillary must feel.

  267. William, it doesn’t matter if Obama is a nice guy… he’s not stepping up to the plate on some major things. And to find out they withheld info on Russia so as to not tip the election? Wow f-ing unreal! And not wanting Hillary to be a part of the recount/audit effort is a shitty thing to do.

  268. Annie, I think that he is preternaturally afraid of being criticized for partisanship. That is why he wouldn’t appoint Garland in the recess; that is why he reappointed Comey. He is absolutely wedded to his conception of himself as a transcendent figure who is not partisan. Not disclosing the Russian interference was another decision to avoid having the Republicans and the media questioning him. Just let it go, and hope that Hillary wins. That is not what a courageous President should ever do. I once read that Obama liked to play poker, and when he made a big bet, people should get out of the pot. I think he only plays when it is a sure thing. Having to release that information, and then have all sorts of questions raised, is not the kind of scene he likes. He will avoid that kind of confrontation at almost any cost. Truman, for all his flaws, would have released infomation like that immediately. So would Reagan have done, probably in a national nighttime address to the nation. Obama let it go, and apparently got a fascist elected president for his non efforts.

  269. socalannie, on December 2, 2016 at 1:28 AM said:

    In 2008, he was dragged across the finish line by a party that purely hated women’s equality. In 2016, even though she did the only thing she could to have any chance of winning, elevated his completely mediocre record as a “legacy”, he was still apprehensive, with good reason, that this modest, accomplished, committed civil servant would outshine him.

    That’s his legacy: a woman would be a better president that me? Not fkin likely! Hello, President Trump!

  270. Meanwhile, here in NC, we’re having it played out on the ground, in real time, what the “First Black President’s” lack of commitment to American values costs this country: yet another case has made it to an evenly divided Supreme court to contest the 1866 legislature’s division of voting populations here. Janet Reno would’ve slammed their asses nine ways to Sunday. Obama’s Justice Department? Not so much.

    That recess appointment that this case could have ended up in? 5 to 4. But with Trump’s pick? Not a chance. Oh, but Obama wouldn’t want to seem *partisan*. In the face of the most overt revocation of the Voting Rights Act in this or the last century.

    But then he was only half black, wasn’t he now.

  271. Well, we all knew Obama was a coward. We tried to tell everybody. We all saw this happening in 2008. I am beginning to think there was something fishy going on the way the GOP is acting. Even if the vote count doesn’t change enough to flip the election there is probably going to be a ton of election fraud exposed.

  272. Sometimes I think the media’s lack of coverage on the most important and sometimes more arcane points of news is not only an appeal to the lowest common denominator (and this is sad, as there are many intelligent and well meaning people who are too distracted to “search” for the news), but the old adage that the networks are in with Wall Street and don’t wish to rock the boat and compromise ad revenues during the holiday season. Obama likely shares this superficiality just because it fits with his persona.

  273. More for you below (click on the tweet to read the thread) for Luna’s tweet (NW Luna, on December 2, 2016 at 12:34 AM said: ) — some are saying in the replies what I said that Manafort alerted Trump to make stops at WI and MI in the finals days so it would look ‘natural’ when he won them. This is a clusterfuck and we are all asked to suck it up. It was a clusterfuck in 2008 and we were all asked to suck it up. But we the Hillary people have always been on the right. Injustice sucks.

  274. William and everybody, I commented on Obama’s apparent failure to protect our national sovereignty by not protecting the integrity of our election last week. And that was before I knew about him keeping important info classified.

    The McFaul referred to in Joy Reid’s tweet was Obama’s ambassador to Russia while Hillary was SOS. Michael McFaul. So he is not some weak source. I think he now runs a think tank at Stanford. He knows what he is saying. And Joy Reid is a strong Obama supporter, but even she sounds shocked.

    Then there is the way votes keep appearing and disappearing in those three key states, which happen to be the ones Manafort with his deep Russian ties advised Trump to focus on in the closing days. Trump is now objecting to a recount after charging wide spread voter fraud. It all sure looks suspicious. The problem is proving anything at this point. As I understand it, really skilled hackers can easily cover their tracks.

    What ever happens, I just feel that Hillary is my president, in spite of having to fight the Russians and her own government as well as her opponent to get 65 million votes.

  275. Welcome back, pm! You’re an important resource for good links. And you give a different perspective as an immigrant.

  276. Thank you, Brassy! and thank you for this, lest I be accused of hearsay, 😉

    The McFaul referred to in Joy Reid’s tweet was Obama’s ambassador to Russia while Hillary was SOS. Michael McFaul. So he is not some weak source.

    Yep, as an immigrant, I have a very different perspective of this country, its constitution, its three branches of government and how it developed democracy (yea, yeah, republic), which is not that much different from other immigrants who have chosen to make this their home. We seem to understand the value of it more than some half of the people who voted in this election for the buffoon. I come from a country where there is rampant corruption and politicians are hooligans (goondas) who threaten and loot. I was so happy to escape all that and I still remember my discussion with my siblings and extended family in the early 90s on figuring this country out and marveling at it. That innocence is lost forever since at least the 2000 election.

  277. I see Trump camp is trying to stop the Michigan vote count.
    Something is fishy.

  278. I also appreciate all of you that bring us links to the real news or join in with comments. Honestly, I try to listen to CNN on the radio to work and back home, but it doesn’t cover any of the real news, just crap about t.Rump…and I never hear more than about 15 seconds and I have to turn it off because I start screaming in my car in the middle of traffic.

    We all have different sources for information, twitter, blogs, news sites…and we all have different amounts of time we can or choose to spend digging up what is really going on in this election.

    I know we are all at wits end, to say we are shocked, disappointed, angry, or sad, is just the tip of the iceberg for most of us. Most of us have been angry since 2008 and to see Hillary win the popular vote, and all the polls didn’t forecast the EC win, puts us in a phucking rage.

    Something stinks to high Heaven, and anyone, including Obama had better duck and hide because we are all comin’ to get ya!

  279. Okay, looks like Michigan is ground zero…will Hillary’s team jump in or will she back off and say she won’t fight this????


    Michigan’s attorney general has filed a lawsuit to stop a recount of the presidential election results requested by Green Party nominee Jill Stein, his office announced on Friday.

    “Michigan voters rejected Stein’s candidacy by massive margins but her refusal to accept that state-verified result poses an expensive and risky threat to hard-working taxpayers and abuses the intent of Michigan law,” Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette, a Republican, said. “We have asked the court to end the recount which Stein is pursuing in violation of Michigan laws that protect the integrity of our elections. It is inexcusable for Stein to put Michigan voters at risk of paying millions and potentially losing their voice in the Electoral College in the process.”

    Schuette’s lawsuit, filed on behalf of the state, asks the Michigan Board of Canvassers to reject Stein’s recount request on the grounds that Stein has acknowledged she has no evidence that fraud or widespread errors were committed. He also filed an emergency motion with the state Supreme Court to skip the Court of Appeals for immediate consideration.

    “Jill Stein received fewer than 52,000 of the more than 4.7 million votes cast in Michigan’s election for President, yet she now alleges that she is an ‘aggrieved’ candidate and demands a recount that has no possibility of changing the result of that election,” the lawsuit states. “Although Stein had the ability to request a recount from the moment the polls closed on November 9, 2016, she waited an additional three weeks — until the last possible minute under Michigan law — to do so. And she demanded a hand recount, a process that cannot possibly be completed in time for Michigan to guarantee that its votes will be counted in the Electoral College, and a process that will cost Michigan taxpayers millions of dollars.”

    Indeed, Stein filed a petition with the Board of Canvassers on Wednesday, requesting a manual hand recount of every vote, an effort that was expected to begin today. Her campaign paid the nearly $1 million filing fee in full.

    The suit refers to her request as “dilatory and frivolous,” and Schuette’s office argues Stein’s campaign will pay less than $800,000 for the recount, leaving taxpayers to cover the remainder of a bottom line that could balloon to $5 million.

    Stein has filed similar recount requests in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, raising more than $6 million in a matter of days to fund the endeavor and taking advantage of opportunities to get into the national spotlight with interviews with Vanity Fair and TV networks, in addition to shows like “The View” and Bloomberg’s “With All Due Respect.”

    In an op-ed published Thursday in USA Today, Stein argued, “in the age of computerized voting machines and unprecedented corporate influence in our elections, our electoral system is under increasing threat.”

    Even so, she explained that her aim isn’t to change the election results but rather “ensure the integrity and accuracy of the vote.”

    “All Americans, regardless of party, deserve to know that this and every election is fair and that the vote is verified,” she wrote.

    President-elect Donald Trump and his transition team have trashed Stein’s recount effort as a frivolous fundraising scheme. But the Green Party nominee returned fire Thursday, insisting the recount — specifically in Michigan — “will go forward.”

    “The Michigan Board of State Canvassers and Director of Elections has been a model of professionalism in moving this recount forward in an efficient, transparent manner,” she said in a statement. “Yet the Trump campaign’s cynical efforts to delay the recount and create unnecessary costs for taxpayers are shameful and outrageous.”

    “The true costs of this recount are the result of elected leaders who have refused to invest in a 21st Century voting system and powerful politicians who are putting up obstacles in an effort to prolong, undermine and stop this recount,” she continued.

    “But as the overwhelming grassroots demand shows – close to $7 million raised by nearly 150,000 people – Americans are hungry for a voting system they can trust, and they won’t let these obstacles get in their way.”

    Trump won the state with 2,279,543 votes (47.5 percent), according to the results certified on Nov. 28 — 10,704 more than Hillary Clinton’s 2,268,839 (47.3 percent). Stein received just 51,463 votes (1.1 percent).


  280. Trump team moves to block Pennsylvania recount

    Attorneys for President-elect Donald Trump have moved to block the vote recount in Pennsylvania, adding to complaints filed to stop similar proceedings in Michigan and Wisconsin.


  281. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors recently passed a resolution, introduced by Board President London Breed, in response to the election of Donald Trump. The resolution reads as follows:

    WHEREAS, On November 8, 2016, Donald Trump was elected to become the 45th President of the United States; now, therefore, be it [My comment- unless it’s hopefully overturned]

    RESOLVED, That no matter the threats made by President-elect Trump, San Francisco will remain a Sanctuary City. We will not turn our back on the men and women from other countries who help make this city great, and who represent over one third of our population. This is the Golden Gate—we build bridges, not walls; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That we will never back down on women’s rights, whether in healthcare, the workplace, or any other area threatened by a man who treats women as obstacles to be demeaned or objects to be assaulted. And just as important, we will ensure our young girls grow up with role models who show them they can be or do anything; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That there will be no conversion therapy, no withdrawal of rights in San Francisco. We began hosting gay weddings twelve years ago, and we are not stopping now. And to all the LGBTQ people all over the country who feel scared, bullied, or alone: You matter. You are seen; you are loved; and San Francisco will never stop fighting for you; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That we still believe in this nation’s founding principle of religious freedom. We do not ban people for their faith. And the only lists we keep are on invitations to come pray together; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That Black Lives Matter in San Francisco, even if they may not in the White House. And guided by President Obama’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing, we will continue reforming our police department and rebuilding trust between police and communities of color so all citizens feel safe in their neighborhoods; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That climate change is not a hoax, or a plot by the Chinese. In this city, surrounded by water on three sides, science matters. And we will continue our work on CleanPower, Zero Waste, and everything else we are doing to protect future generations; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That we have been providing universal health care in this city for nearly a decade, and if the new administration follows through on its callous promise to revoke health insurance from 20 million people, San Franciscans will be protected; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That we are the birthplace of the United Nations, a city made stronger by the thousands of international visitors we welcome every day. We will remain committed to internationalism and to our friends and allies around the world—whether the administration in Washington is or not; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That San Francisco will remain a Transit First city and will continue building Muni and BART systems we can all rely upon, whether this administration follows through on its platform to eliminate federal transit funding or not; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That California is the sixth largest economy in the world. The Bay Area is the innovation capital of the country. We will not be bullied by threats to revoke our federal funding, nor will we sacrifice our values or members of our community for your dollar; and, be it

    FURTHER RESOLVED, That we condemn all hate crimes and hate speech perpetrated in this election’s wake. That although the United States will soon have a President who has demonstrated a lack of respect for the values we hold in the highest regard in San Francisco, it cannot change who we are, and it will never change our values. We argue, we campaign, we debate vigorously within San Francisco, but on these points we are 100 percent united. We will fight discrimination and recklessness in all its forms. We are one City. And we will move forward together.

  282. I am so fortunate to live in CA, despite the high financial cost.

  283. Hey, pm! Good to see you’re back.

  284. The McFaul story is in my opinion, THE story of the century, at least. An American President, whose Intelligence agencies informed him of an unprecedented and frightening effort by Russia to hijack the presidential election, did not release this information to the public, because he didn’t want to be seen as partisan. I cannot even begin to fathom this. It is like one of those zombie movies where one of the humans sees where the zombies are trying to break in, and doesn’t tell the rest of the people, because he thinks it might upset them,or he will be criticized by the zombies.

    And now we’re looking at the entirely predictable way in which the Republicans are trying to stop or just delay the recounts. Because of course they might lose them. The President has nothing to say about this, of course, because ne never wanted the recounts in the first place. Too messy, might cause people to lose faith in the system. Yes, we do not want people losing faith in the system, even though we are rapidly heading for a fascist state where there is no free press, and the fradulent president-elect takes a Hitlerian victory tour. And where a substantial majority of voters who voted against him, will see their Medicare, Social Security, and civil rights, taken away by the minority candidate. But that is okay, that won’t cause people to lose faith in democracy; not like telling the people about the Russian corruption of the election, or the fraudulent vote counts. It is wonderful that Obama makes these decisions about democracy for everyone.

    In the state of Michigan, they are trying to rush through a bill in their legislature’s lame-duck session, which would even further suppress voting rights. The bill will state that anyone who comes to vote, and who has forgotten or mislaid or doesn’t have his or her ID, will not be able to cast a vote. Just in case the populace of Michigan might not think that is fair, they added a special provision that this law cannot be later overturned by a state popular referendum; thus locking in their disenfranchisement of the people. Cause anyone to lose faith in the process? Anyone think that we are not witnessing pure and unadulterated evil from this singleminded zombie-like Republican Party? Does President Obama have any idea what to do about it, now that he gave up his opportunity to insure Hillary’s election, by informing the American people that there was strong and credible evidence of the Russians trying to take over the country through getting their thoroughly corrupt puppet elected?

  285. If recounts don’t go forward in all 3 states I think it’s highly suspect. We all know Hillary won. You don’t win the popular vote by that much and lose democratic blue wall swing states. It doesn’t happen. She won MI, WI, PA, FL and maybe NC & AZ. The data is there. MI attorney general is an absolute ass. The recount was already paid for through private donation what a POS

  286. birdgal, on December 2, 2016 at 1:49 PM

    I agree. At least we get a lot for the high cost of living and it’s beauty.

  287. And how much did this cost…these people don’t look serious about counting.

    WI livestream vote count, 2nd day.

    Wisconsin Recount -Day 2 – St. Croix County

  288. Petition to reverse US election result and stop Donald Trump being President becomes most popular in history
    It has now been signed by 4.6 million people


  289. Why attorney general interferes with a candidate’s right to audit and recount an election specially if candidate is paying for???

    Are they breaking constitutional and/or other laws?

  290. Shadow, Hillary’s life from student to public servant has been nothing but heroic. She will be known as the People’s President and more when all is said and done.

  291. Trixta, well she will be by more than 65 million of us.

  292. It got little mention over the past couple days, but Trump has financial investments in Carrier’s parent company https://t.co/bKx3ltrTDi— Sam Stein (@samsteinhp) December 2, 2016


  293. Ack! Sorry about the above post. Mods please delete it.

  294. Katy Perry talks about receiving the UNICEF award from Hillary and how this past year has changed her. Worth a read.


    Slowly, I am coming down from the beautiful cloud that was Tuesday night's @UNICEF Snowflake Ball. First and foremost, I am incredibly grateful to have received the Audrey Hepburn Humanitarian Award from my hero @HillaryClinton. This award will be a constant reminder to get out of my bubble and back into the field to shine a light on issues that matter most, especially to illuminate the plight of vulnerable children who are living without basic human needs and rights. This honor is a starting line, not a finish line, for me, and I am excited for where my new ambition and purpose leads me! I was profoundly moved and thoroughly surprised when Hillary showed up to give me this award. I broke down and wept watching her take the stage. The last time I was in NYC was for Election Night. I left covered in a blanket of sadness and despair because for me, and I imagine others, the results triggered a lot of dormant fears and emotions to the surface. I feared that we were not ever going to see the light of justice or fairness. I felt vulnerable, confused and frightened like a child. From the outside it probably looks as though I've always had a "voice." Truth is, I have never had one like I have found in the past year. I have a found a new voice, a more determined voice. I grew up sheltered, suppressed and kept silent for fear of giving the wrong answer. I would reveal my poor education. Or I was just scared. Hillary helped me see that we're all in this together, no matter where we come from, what color we are, or what status and education we have or don't have. Hillary lit a fire inside of me that burns brighter and brighter every day, and that fire will NEVER be put out. Feelings of despair still comes in waves, but now more than ever I am MOTIVATED to fight against social injustice and to promote equality and kindness as best I know how, through my art and influence. I am continually inspired by her strength and how she continues to rise like the Phoenix she is, every time. It's funny, sometimes people who disagree with me just say, "Shut up and sing." Boy, will I do so in a whole new way… next year. Hell hath no fury like a woman REBORN.

    A post shared by KATY PERRY (@katyperry) on

  295. Okay, so I’ve learned that if you post a link from Instagram the whole thing will post, not just the URL link.

  296. Vote count

    Hillary 65,250,336

    Douche 62,686,062

    Hillary leads by 2,564,274 votes

    CA hasn’t counted 501,074 votes. Don’t know about the rest of the states.

  297. I like your instagram post Trixta.

  298. Did anyone hear Trumps margin of victory is down 0.2% ? If so this is very close and I think a flip to Hillary is possible. I just hope and pray they dig deep and fight for every absentee and thrown out vote they can find! PA lack of paper trail makes things difficult

  299. Meant to say his margin of victory in PA is down to 0.2%if that wasn’t clear. Please Jill Stein and team and volunteers please pull this one off!

  300. Thanks for the Katy Perry Instagram post, trixta. Another person inspired by Hillary. Too bad the media has no idea how inspiring she is.

  301. Meanwhile in NC, the Rethugs are doing, without shame or apology, exactly what they’ve falsely accused Democrats of doing in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

    When accusations against individual voters that Rethugs used to demand a recount were proven false, when even the -Rethug controlled- Durham county board of elections refused the recount, the Republican controlled state board just shrugged, said “What could it hurt to count ballots twice?” and gifted McCrory with a hand-recount of ballots in one of the largest Dem. strongholds, Durham County. On Wednesday, after Cooper had passed the 10,000 vote threshold that should have prevented McCrory from getting a state-funded recount.

    This is how Republicans respond to proven guilt of making false accusations against actual people:

    “We were wrong,” Dallas Woodhouse, executive director of the North Carolina GOP, told me about some of his party’s accusations. But he called it “an unreasonable standard” to demand absolute proof of fraud before leveling a claim against a voter.”


    It’s the weirdest negative of what the Rethugs are doing and saying on a national level, played out on a state level almost step-by-step.

  302. You bet, Shadow and Brassy! Looking forward to Katy’s newfound voice and creativity in her next album. Indeed, “Hell hath no fury like a woman REBORN”!

    Trump voters are just finding out the ugly truth about what’s in store for them under a Trump administration. Don’t know whether to laugh or cry….


  303. Oh, yeah, trixta. Now the Trump voters are spilling their guts all to the press about how they just would not have voted and stayed home if they knew Trump was going to hire the foreclosure king for treasury secretary. What do you say? Hillary tried and tried and tried to tell them. The majority of Americans got Hillary’s message. The rest of them just didn’t want to listen and the rest of us are going to suffer immensely for their stupidity.

  304. At: http://www.hillaryhq.com/

    Trump is Trying to Stop the Recounts. What’s He So Afraid Of?

  305. At: https://still4hill.com/

    Help Hillary Clinton’s Recount Team in Michigan and Wisconsin!

    December 2, 2016 by still4hill

  306. A Tumblr thread called Trumpgrets.

    The buyer’s remorse is already setting in. 😆

  307. Awww, I meant to post that on The Confluence.

    Fixit Fairy, please feel free to remove that post.

  308. Hey, Trumpgretters!

    Bon appetit! 😈

  309. “Clinton allies plot anti-Trump movement”

    ‘We’re going to throw everything at him that he threw at us,’ said one longtime Democratic operative.’


  310. “Clinton allies plot anti-Trump movement”

    Hell yes!!! Mad as Hell and we are not going to shut up and sit down either. We have been angry for 8 years and now we are even more angry that the worst of America thinks they can get away with rotten behavior.

    It’s about damn time Democrats fought for Hillary.

    Obama the appeaser, owes Hillary more than just an apology.

  311. Natalia Munoz writes what a lot of us have been thinking! Go read the whole thing.

    Sen. Bernie Sanders, you divided liberals and made a cottage industry of it: social media bots and trolls, fake news, now a book about how you and your angry followers can ignite a revolution, part 2. Clouded by mean ambition, you traded in your admirable principles by denigrating Hillary Clinton, a longtime public servant with a public record, books and Senate votes that show a stateswoman at work.

    Most of your “revolutionaries” settled lazily on being spoon-fed lies and distortions that national media pop stars served up irresponsibly. You’re still trying to sell Marxism to a country that barely accepts public schools.

    You proclaimed that the Democratic Party primaries were rigged, Hillary was unworthy, and her supporters were confused by “identity politics.” Sen. Sanders, four million more voted for her over you because she is smarter than you, more compassionate and really nice.


  312. Florida recount should be on its way!

    Yesterday a federally registered nonprofit election entity launched a fundraiser to cover the court costs of a lawsuit it intended to file in the name of forcing a statewide recount in the narrowly decided state of Florida. The attorney fees were fully crowdfunded within a matter of hours. And today the attorney in question announced that he has officially filed the lawsuit in question, creating at least some possibility that a Florida recount may happen. ….

    Donald Trump was officially named the winner in Florida, but by a razor thin margin, and only after Hillary Clinton had appeared to bank enough of an early vote lead in the state that it would have been all but mathematically insurmountable for Trump to have come back and won.


  313. What an indictment on the TV Media… do they have self awareness? do they do any self reflection? and “botoxed Riefenstahls” yeah all those women covering Trump going about in bated breath, looking at you Katy Tur and that other chick with wide eyes…Apparently the women assigned to Hillary whined that they would rather be covering the buffoon.

  314. There may be some hope in that the OH rally didn’t have the big crowds.

  315. “Botoxed Riefenstahls” to describe the media. That’s a keeper!

  316. Now the right wingers and Trump supporters are trying to normalize the Buffoon’s fiasco of a telephone call to Taiwan and acting like it was some brilliant maneuver to change status quo. No, no, no! It was ignorance and next time it will be bigger and it will be where angels fear to tread kind of fiasco. This tweet below is the tweet people should be focusing on instead. It is the epitome of ’emperor is naked’ coming from the ’emperor’ himself. He does not realize the seriousness, the awesome responsibility and accountability that follows the job for which he is elected. He is an ignorant bastard but does not want to admit it and learn and because of that even more dangerous.

  317. WRT to the buffoon’s tweet above, somebody should tell him, HE is the US now and learn to shut his fucking mouth about certain things. It is the tweet of a teenager and everybody should worry about it.

  318. Throw this in the face of every Trump supporter and the TV media fuckers when they try to talk about Clinton Foundation in the same vein as the fraud that is Trump Foundation. As usual BC in his brilliance created something that is very successful, the success that the Trump supporters, Republicans, and the buffoon himself can only dream about. But the rightwingers and the Buffoon don’t even dream that, they are fraudsters and thieves who want to loot the state and its people for their own enrichment.

    Oh, I bought Joe Conason’s book “The Man of the World’ on BC and reading it.

  319. The bulk of reporters, TV or otherwise are woefully lacking in so many respects. These people are not even well read. They are not deep nor have any curiosity, intellectual or even the plain variety. They don’t care about fairness or justice and in short, they don’t understand the role and privilege they have been accorded. They are not knowledgeable, they don’t seem to know the history, the arts and the sciences. Especially the TV media, the programs are shallow and lack depth. They don’t understand the issues nor are they interested. A doctor who keeps killing patients is is prosecuted in a court of law; a programmer who writes faulty code to kill a production system is let go mercilessly; a builder who builds structures that collapse have to face consequences; on and on… (I write this in my clunky way but you get the point). So why are these so called journalists still around? They should be laughed out of the predicament they find themselves in and run out of town.

  320. Glad to see you posting again pm.

  321. NW Luna, on December 3, 2016 at 4:13 AM said:

    “Florida recount should be on its way!”

    This is one of the best news since Nov 8…

  322. And Arizona should be audited and recounted too…
    something fishy happened there…when total vote count is unfinished, undefined and contradicting news on the status of the vote count.
    Yet, the Arizona officials called for Tramp…

  323. Must read…

    Wisconsin recount observers discover five vote counting machines with tampered seals
    By Bill Palmer | December 2, 2016 | 0


  324. Do the reporters know what Logan’s Act is? If they don’t frame what the buffoon did in those terms, they are useless. {thanks Ga6thDem}

  325. Here is some homework for the lazy reporters:

  326. Shadowfax, on December 1, 2016 at 11:45 PM said:

    This is just too good to not post the entire article.

    Do you have a link to the article mentioned above?

  327. Increasingly feeling like we have just suffered a stealth coup..maybe designed by the monied,some in the military/FBI ,alt-right and their neo-con buddies; w/an assist from a foreign digital invasion. Trump makes it clear he does not intend to abide by the Constitution or any governing norms.The man is a walking time bomb for either war or impeachment. Toss up which comes first.

    News of a Florida recount very heartening.Probably means they figured they wouldn’t be able to reconstruct the PA voting irregularities due to no paper trail. There is a paper trail in FL and will get Hillary to 270 if flipped. Someone must have some pretty solid data for them to even bother.

    Anyone else have a feeling that there’s a lot going on behind the scenes that might eventually make us all very happy?

  328. PM

    Crowd size for El Douche. When I actually watched the apprentice, Rump’s key lessons of ‘success’ were about optics, the key to anything they did to ‘raise money for charities’.

    The ‘announcement’ that he was running for President, coming down the glass escalator in Trump Tower…looking like the arrival of a new king.

    I saw interviews of some of his supporters in the middle of the campaign at his rallies. One guy boasted that it was his 30th rally so far that he had attended. The guy spoke and looked like one of his typical, poorly educated, white males. He didn’t look like a guy that had enough money to travel to lots of different states on his own dime and hold down a job at the same time.

    I knew then, these big crowd where one of Douche’s scams.

  329. I’m getting that feeling myself Msdsal, but what I’m happy about is the fight that’s going on for the sake of our democracy…

    We won and won big…
    We the people did not concede…

  330. Re: Taiwan call.

    “…but I should not accept a congratulatory call.”


    Reporters said that Trump called Taiwan, named the people in Douche’s circle that set up the call.

  331. NW Luna, on December 3, 2016 at 4:13 AM said:
    “Florida recount should be on its way!”

    I don’t get it. Could just any attorney obtain a recount? How will they say this guy has ‘standing’ or whatever it takes? Maybe I missed something?

  332. Bellecat

    Do you have a link to the article mentioned above?
    It was the link I provided three posts about the article I printed out…


  333. Moon, where are you??????

    Uppity……….I miss you.

  334. Stein still trying to raise more money to fight the recount…

    Needs 2.5 mill to meet the goal for WI, MI and PA…

    I’ve been donating…

  335. Msdsal, I wonder the same thing too.

  336. I miss Upps, Sophie, imust, votinghill…

    We understand you needed a big breath away…

    {{{{{{{{{{{ HUGS }}}}}}}}}}}

  337. Shadow good point.
    The lawsuit was filed to order the recount statewide, let’s see how evolves.

    “Florida state law prohibits any candidate from requesting a recount…”

    “a federally registered nonprofit election entity launched a fundraiser to cover the court costs of a lawsuit it intended to file in the name of forcing a statewide recount in the narrowly decided state of Florida.”

    …”this lawsuit is aimed at getting a judge to order a Florida recount, whether republican state officials want to do it or not….”

    Let’s pray for them to prevail…

  338. I suggest that everyone take a look at the Palmer Report site. There is overt evidence of vote fixing and tampering in Wisconsin, and almost certainly in other states. Apparently the Republicans now simply cheat on a regular basis; and why not, they think, since no one does anything about it? Remember, they don’t care about democracy, they only care about winning. This entire election should be overturned, based on the information uncovered so far. Of course it will not be, thus validating the incredibly audacious cheating that the Republicans have done. I must say that I am disappointed that Hillary and her people did not demand these recounts much earlier, and did not call for an audit. We know that the media would have been outraged, called her bad loser; but the media is corrupt, and in the tank for Trump. Maybe she did not realize the extent of the cheating. I am pretty sure that Hillary actually got more votes in the battleground states, and thus should be president simply via votes, but it will never be uncovered sufficiently. So what kind of country are we now left with, if there is a suppressed and tampered with vote which throws the election to the l osing candidate?

  339. Anyone know who this Bill Palmer is? Over @ RD there was link to his site where he alleged that a Stein WI observer found evidence of seals on four voting machines having been tampered w/. Can anyone verify his legitimacy? Or are we looking @ more Russian fake news?

    Keep feeling like there are little drips and drabs of info leaking out that point toward some folk preparing a “case” to present to the American people that would allow a recount or at least an investigation into the election results. Too many screwy numbers. Maybe the Russian’s hacked the registration roles to collect enough data to determine where best to sneakily skew the results.

    But you’re right bellecat ,we need to keep fighting for nothing less than the legitimacy of our voting system..it’s the bedrock of our democracy,sorry,republic. ( Was conveniently forgetting about the Electoral College;that ancient form of vote counting)

    Praying like crazy for the rescue of this country from a dictatorship;the darkness and evil he brings.

  340. Anyone know who this Bill Palmer is? Over @ RD there was link to his site where he alleged that a Stein WI observer found evidence of seals on four voting machines having been tampered w/. Can anyone verify his legitimacy? Or are we looking @ more Russian fake news>

    Keep feeling like there are little drips and drabs of info leaking out that point toward some folk preparing a “case” to present to the American people that would allow a recount or at least an investigation into the election results. Too many screwy numbers. Maybe the Russian’s hacked the registration roles to collect enough data to determine where best to sneakily skew the results.

    But you’re right bellecat ,we need to keep fighting for nothing less than the legitimacy of our voting system..it’s the bedrock of our democracy,sorry,republic. ( Was conveniently forgetting about the Electoral College;that ancient form of vote counting)

    Praying like crazy for the rescue of this country from a dictatorship;the darkness and evil he brings.

    And William,maybe they ARE doing something behind the scenes we’re not aware of ..none of us knew about the steps Hillary’s people had taken right after the election..so they’re apparently pretty good at keeping things mum.I’m thinking coordinated “bombshell” sometime this week..as they collect evidence from the various recounts. They had to give Trump time to show his hand, he has conveniently demonstrated who he intends to put in power and how incompetent and unsuited for the presidency he is. If the election is to be legally challenged it has to be an airtight case AND the majority of the public has to see it as righteous…that we HAVE been digitally invaded.

  341. Anyone know who this Bill Palmer is? Over @ RD there was link to his site where he alleged that a Stein WI observer found evidence of seals on four voting machines having been tampered w/. Can anyone verify his legitimacy? Or are we looking @ more Russian fake news>

    Keep feeling like there are little drips and drabs of info leaking out that point toward some folk preparing a “case” to present to the American people that would allow a recount or at least an investigation into the election results. Too many screwy numbers. Maybe the Russian’s hacked the registration roles to collect enough data to determine where best to sneakily skew the results.

    But you’re right bellecat ,we need to keep fighting for nothing less than the legitimacy of our voting system..it’s the bedrock of our democracy,sorry,republic. ( Was conveniently forgetting about the Electoral College;that ancient form of vote counting)

    Praying like crazy for the rescue of this country from a dictatorship;the darkness and evil he brings.

    And hang in there,William.Remember when we didn’t think Hillary’s folk were fighting back? I think that maybe they just needed to quietly gather the necessary data so that the American people could get behind questioning the election results. They needed Trump to show his true colors;which he has ,conveniently ,done. I’m looking some kind of “bombshell” revelation sometime this coming week.

  342. Bill Palmer is also the publisher of the Daily News Bin, the site that always and only has positive info about Hillary. Nice as that is sometimes, I always try to find a second source for Palmer’s work.

  343. More info on FL recount effort here:


  344. Apologies for the multiple posts.
    Ancient computer + elderly operator + slow server = rampant postings.

  345. Sophie:
    Good to have you around…
    As you can see we are “the Resistance” against the Dark Orange Force…

  346. Luna:
    Thanks for the link…

  347. Or should I say the Orange Darth Vedor?

  348. Interesting that Trump ranted and raved about the election being rigged and lo and behold, WI, MI, and PA are just too fishy to call and they’re all whining over Stein’s recount! If they have nothing to hide, why are their panties in a twist? Wouldn’t they want to prove that he won fairly? Unless they all believe as we believe–that Trump didn’t win.
    No matter how the recount turns out, between the fishy smell and her overwhelming lead in the popular vote, the Orange Buffoon will never be seen as legitimate by most Americans. He will always be the guy who came in second. He will always be the guy who said it was rigged but refused to concede.

  349. Msdsal. I agree with the stealth coup.

  350. Wm, maybe Hillary is fighting quietly. In the back ground.
    You know the media, they would be all over her plus the orange con man.
    Although she should be out front yelling the election was rigged.
    They need to make sure all the ballot boxes are in.
    They might find some floating in lake Michigan.

  351. My but I’m chatty today..hmmm. Think about this. The Repubs instituted massive voter suppression laws,conducted several congressional investigations into e-mails and Benghazi,spread thousands of false rumors about Hillary’s health,used the FBI to further interfere w/the election ( possibly colluded w/a foreign government’s hacking),repeatedly lied through their teeth about what they were going to do for ( more likely ,to) the American people and got up to who knows what kind of monkey business w/voting machines and STILL, STILL Hillary beat them by a minimum of 2.5 million votes.

    No wonder they’re nervous about a recount..this was their last,best chance to ever win the presidency again w/their shrinking “majority” and the recount shining light on those questionable voting machines.
    I recommend a trip over to Jill Stein’s website..lots of info re: why the recount and why they ,and experts ,felt there were problems w/the counts in WI,MI and PA.

    Sunshine,the ultimate disinfectant.

  352. trixta you beat me.

  353. What????
    I do not understand….because it says the the counting still going on…

  354. The recount effort “continues at the county level where the campaign is pushing for forensic audits of voting machine software,” according to Jordan Brueckner, a spokeswoman for the recount efforts.

  355. Could it be one of those Faux news?

  356. Bellecat, I saw this from a sidebar feed over at Skydancing:


  357. bellecat, the source for the link is Poltico.com which is a reputable site.
    Apparently, the judge ordered a one million dollar bond for the recount, i.e. 500K more than what Stein was told originally. Thus, she’s shifting from a statewide recount of votes to an audit of machines at the county level. Does this mean only certain counties and machines will be looked at? I imagine it means that rather than verifying the number of votes cast, the audit will look at tampering or hacking of machines. Is this better or worse for Hillary? Who knows. The Green Party has been critical of Stein for asking for recounts only, so perhaps she’s changing tactics because of pressure from within the Party.

    In any case, we’ll know more on Monday: “Stein plans to speak at a press conference outside Trump Tower Monday at 10 a.m., according to her statement.”

  358. Thank you Early…

    I knew she filed in behalf of voters according to the law in PA, that was the way it had to be done.
    Now I understand that is bond “money” the court request for the voters to come up with…and the deadline the court gave…by 5pm. and who knows what else the “court” will come up next…

    And the biggest problem in PA is: no paper ballots…
    We are going to have to change that…
    paper “hard copy” talks…
    require throughout…amen.

  359. My response to bellecat about the Politico article did not post.

  360. “For #TheResistance—California will be the center of gravit, and prologue” (12/03/16)

    “In 2016, Hillary Clinton outperformed President Obama’s vote totals in California, not just from 2012 but from 2008. Eight years ago, on the way to his crushing victory for the White House, Barack Obama got 8,274,473 votes in California to John McCain’s just over 5 million. Over half a million ballots still remain to be counted in our state, and Hillary Clinton has already shot past Obama’s totals. She currently stands at 8,577,206 votes to Donald Trump’s pathetic 4.4 million. In other words, our state has provided Hillary Clinton’s entire net popular vote margin and then some. No wonder Trumpistas are whining that California really shouldn’t count, and Trump himself is throwing lying tantrums about our state.

    The nation’s most populous, and now most liberal – not only did Hillary Clinton crush President Pussygrabber by a 2:1 margin here, California has no Republican statewide officeholder, and the 2016 election has given Democrats back two-thirds majorities in both houses of the legislature – state is in no mood for bowing to Donald Trump. The morning after the election, the leaders of California’s Assembly and Senate fired a joint shot across the bow of the incoming Trump administration vowing to protect our values from federal onslaught.”



  361. trixta, on December 3, 2016 at 10:12 PM

    Bravo Trixta!

    Fantastic post and yes, this is how us Californian’s and NY and all the other blue states feel. We need to ban together and not give an inch to El Douche’s plan to destroy our way of life.

    Go forward on Hillary’s plans.

  362. Hillary and Bill need to get a second home in CA so we can share their brilliance with NY while we are still on this planet together.

  363. bellecat, both names are appropriate.

  364. “No, the Pennsylvania recount effort isn’t “over.” Yes, the mainstream media is lying to you.”
    By Bill Palmer | December 3, 2016


  365. Shadow, if Trumpolini even thinks about withholding Fed funds from CA as punishment for kicking his ass at the polls, I’m glad we’re in a position to not only resist, but challenge him at every turn. I hope more states take our lead. (The backlash against Gov Wilson’s nativist antics and Prop 187 has certainly been great and long lasting. We weren’t about to fall for that again in 2016.)

  366. I think WA state will be resisting too, since we are part of the Left Coast. We have a D gov, (at least the 4th in a row) and both our Senators are female and Dems. The State House now has a D majority of women. Seattle’s mayor (who by the way is gay) came out early and said our city would be a sanctuary for immigrants. Trump only got about 30-some % statewide. The east side is pretty red, though.

  367. I hate to say it but I am running out of hope on this recount thing. When I don’t see Hillary making any moves towards it, except to observe if there is one…I don’t think she sees a path to the Oval any more.

  368. Shadowfax,Go to the Palmer Report and read his postings..that will cheer you up!! Even if only half of it is true,it’ll still give you hope.

    Ain’t over until the fat lady sings and those hand counts ARE finding anomalies and will increase the likelihood of a complete hand count in WI.Looks like it’s the high incidence of no votes for president.. the machines maybe didn’t count all the votes..might also be true in MI. Philadelphia already starting a hand recount;if the discrepancy between Hillary and Trump gets down to 0.5% ( about 22,000 more votes) it will automatically trigger a hand recount throughout PA.

    Hope springs eternal!!.

  369. Funny!

    SNL’s “The Hunt for Hill”

  370. I’m just going to tell you all this as someone who live in PA….both the county Philly is in and the county Pittsburgh is in were doing recounts BEFORE Stein showed up.

    Beware a fox in sheep’s clothing.

  371. And since I am in a “reality-check” mode….those on Twitter responding to Trump’s SNL tweets are TOTAL SUCKERS. This is his Twitter game-plan. Do something stupid/illegal/horrendous, tweet about SNL and sweep the stupid/illegal/horrendous to the back-burner. Dems/liberals/leftists fall for this EVERY DAMN TIME…..and so does our media.

  372. One more “reality-check” regarding Stein’s “lead attorney” Robert Fitrakis, for these recounts:

    “Robert currently serves as the co-chair to Ohio Green Party State Central Committee, and is a member of The Green Party Shadow Cabinet.”


  373. Yesterday I had coffee with a friend and neighbor. Actually, she is one of the few neighbors with whom I can discuss the election. Minnesota went for Hillary, but my county was solidly for Trump. However, this friend was telling me about a mutual elderly aquaintance who is having a very bad time since the election and can’t be comforted at all. This! It is truly shocking that so many people are literally psychologically traumatized by this election. Physically ill and frightened. Unfortunately, no matter how many audits or recounts there are, I don’t believe there will be enough evidence to change the results. My friend and I agreed that Hillary probably won the EC too, but it won’t be proven. And can you imagine the terror that would break out if the results were overturned? Civil war. I wish I knew the answer.

  374. Brassy Rebel, count me among the “elderly” who are traumatized and I, for one, will not ‘get over’ this for the remainder of my life. I fear for how this next 4 years will change our country for the very worst worse. Grammar not great but you get my point. We have no courageous leaders in or out of Congress. But, the USA will not be recognizable, in my view, in less than 4 years.
    To make daily life even worse, now I have lost the ability to watch political shows on TV. I can’t stand kellyanne or mike pence and they are all over the Sunday shows today. 22 minutes before Joy Reid and I don’t know how long the corporation will allow her free reign.

  375. Ok, so you all say you “miss” me. So then are you ready for some REALLY tough love as I watch you cling to this year’s “Ulsterman”. Remember him? The white house “Insider” everybody clinged do like he wasn’t feeding you a pile of bullshit? Did you listen to me then? NOPE! How about 2008’s “Hillbuzz” you all flocked to like he was the cat’s ass, who turned on Hillary like a junk yard dog?

    I will tell you who Bill Palmer is. Do you want to know who Bill Palmer is, while you cling to him like he’s an “Insider”? He is the same guy who wrote the Daily News Bin. I blocked him on twitter once I realized that 1) His story headers are catchy. You cannot resist but 2) The story never matches the header and 3) He would sometimes quote people and make dramatic claims with nary a link to a source and 4) Sometimes he uses a source that really doesn’t say what he is implying it says. And you don’t click on that link so what the hell anyways! and 5) You might not notice that some of the links are to himself, referencing other stories on his site.

    But go ahead and act like he’s got the line on the fix. The fix that will not be fixed. He’s giving credence to your incredible belief that the results of this election will change in some dramatic way. It won’t. All he is doing is stoking your pain. I don’t even know if it’s deliberate or not, but it sure is a conduit to play on emotions and false hope.

    I am here to tell you watching you all swoon over your own impending disappointment is very painful for a realist. And I am a realist.

    I see no realists here lately. Not one.

    This recount will change nothing. What part of that do you not understand? I have watched people grasp at straws in 2008. And I am seeing it again and frankly, it makes me sick.

    Is there no logic left here? None? I know you want to hear what you want to hear and there will always be a Bill Palmer to tell you what you want to hear. I won’t tell you what you want to hear. I don’t have delusions. This blog has gone delusional. Therefore I see no reason for me to hang out and participate. That is why I have not been here.

    But go ahead and carry on. Because one thing Democrats do well is organize, get pissed off, take action. Too bad it’s always after all the horses ran from the burning barn.

    The barn has burned. The horses are gone. Again. Rinse and Repeat.

    Next, after Bill Palmer, AKA Daily News Bin disappears ala “Ulsterman” The Insider, leaving the carnage of False Hope behind him, her, whomever, will you be moving onto four years of “Impeachment”? I mean did every democrat not declare G W Bush was going to be Impeached for eight fucking years or not?

    Frankly, I can’t go through watching this any longer. My head hurts from shaking it. I am just amazed at how Hillary people allow this frenzy to happen to themselves again and again.

    Sometime in the future, it might be uncovered that Russia or Trump or somebody tampered with the election on election day. When and if that happens, I have no idea what will come of it and neither do you. But for any people to let life fly by waiting for it is simply a waste of life. We know they tampered with the election before election day, but all the stories of “broken seals” and other juicy tidbits today….are Nothing more than hearsay and rumor. This may come as a shock to you, but Republicans don’t hold nibs on Fake News. Democrats do it too. I had to delete plenty of tweets with false information and graphics in them. It’s just that Republicans are better at Fake News. They’re better at cheating. They’re better at lying. They’re better at making false accusations and continuing with them like the Japanese Water torture. We’ve seen 30 years of it with Hillary. *They are better at all these things. Rarely, they get caught. Ask Dick Nixon. But pretty much, they are all Lee Atwater at heart. And the Democrats are lax as they always watch it happen and do nothing. Till the horses run from the burning barn.

    In any event, carry on with your false hope. But don’t expect me to show up and clean up after your shattered dreams, because I am tired of doing that. So let’s just say you have been warned.

    This recount will confirm what we already know. That Hillary won the popular vote by a landslide. Do not expect December 19 to change a thing. That would REALLY be a delusion.

    I urge you to stop doing this to yourselves. Life is too precious for this.

    *Although Bernie matches them in their odious skills. But then he’s not a Democrat, he’s CPUSA at heart. So it fits. But if you are watching, you can see how easily it is to drive a bulldozer over the Democratic Party. Where I come from that guy would be shown the lobby for his fractious, disgruntled, non-productive behavior. Lucky for him Vermont has kept him ’employed’.

  376. People who could show openly their racist, supremacist attitudes and who were Clinton-haters (never this woman), who were too stupid to make the distinction reading all the fake news (from the TV/NYT too) about Clinton voted for the buffoon. Looking at a group of tweeters from another context, one woman says, she does not like him but voted for him because she didn’t like her (fuck her — people like her should have stayed home). I met a 23 year old who voted third party thinking Clinton was corrupt and morally bankrupt after reading/hearing all the fake news and her brother was a T supporter. I want to scream at those who now are ashamed of their vote but rationalize it by saying she was bad too. No!

    This election was not about economic anxiety. It was about white privilege, theft, foreign incursion, media malpractice, state agency (FBI) intervention, everything that an election should never be.

  377. “It’s just that voters worried about immigration and terrorism preferred Trump by more.”

    replace the word “immigration and terrorism” with xenophobia, white supremacy, racism because these are white people with money who employ those immigrants to work in their houses and on their yards.

    Notice there is no discussion of sexism there, the same men and their women not preferring a woman.

    But they are all a regressive minority and they prevailed which should never have been.

  378. Uppity. Thanks. I am also a realist. That is why my posts are about our possibly doomed future instead of expecting a miracle now. I do believe in cycles of history so have hopes that in a generation or two, the pendulum will swing liberal again. But to what degree after the Turnipp + Republican damage? And with Europe going right wind also…. where is my blankie?!
    We just have to learn how to survive in this new world. And how to resist without all landing in jail.

  379. Maybe the Trump people will sell us their used prepper gear.

  380. Up, that was the conclusion my friend and I reached yesterday–nothing will change, and we have to learn to survive in this new reality. Jill Stein will never get a penny from me for any thing. And Bill Palmer? He ends every breathless post with a request for a donation. Tells you all you need to know about him.

  381. Yes. Recount fixated folks are still at first stage of grief: shock and denial. I’m at number four: depression and reflection. I caught the great Barbra Streisand last night in Fort Lauderdale; she still can sing the hell out a song to tell a story like no other. A huge, longtime Clinton backer, she seemed mostly reflective as well. She wistfully told little girls not to give up on their dreams and opined that blue state and red state Americans need to try to come together and get along. But she really didn’t mention much about the election. Obviously, however, accomplished women her age bracket are especially bitter.

  382. Fuck you, Facebook! It is a flawed application that is tailor-made for propaganda as we saw in this election season of fake news. Easily corruptible just like the electoral college. USA survived the temptation for corruption because people in significant places by and large policed themselves — there was code of conduct, a rule book, a line drawn that was not crossed; there was honor code, calling your opponent a liar was a no no, the word Lie was a no no. All that went out the door this election season: media malpractice, Facebook propaganda, buffoon candidate with absolutely no scruples who was ready to do anything. This is how countries fall.

    That Facebook, misogynistic billionaire is a cog in this wheel. Never trusted that application from its inception.

  383. This is what that Jay Rosen tweet is referring to. So now FB will assess the validity of the content people will share. Good luck with that. I think the correct reaction should be for fair minded smart people to boycott that service altogether and let sewer rats reign like any another right wing conspiracy service. Sometimes, certain things should die and not gracefully.

  384. This election and its results reflect the character of the voters who voted for these people. Look at the audacity and impunity of this sewer rat Flynn who now will be advising the bigger sewer rat that is the buffoon playing the president of this country. NYT is their propaganda arm. Flynn tweeted a tweet linking Clinton with sex crimes with children. That guy now advises the president on national security. People who voted for these people, are they sane? NO.

  385. Well, I do believe that is very important that good people continue to hope and strive to make things better. Evil people, fascists, authoritarians, want people to give up, just accept their lot.l Of all the frightening things in the book “1984,” that may have been the worst; that all but a few people simply had given in, tried to shuffle along through their days, carefully avoiding doing or saying anything that might be found to be a “thought crime” or a “speech crime.”

    I never had much hope for a recount, but I think it was very admirable that people sent money in for it, though it was to the wrong person. I do wish that Hillary and her people had earlier requested a recount or audit. Probably they thought that there were too many states to have to overturn. Maybe they didn’t realize all of the irregularities in the vote. I think that the effort should have been made. Do not go gently into that good night. We have a President who apparently thinks that it is better not to make waves, not to risk criticism, and who thus didn’t tell the people about the attempted takeover of the country by a foreign power, when they might have been able to do something about it. We cannot be like that, and we cannot reward people like that. The best time to stop fascism is at the outset, not after it has become entrenched.

    I can well understand people feeling so despondent and enervated after this campaign and election, that they want to give up; just watch some entertainment shows, take nice walks (until all the public parks are closed), cocoon in. And some of that is necessary and restorative. But if the good peoople do not ultimately fight, then evil wins, permanently. It may be that we have lost the institutions which can help us, and cannot get them back. But we are the majority, and the bitter irony is that the evil people, the minority, have found the mechanisms and collaborators to game the system so as to achieve electoral victories which they propagandize as popular victories. But they are still the minority–unless too many people give up, or identify with the oppressor, as is their ultimate goal. I think that there are things that we can do, even now. One of them is to find a way to start a national fund to pay for voting IDs for those who cannot afford them. If there are going to be these pernicious voter laws, then we have to find a way to have our voters get those IDs, somehow, rather than just throw up our hands and say, well, the bad people now have a permanent voting majority because they have suppressed the vote. There have to be other ideas, as well. And people have to come up with them, as much as they might prefer to just let it all go.

    No government can exist without the consent of the governed, That is even true of tyrannies, though they always try to convince people otherwise. I recently read a very good book by someone I had not heard of, but who was apparently a well regarded novelist, Morley Callaghan. He was a friend and contemporary of Fitzgerald and Hemingway; and his book, “That Summer in Paris,” tells about the summer of 1929 they spent there. A somewhat minor character in the book is a religious person, maybe a priest, who shared the boat voyage over with Callaghan and his wife. The priest loved to talk to them, it was a nice respite from the rather dreary demands of his work. In one conversation, he expressed this thought that every prison should have windows. He felt that every prisoner should at least be afforded some ray of hope that he could escape. He believed that without this ray of hope, the soul dies. We are not prisoners yet, and we of course need to draw upon hope, not only for its own sake, but to bring about the communal energy which might at least possibly lead to a reversal of the course our country is on.

  386. I think focusing on the recount just helps people from focusing on the horror we are all about to experience. Pretty soon we are all going to have to face the horror. There are some positive things though we can do and one of them is to smack the Bernie babies in the face and tell them to wake up and make sure none of their people are made DNC head. Turn your grief into something positive like running for office or joining your local party. There are 39 states with term limited governors that came in on the tea party wave of 2010. Work on getting rid of them.

  387. William, I don’t think I am giving up by acknowledging that the outcome isn’t going to change because of recounts or audits. We need to move past the election itself and accept that this regime WILL take power. Then we can determine the best way to fight it. I believe in fighting; I don’t believe in grasping at straws.

  388. I do think UW makes a valid point about some people who are just trying to take advantage of vulnerable people by stoking false hopes. We need to be aware of this and resist. Not everyone who claims to be anti-Trump is our friend.

  389. If there is a campaign to get voter IDs for everyone, then at least in some people’s mind, it is giving in to the pernicious voter ID laws. However, as a practicality, I agree that there should be a push to get an ID for everyone just like there is a push to register everyone to vote now. But what kind of ID will suffice? The mfers may say at the poll, ‘no, no, this ID won’t do; we want your ID in blood on a piece of paper with a witness that is some right wing sewer rat.’ This is about stripping the dignity of certain section of the populace and therefore, should be fully rejected as undemocratic. But the picture looks pretty bleak.

  390. It would be nice if someone we respect could show a little leadership and respect for those of us who voted for Hillary. Even our President has been absent in attempting to at least show some compassion. Where is that ‘hopey’ stuff he is supposed to believe in?
    As it is, everyone is floundering amongst groups like this. Where the hell are the Dem Senators? Why aren’t some of them, besides Bernie or Elizabeth, talking to the 65 million+?

    Why doesn’t Obama stop gloating long enough to be presidential one more time?

    I am not mentioning Hillary because it would be cruel punishment to expect her to speak up this soon. Speaking of which, cnn had an online poll about wasn’t it time to get over the election and 96% said NO. The female host was shocked at such a response! Shocked! Because it means nothing to the news readers shows their robotic nature.

    And yes, William, this is one of those 100 year events that will take longer than usual to halfway recover from. I understand your logical approach but it really is still too soon, at least for me, to plan logistically. This was a cataclysmic event that won’t be recognized fully for some time to come.

    I admire anyone who can move forward quicker than some of us. I count on those who can do that to lead the way.

  391. Gray-days, yeah I am also surprised at the absence of leadership (maybe it is too soon). But we have this other kind of leadership pouring salt on a gaping wound. Bernie and his ilk should be run out of town.

  392. Upps great to hear from you… {{{{ Hugs }}}}

    As I said: “she’ll be back!”

    I missed you and your “tough love” and yes, your reality check point of view.

    Many of us -though aware of the odds, have decided to fight. We can NOT see the alternative to stay idle and do nothing, while we’ve been slapped and shellacked over and over by the Repos elections tactics.

    It can be perceived as foolish and delusional to allied with former and apparent foes; however, the danger of a government control by white supremacist/xenophobic in our USA is greater than the rational to just watch and be absorbed by fear of this fraudulent outcome.

    i:e; the Allies had to woo-woo Stalin to beat Hitler…of all devils…

    Adjusting to this new world of technologies: internet/social media, etc., that has hijacked journalism and good judgement is something we have to reckon with. Twitter, FB, Insta and all the trendy apps have created a chaotic stage of “Faux news” and issues should be double check.

    It’s understandable that all this frenzy input of “opinions” can give anybody a headache and some should for health reasons, stay away and enjoy the good side of life.

    Take care of that heart of yours that has taking a serious hammering in the past.
    Always love…

  393. BS is literally full of bs. What is the difference between his scapegoating and demonizing everyone on Wall St. and Trump scapegoating and demonizing all immigrants and Muslims? Trump also engaged in a lot of empty anti-Wall St. rhetoric and now stocks his regime with some of the worst “malefactors of great wealth.” Sanders is suggesting Hillary and the Dems didn’t sufficiently demonize the 1%. And he dismisses other forms of inequality. It’s the same warmed over Marxism he always spews. He lost the primary with this simplistic crap and now claims vindication. The first step to fighting Trump is fighting this fool who needs to STFU!

  394. It is a shame that people have to spend energy to fend off this Bernie fucker now when we should be united to deal with the Buffoon.

  395. The comments about Sanders on Watson’s twitter feed are freakin’ TERRIFIC! Lots of Dems want him gone yesterday.

  396. … to deal with the Buffoon he and his supporters helped elect.

  397. Speaking of Voter ID laws and other anecdotes about people not having their IDs (BC, naturalization papers…) handy — this is what my hubs did the week we got our citizenship certificate (is that what it is called?) — he framed it in a regular picture frame (though we don’t hang it on any wall). I wondered then why he would do that but the current affairs put it in perspective and that he had the forethought to think of an easy of preserving it and access to it. Of course, we have traveled all over the world and he has lived and worked in several countries in Europe that I am not surprised he understood the significance of storing it that way but I would not have paid that much care is the point here.

  398. Uppity, I was hoping you’d chime in again. This is your blog after all! I agree that we have to face the reality about the next four years under a Trumpanzee regime. This is why I have also looked for posts dealing with how to resist and move forward in the face of this country’s fascistic and white nationalist turn. I don’t believe the recount will change the “result” of the election. What I do want it to accomplish, however, is this: 1) cast doubt on Trump’s “victory” and slap down his claim to a mandate; 2) expose voting irregularities and shed light on the gutting of voting right protections; and finally, do what the Repubs would have done to Hillary had she won by casting doubt on the election results and her administration. I’d also like to bump up Hillary’s popular vote count just because. I feel it’s up to Hillary supporters to protect her legacy and place in history, especially from the likes of the right wing.

    The EC will soon put a final point on this election in a couple of weeks, and that will be that. But rather than wallow in pain, anger, and helplessness because Hillary is not Potus, I do think there’s merit in resisting, protesting, and generally giving them hell whenever and wherever possible. The recount is part of that protest, imho. But hey, choosing to take a break or tuning out completely over the next four years is tempting and does have its upside. So, to get to my point: if you have suggestions as to what you’d rather have us discussing or if you want to ban references to certain sites (Palmer’s and others) that’s okay too. It’s your blog! I feel bad that you feel you can’t contribute here as of late.

    Uppity, you have a big heart and are very protective of us. From your comments, you don’t want to see us get hurt or feel even more disappointment. Speaking for myself, please don’t feel obligated to carry such a big load. It’s not only exhausting, but too much for anyone to bear. I think we can all lift each other up when need be. But know this, your blog is a sanctuary for us and our many voices, even when we disagree. I just hope it can mean something more positive and productive for you again.

  399. Well, I wonder when the socialist buffoon’s choice for the DNC goes down in flames how he’s going to take that? Probably more passive aggressive whining.

  400. Amen, Trixta! I want the record/history if there even is one, to show exactly what happened. I also want the world to know that the more than half of us who voted for Hillary and a brighter future together, are not going to bow down to the likes of Donald Trump and his merry band of pirates.

    So glad to see Ups, Voting, Sophie and Paulette back (forgive me if I missed anyone). I hope Moon and imust come back too. (Pm, I knew you couldn’t stay away.)

    Ups, we love you, even when you scold, tough love is needed now. IIRC you had prior political experience. Can you school us? I have written to my Congress critters but I doubt that will do much good. If you have concrete, positive, efficacious things we can do in the next four years, especially grey-cell-losing old farts like me, please share.

    I grew up on John Wayne believing that the White Hats will always triumph over the Black Hats. Now I am at sea among Black Hats and Gray Hats, searching desperately for White ones. Clearly, I was and am to some degree still, naïve and possibly delusional! So please, Ups, if you or anyone else here can point us in the right direction to resist and eventually overcome what has been done to our country, please, please do.

    Gray-Days: Loved the results of that CNN poll!

  401. PM I agree with you on your Facebook comments. Facebook has always caused a lot of harm and the sooner it is boycotted the better.

  402. About fighting and leadership – in 2000 Al Gore fought – all the way to the Supreme Court – and lost. Then in 2004 Kerry characterized those who wanted to fight for Ohio as “crying into their tea.” Now in 2016 Hillary is not fighting unless it is initiated by Stein. It seems as though Gore 2000 was IT for Democrats fighting fraud post election. I think that if the repubs were in the same position democrats are in now they would be fighting like pit bulls. But for democrats it is apparently very different – either no fighting and the cheaters win every time OR democrats are going to have to learn to go at these things more aggressively BEFORE an election.

  403. I don’t know, I have mixed feelings about the recount. Like I said yesterday, I have less hope now that Hillary doesn’t see it as a possibility.

    I choose to fight against the corruption in any way I can. Yes, we all discussed Usherman on another blog too, and that was a waste of false hope. Wanting a recount, hoping they find at least a lead to the voter tampering we all know happened, isn’t a pipe dream.

    Trump is legally trying to stop all the recounts, so if Stein takes him on with the help of Dems, I am happy with that.

    Any stumbling block that is tossed in Dump’s path is good with me.

    This isn’t our first rodeo with Hillary, and rather than just accept what happened to her…and let it all go, I choose with full knowledge, not to do that. I haven’t given any money to Stein, don’t plan to. But I will be watching and hoping something revealing comes out of it.

  404. Trixta,what you said,couldn’t agree more. William,also a stellar post,nicely reasoned ,as usual,w/a nice layer of compassion.
    Grieving is a process and many of us are at different places in that process. Point is that in a democracy or even on a blog such us this,we need different voices at different times.
    Personally,I’ve missed Uppity’s voice this past week and appreciate both her knowledge and reality checks ( Oh ,and let us not forget the humor).
    For me,right now,I need a bit of hope,even if it’s from an unreliable ,self-motivated source..now that I know about Bill Palmer,I add a few cups of salt to the equation. I know I’ll be dealing w/the stark reality soon,but it’s the hope that gets me through the day,helps me to heal and gets me ready for the coming fight. Others do this differently and however you get to healing;that’s OK in my book..even if you have to do the despair or delusional thing for awhile.

    We all have our pre-battle rituals and processes. I think we’re all clear that the fight for our democracy is upon us;we’ll all find the hill we’re willing to die on. Still good to have our Uppity blog to vent, strategise,mourn,celebrate,laugh and,above all,learn.

  405. “[We] are not going to bow down to the likes of Donald Trump and his merry band of pirates.”

    You said it, cats! And that CNN poll was indeed awesome, Gray-Days! There are so many levels and many ways to protest now and in the years to come. I was heartened to hear (last week) that Pelosi plans to resist Trump and his Trumpanzees the way the Dems did when GWB tried tampering with Social Security, etc. Every little bit counts. The option of rolling over and providing this regime with a submissive audience is just a no go for me.

  406. I don’t blame Hillary for allegedly “not fighting”. She has given “the last full measure of devotion”, as far as I’m concerned. If we are hurting, think how she must feel.

  407. (Pm, I knew you couldn’t stay away.)

    Hey Cats, don’t dare me?! 😉 I don’t come cheap.

    Shadow, I never set up a Facebook account and never will. I realized it was an insider-outsider application from the get-go and bad news generally and didn’t want any part of it.

    There are lot of ideas for how to resist.

    Mine is this: start identifying things that didn’t work in this election for the intended purpose for promoting healthy democracy; analyze why they didn’t work and who the culprits are, people, systemic rules; and work toward a solution.

    some examples:

    1. Electoral college: didn’t work; popular vote not in sync with electoral votes.
    2. FBI compromised: Comey let loose; Hatch Act violated.
    3. Media Malpractice: CNN and their both sides attitude; not calling out lie as lies; treating things normal when they are far from being normal.
    4. Foreign influence: abundance of circumstantial (even from a layperson’s POV) evidence of Russian incursion: hacking, wikileaks, Russian agents in a candidate’s campaign; clandestine server in Trump Tower with covert channel to Russia.
    5. Unscrupulous candidate: no self-limitation or self-policing; no honor; unchallenged, treated as normal when nothing about him was normal.
    6. Social Media: main culprit for fake news Facebook and twitter (though twitter may have helped also).
    7. Extremist groups: given credibility by media and people instead of being treated as the pariahs they are.
    8. Voting rights: voter ID laws and suppression; Republican shenanigans in swing and other states on election day and polling.

    My first rule of thumb for fighting these mfers: most of us are civil people who like to play and fight by the rules but we can’t fight Trump like people civilly; be as ruthless (at least in words) as they deserve in calling them out. Show them up (for the fuckers they are).

  408. This is how to do it; one community, one town at a time. send the sewer rats back to the sewer.

  409. This is becoming a thing now…


  410. This is what happens when the fringe lunatics are made normal. And this happened today at a restaurant we know. Looks like no shooting but everybody ran and the police got him. This is what this election of the buffoon has wrought.

  411. This is the backstory about that restaurant I didn’t know. It is a family restaurant. See how fake news spread by Trump supporters (Flynn apparently tweeted this fake story one week before the election) can cause havoc for regular business. I hope this restaurant owner sues the heck out of Flynn/Jones and Facebook. This is sick.

  412. I don’t blame Hillary for allegedly “not fighting”. She has given “the last full measure of devotion”, as far as I’m concerned. If we are hurting, think how she must feel.

    I agree 100%. Didn’t mean to sound like I was blaming her. After all she has been subjected to for 25 years it is a miracle she is still standing at all much less running a presidential campaign, and doing a great job of it too. How much can one ask of one woman? It just seems to be a general democratic syndrome since Gore 2000 – Kerry not fighting, Obama, not just Hillary.

    In a way, I think I know how she feels. I was “Hillaried” myself years ago where I used to live and it is very damaging. I am better but still not where I would have been otherwise – I don’t know if I will ever be,

  413. What trixta said!
    What I want to add is this: would those of us who admire, respect and, yes, love Hillary Rodham Clinton really want her to enter the White House in these circumstances?
    The basket of deplorables who voted for Trump would be enraged and “inspired” to new heights of vitriol and violence.
    And they are armed to the teeth.
    HRC would have to exist in the most protected bubble ever and, by the way, she’d be blessed with a Republican Congress.
    Imagine the endless hearings and investigations.
    Yes, I know that she was willing to take this on (she’s a patriot, unlike almost any other), but could I ask her to carry that burden?
    No, I will find ways to resist, disparage and stymie President Loser and his cabinet of vipers, and I will self nurture, too.
    Hell, I’m sixty six years old.
    And my beloved Upps, I can adore you and miss you and still think you’re a pain in the ass ;).

  414. I saw Barbra Streisand last night..a strong woman and Hillary supporter. Still an amazing voice.

  415. Army Corps of Engineers has denied easement for the Dakota Pipeline. Hurray! (Gee, I hope that wasn’t fake news…)

  416. PM, in addition to immediate work on all the areas you list, I would add a long term project to it. There should be enough of the 65+ million to start getting on their city councils, county seats, education boards, state offices, etc and start building from the ground up like the republicans always have. You need influence in local areas to begin to make a difference nationally. Phase 2: build to state congresses, governorships, etc.
    Grass roots is not enough without some pine and oak trees scattered amongst the grasses. Pines to bend when needed and oaks to stay strong regardless, creeping up on the unsuspecting.
    I said it will take a couple of generations and I think working to correct the wrongs that have just been perpetrated, now, along with a longer term plan is what is needed, in my view, to move the pendulum in the other direction. Easy for me to say, I know.

  417. What has thrown me the most is that the EC is apparently going to elect a man who more and more each day has been shown to have serious Russian ties and commitments. He owes them millions. And no one in Congress cares? And it is no secret to anyone that several of his cabinet picks and many candidates are pro-Russian. Is this not a clue????

    Is there no one who can put a stop to this insanity before it happens? EC votes or no EC votes…this is the constitution at the highest risk for all our existence. Senators, where are you?

  418. As I continue to let go,one finger @ a time ( currently on my middle finger,:) ) I wonder if the members of the electoral college would be willing to refuse to vote until Trump released his tax returns? Remember that old saying about buying a pig in a poke? Well, he certainly resembles a pig ( taking a short break from my “not name calling” general rule) and I sure would like to poke him…repeatedly..w/sharp words and objects.

    Sometimes I think I’m too old to go through the changes and fights I’m going to have to go through the next few years;but not ready to just roll over,either. Guess I’ll go eat some protein to help me gear up.

  419. pm317,

    Thank you for reposting this site PM, I have put the link at the top of my list in my browser’s ‘News’ folder.

    These photos have raised my spirits more than anything since Nov 8th.

  420. Off discussion: Ryan, on 60 Minutes, just refused to answer Scott Pelley’s question on whether women would pay the same as men under their new insurance plan. He said it was more important to look at sickness level. And that people will be able to ‘buy’ whatever insurance they want.

    We have to stay alert to Ryan as well as Turnipp.

  421. And that people will be able to ‘buy’ whatever insurance they want.

    As long as they have enough money.

  422. Brassy Rebel, one of the only good things of the last couple of weeks, is that I think that Sanders has vastly overplayed his hand. Like the rabble-rousing officer who jumps in next to the body of the gallant slain commanding officer (just a metaphor!), and tries to act like the new de facto leader before anyone else can take over; he is wildly inappropriate. Trying to deal with the pain of Hillary’s “loss,” and then having to hear from this person virtually gloating over it, because he thinks it will make him the new leader of the opposition, is insulting and contemptible. His timing is completely off; he is so full of himself, that he thinks that people want to hear more of his self-serving, doctrinaire, and yes, Marxist, rhetoric.

    Strangely enough, today I was reading a little of Philip Roth’s novel, “I Married a Communist,” because I have been reading a few novels of Roth’s lately. And in the few pages I read, there is a scene in which Roth’s alter ego, an idealistic and impassioned teenager, argues in favor of voting for Henry Wallace in the 1948 election coming up. And his father, a devoted FDR supporter, strenuously tries to argue him out of it. He tells him that Wallace’s campaign has been seriously infiltrated by the Communist Party; that it is a wasted vote which will cost Truman the election; and that his son does not realize how awful it was under Harding, Coolidge, Hoover; what it feels like to have the soulless Republicans control the country; how they have no decency, nor any compassion for the average person. And it was wrenchingly obvious to realize how, 68 years later, a self-indulgent Marxist ideologue cost a wonderful FDR Democrat the election, by demonizing her as a plutocrat, and thus handed the country to someone a great deal worse than Thomas Dewey. If anyone is still foolish enough to listen to Sanders’ self-serving explanations and nostrums, and follow them, they will help make it impossible for Democrats to ever win again. Sanders was the unwitting dupe of the far Right, and he’s still being it. He is not fit to tie Hillary’s shoes.

  423. Pm and Gray-days, those are all great places to begin the long slog of resistance. I would also add that I’m not letting people who voted for the Orange Menace off the hook. Their whining about being labeled racists and white supremicists is pathetic and disingenuous. As Tess Rafferty said: ” [They] voted with the KKK.” There was no ambiguity about what Trump based his entire campaign on–xenophobia, racism, white nationalism, sexism and misogyny. His campaign was a means to an end, and all of his voters knew it and were complicit. They willingly joined in “Mak[ing] america hate again.” So, to those people who voted for him and who now claim they just wanted to lower their taxes or health insurance costs, or who wanted to stick it to the establishment man, I say BULL SHIT! You bought it. You own it.

  424. If anyone is checking for continuity errors, the son could not be a teenager, could he, because you had to be 21 to vote. So I guess he was 21 or so.

  425. Screech New post!

  426. I just want to say I wish you all the best, you have done so much for so many people all your life and will always be loved by many MRS. Clinton sending you hugs.

  427. Cannot get posts after Dec. 6 What to do? Have tried usual re entry. Nothing. Help

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